Humans of Martech Jon Taylor, Phil Gamache

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Angela Cirrone, Senior Director, Marketing Operations at Optimizely.
Summary: Angela brings a fresh perspective to marketing operations, a key theme throughout the conversation is curiosity and how it helps boost your confidence and be a key lego block to a successful career. What makes her a unique leader is her experience being part of over a dozen acquisitions which came with over a hundred platform migrations and integrations. She’s developed a framework for platform migrations and a knack for evaluating software and building a stack with martech minimization in mind. We also navigated the convergence of martech and analytics in MOPs and pondered whether MOPs should report into GTM?
About Angela
Angela started her career as a dental assistant before moving to academic advisory and then trying out dental salesShe moved over to marketing – playing social media and community roles for various companiesEventually she found her way into Marketing Ops at Skill-soft where she learned Marketo and got her certificationShe later freelanced at CS2She then joined a proposal automation software company that would later get acquired by Upland Software, a portfolio of 25+ cloud apps, where she would eventually get promoted to Director of Marketing OperationsShe later took on the role of Senior Director of Marketing Ops and Demand Gen at Sauce Labs, a continuous test and error solution where she transformed the Ops function for enhanced efficiency and alignment with sales and GTMToday she’s Senior Director of Marketing Operations at Optimizely, an enterprise digital experience platformBoosting Confidence by Embracing Curiosity
Angela reflects on her initial days at Optimizely, surrounded by experts in marketing operations. She didn't start out knowing all the answers. Instead, she focused on moving challenges forward, a method she credits for easing her entry into a field filled with experienced professionals. Angela quickly realized the power of not knowing everything but having the skills to find out.
She champions the idea of empowerment through curiosity within her team. This approach shifts the emphasis from having instant solutions to developing the ability to explore and tackle problems efficiently. Angela believes that when a marketer faces a new issue, the goal shouldn't be to solve it immediately but to start unraveling it bit by bit.
Angela suggests that anyone can build confidence by being inquisitive and resourceful. This means enhancing one’s skills in using tools like AI and Google, and tapping into a network of knowledgeable peers. This skillset turns daunting challenges into a series of smaller, more manageable tasks.
She openly shares her moments of doubt, reassuring us that even seasoned professionals feel uncertain at times. What matters is how they handle these moments—by seeking solutions and learning from the process.
Key takeaway: Angela's journey teaches us that true confidence in marketing operations comes from cultivating curiosity and resourcefulness. Marketers can future-proof their careers by learning to decompose complex issues and steadily work through them, which not only builds individual confidence but also enriches team dynamics.
The Challenges and Opportunities of Numerous Migrations and Integrations
When Angela joined Upland Software, she found herself right in the middle of a tidal wave of acquisitions—14 in total during her time there. Each of these mergers, including one with her former company Kubity, thrust her into a role that tested her skills and confidence. Her task was to merge different technologies and operational cultures into Upland’s existing framework, and in some cases she had just six months to make it happen. This period marked a significant leap in her career, filled with both challenges and substantial learning.
Angela's experience at Upland was filled with managing logistics but it also presen

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Andrea Lechner-Becker, mostly retired CMO and Novelist.
Summary: Andrea takes us on a wild ride filled with nuggets of wisdom, a few f-bombs and tons of laughs as she unpacks her deep understanding of marketing. Together, we explore how storytelling breathes life into content and why true enthusiasm for a product can transform marketing strategies. We navigate the crucial skills of recognizing patterns and forming strategic partnerships with finance departments. Andrea also sheds light on how flawed attribution methods can lead marketers to do dumb things, why investing in branding from the outset is table stakes and why marketers have what it takes to be outstanding martech sales reps.
