How God Works: The Science Behind Spirituality PRX

When it comes to how we treat other animals, humanity’s track record is spotty at best. Has it always been that way? And how do the beliefs we hold about animals shape how we treat them? Are they really as different from us as Western culture has long suggested?

Join Dave as he speaks with anthropologist Dave Aftandilian about how different religious traditions may play a role in influencing the way people relate to other animals, and with biologist turned wildlife filmmaker and writer Tom Mustill about what the latest advances in science are revealing about animals’ internal lives.


Dave Aftandilian is founding Director of the Human-Animal Relationships program at Texas Christian University, and the lead editor of the recently published Animals and Religion. Find out about his other publications and activities here. The storytellers Dave mentions during the episode are Mary Ulmer Chiltoskey and Basil Johnston. And the audio of Koyukon people talking about animals and hunting is from the excellent documentary series Make Prayers to the Raven, available on YouTube.

Tom Mustill is the author of How To Speak Whale: The Power and Wonder of Speaking To Animals. Find out more about his other work, including several films and a podcast, on his website. Thanks again to Tom for sharing his recordings of whale song with us for this episode.

For listeners interested in reading more about animal welfare, we recommend checking out Vox writer Kenny Torrella’s work. If you’re wondering where to donate to help reduce animal suffering, start here.

Also, here are two recent New York Times articles on topics related to this episode:


Scientists Find an ‘Alphabet’ in Whale Songs
How Do We Know What Animals Are Really Feeling?

Do you feel connected to nature’s rhythms and the peace that they provide? Are cooking, crafting, or other small daily rituals a form of spell work or spirituality for you? If you’re a witch, the answers are a definite yes.

Long in the shadows, Wicca and witchcraft are now on the rise. Join Dave as we explore what’s driving interest in these religions and dispel some of the stereotypes around them.  We’ll talk to Thorn Mooney, a Wiccan high priestess and religious studies scholar  about what it means to be a witch and why many people find it empowering, and with Hannah Hawthorn, one of the original WitchTokers, about her spiritual journey from Evangelical Christian to Pagan Witch, and how social media is shaping the practice of witchcraft today.

Thorn Mooney is the author of several books, including the forthcoming Witches Among Us: A Concise Guide to Contemporary Witchcraft and Wicca (Llewellyn, October 2024). Learn more about her practice and other writings on her website and YouTube channel.

Hannah Hawthorn has been sharing her practice online since 2020. Learn about her practice and find links to all her social media on her website. Find out about her book The Magick of Birthdays: Rituals, Spells, and Recipes for Honoring Your Solar Return,  here.

Ever heard of the Bartonian Metaphysical Society? How about the Druze? If you’re like most people, you probably haven’t. On this episode, we ask: What’s it like to be a member of a tiny religion in a world dominated by “Big God”?

From the early days of new religious movements to the precarious old age of ancient faiths, join Dave as we explore the unique experiences, joys and challenges of being one of the few rather than one of the many. We'll talk to sociologist Susan Jean Palmer about what religions are like when they're brand new, how they're born, and what it takes for them to grow. And we’ll talk to Zoroastrian Studies researcher Nazneen Engineer about the challenges of population decline and the enduring cultural legacy of her faith as its numbers dwindle.

Susan Jean Palmer is the author of eleven book-length sociological studies of new religious movements, including Aliens Adored: Rael’s New Religion, Moon Sisters, Krishna Mothers, Rajneesh Lovers and Storming Zion: Government Raids on Religious Communities. Find out more about her work here and learn about her research on children raised in minority religions here.

Nazneen Engineer was the first Postdoctoral Researcher at the Shapoorji Pallonji Institute of Zoroastrian Studies based at SOAS, University of London. Find out more about her work here, and learn about the survey of Zoroastrians she managed, Gen Z and Beyond: A Survey for Every Generation, here.

Religion is often about powerful beings coming down from the skies and humans yearning to go up to join them. Does that mean we can swap aliens in for God? More and more people seem to think so. In fact, many spiritually-minded people are looking to UFOs as opportunities to commune with enlightened alien teachers. Some believe they’re even aliens themselves, sent here to prepare us for a new age. But when religion gets mixed with conspiracy theory, things can sometimes take a darker turn.

Join Dave as he speaks with religious studies professor Diana Walsh Pasulka, about what belief in UFOs might share with other religions, and with anthropologist Susannah Crockford about how and why conspiracy theories are giving rise to a new spiritual movement.

Diana Walsh Pasulka is the author of Encounters: Experiences with Nonhuman Intelligence and  American Cosmic: UFOs, Religion, Technology. Find out more about her work on her website.

Susannah Crockford is the author of Ripples of the Universe: Spirituality in Sedona, Arizona, and the host of the new podcast Miss Information, a podcast about the ways online misinformation and conspiracy theories infiltrate wellness communities and conservative Christian spaces.

Also, be sure to check out Dave’s recent article in the Boston Globe on aliens as a new spiritual movement!

What makes a trip a pilgrimage? And why have people from across the globe made these treks for millennia? Is it the destination that makes these journeys so important to so many cultures? Or is it the community and meaning-making that happen along the way?  And how are people changed by the experience after they come home?

Join Dave as he talks with writer and New York Times contributor Aatish Taseer about what he saw last year when he went on pilgrimages into the hearts of three faiths. And with psychologist and leading pilgrimage scholar Heather Warfield, about how these treks, even in secular form, can improve mental health and wellbeing.

Aatish Taseer is the author of A Pilgrimage Year. Special thanks to Aatish for sharing recordings from his travels with us for use in today’s episode. Follow him on X @aatishtaseer and Instagram @aatishalitaseer.

Heather Warfield is a professor at Antioch University New England. Learn more about her work in the field of Pilgrimage Studies on her website.

Is religion a source of conflict, or a way to end it? From the tragic situation in the Middle East to rising Christian Nationalism in the US, it might seem the former. But for faiths that emphasize love, compassion, and forgiveness, might the latter also be true?

Join Dave as he talks with theologian Miroslav Volf about how religion blurs with political identity and violent ideologies, and why the answer to this problem might not be to remove religion from our lives and the public square, but to have more of it in both. And with anthropologist Benjamin Purzycki about how our views of what God wants can change in the face of conflict.

Miroslav Volf is a Professor of Theology at Yale Divinity School and the Director of the Yale Center for Faith & Culture. Learn more about his work here and check out his podcast For the Life of the World.

Benjamin Grant Purzycki is an Associate Professor in the Department of the Study of Religion at Aarhus University in Denmark. Learn more about his work here and here.