About Andrea
Andrea started her career in martech as a database marketing coordinator at the Phoenix Suns NBA basketball team She later joined a 2-year old marketing automation consultancy called LeadMD. She would quickly get promoted to Principal, VP - Marketing Service and later CMO when the company was acquired by another agency and rebranded as Shift ParadigmThrough the consultancy, Andrea’s helped huge brands like Adobe, Atlassian, Drift, TealiumShe also ran marketing at Toolio before leaving her successful career as a marketing exec and going back to her entrepreneurial routes creating uncommonly good contentShe’s the Co-Host of OWNED podcast by AudiencePlusShe wrote the Practical Guide to B2B Event SponsorshipShe’s also written an intensely emotional and powerful fiction story called Sixty Days LeftThe Impact of Fiction on Real-World Issues
Andrea’s insight into the world of writing and fiction is both refreshing and straightforward. She starts by debunking the myth of the "aspiring" writer—declaring that anyone who writes is indeed a writer. This simple yet powerful affirmation encourages daily writing as a practice, not just a hobby, and stresses that writing is accessible to everyone, regardless of their goals.
The creation of her novel, Willow, stems from her fascination with America’s Death with Dignity laws, a subject she finds both philosophically intriguing and politically complex. These laws allow terminally ill patients to end their lives under medical supervision, a right given more commonly to animals than to humans. Andrea's story sheds light on this contentious issue by weaving it into the fabric of her characters’ lives, making it more approachable and understandable.
Through Willow, Andrea not only educates her readers about a delicate topic but also challenges them to rethink their positions. She shares feedback from readers who have shifted from staunch opposition to a more supportive stance—or at least to a reconsideration of their views—after connecting with her characters' journeys.
Key takeaway: Fiction isn't just for entertainment; it can be a formidable ally in influencing public opinion and sparking debate on critical social issues. For marketers, Andrea's approach underscores the effectiveness of storytelling as a means to connect with audiences on a deeper level. By embracing narratives that reflect real-world challenges, marketers can create campaigns that resonate more profoundly with their audience, encouraging both engagement and reflection.
How to Create More Compelling Content and Messaging
Andrea emphasizes the importance of going back to the basics in marketing, focusing on genuine human connections rather than overused jargon and AI-powered embellishments. She critiques the current state of B2B marketing, noting that many companies sound alike because they fail to make an effort to stand out. Drawing from Maslow's hierarchy of needs, Andrea highlights how understanding basic human motivations can enhance marketing strategies. She believes that businesses often overlook the importance of connecting on a personal level with customers, colleagues, and bosses.
Her experiences at networking events reveal a lack of ge

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Emily Kramer, Co-Founder at MKT1.
Summary: Emily explored the convergence of marketing, investment, and startup growth, delivering actionable insights for marketers, founders, and investors. When picking future unicorns, she attributed timing and luck but stressed the importance of selecting startups that value marketing and whose products meet real needs in growing markets. Emily advocated for rigor in selecting martech tools that align with business goals, enhancing efficiency without compromising content quality. She also highlighted the need for "pie-shaped" marketers in startups, professionals who combine deep expertise in at least 2 areas like growth and product marketing, but also with a broad foundation. Additionally, Emily underscored the value of leveraging marketing skills in angel investing and internal advocacy, enhancing both startup viability and internal team alignment.
About Emily
Emily started her career in Media planning at Ad agencies in SanFran and also had a stint in growing a programmatic ad platformShe went back to school to complete an MBA at Harvard and joined Salesforce as a Product Marketing MBA intern before later joining a startup called Ticketfly as an early marketing team member Emily then made the mega move to Asana as Head of Marketing as the 35th employee where she built and scaled the marketing team from 1 to 25 in less than 4 yearsShe moved on to an email app startup called Astro Technologies as VP of Marketing where she led the company to Series A funding and won the esteemed ProductHunt Golden Kitty award for mobile app of the year in 2017 - this startup looked a lot like the AI productivity apps popping up today, a few years too early.Emily then joined Carta as VP of Marketing where she grew the team from 2 to 30 and sat on the exec team and reported directly to the CEO. While there she co-authored a ‘gender gap in equity’ study which was featured in over 50 publicationsEmily then kickstarted her entrepreneurial path and started dabbling in Angel investing. She took First Round’s Angel Track which helped turn her investing hobby into a new career where she’s now invested in over 50 companies as an angel investorShe joined Empower Work as a Board Member, an NPO providing text support for vulnerable workers facing challenging work situationsIn October 2020, Emily made the plunge and launched (market-1) MKT1 with her co-founder Kathleen, initially as an advisory business, then as a newsletter and community aimed at helping founders and marketers scale their teams and later as a Capital fund helping early-stage B2B startups.The Secret to Picking Future Unicorn Startups
Emily shared her journey through the startup world, sprinkled with good timing and fortunate circumstances. She entered business school just after the 2008 financial crash, a tumultuous time that surprisingly set her up for success in the entrepreneurial realm. By the time she re-entered the workforce, the economy was bouncing back, providing a fertile ground for new ventures. Her departure from startups came just before the COVID-19 pandemic, sparing her from the subsequent turmoil many companies faced.
Her method for evaluating potential startups has evolved but is based on a simple principle: the importance of a solid product that the target audience would endorse, even if they wouldn't use it themselves. Emily stresses the need for a product to be compelling to those it aims to serve, a criterion often overlooked by non-marketers. A great market and a capable team are also on her checklist, but a unique selling point for Emily is the company's marketing strategy. She looks for what she now calls "marketing advantages," such as a unique story, SEO potential, or network effects that could give a company an edge.
Emily's first startup job was driven by her love for music, working at Ticketfly, where she was immersed in the scene she adored. Thi

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Anthony Lamot 🐧, CEO and Co-Founder at DESelect.
Summary: From early stage founder advice and keeping up with the galaxy of martech tools to email fatigue and AI’s convergence with neuroscience, this episode journeys through deep marketing space. Anthony gives us practical advice for tracking martech trends but also keeping the timeless fundamentals in mind. We take a pit stop in email marketing land discussing true personalization, engagement tactics without overwhelming users, and if we’re really ready to give the wheel to AI (spoiler, we’re not). We also explored innovative uses of ChatGPT, the speculative future of AI and neuroscience and how to thoughtfully integrate AI into your product.
About Anthony
Anthony started his career as a CRM consultant at Deloitte Belgium where he got his first taste of SFDCHe moved over to Waeg (wahg) as a business & tech consultant where he continued advising companies on CRM but also started expanding to martechHe later joined 4C as a Lead Consultant for Marketing AutomationHe took a turn in-house on a 1 year contract as Marketing Automation Lead at Toyota Europe where he rolled out SFMCDuring his consulting years, Anthony teamed up with his friend Jonathan where they met at Deloitte and they each started three startups from scratch, of which the first one was togetherIn 2019, Anthony and his co-founder went all in on their 4th startup; DESelect  Today, over 1000 organizations use the marketing optimization platform, including T-Mobile, Volvo and Cornell University and many moreTaking the Entrepreneurial Plunge
Anthony was asked about what steps should be taken by those looking to start their own business, and his advice was nothing short of bold: drop everything else and dive in. He likens this to a dramatic moment from history—imagine being at the siege of Troy where the commander torches your only ride home. It's a vivid picture of commitment; there's no going back, so you might as well give this fight everything you've got. This total commitment, Anthony argues, is crucial because it keeps you sharp and wholly focused on your venture.
He openly admits that feeling 100% sure of yourself all the time isn't realistic. Doubts creep in, and that's normal. But, Anthony believes in a kind of all-or-nothing approach. It's either you make it, or you don't, and while this sounds stark, it simplifies many decisions and helps keep your spirits up. According to him, being an entrepreneur is about pushing past your comfort zone and constantly dealing with the discomfort of uncertainty.
Confidence does more than just keep you moving forward; it's also a beacon for others. When you believe deeply in what you're doing, it shows, and that energy is magnetic. It attracts the right kind of people to your team—those who are not just skilled but who also share your passion and drive.
Key takeaway: Dive deep into your entrepreneurial journey with no backups to distract you. This level of commitment sharpens focus and fosters a necessary resilience that not only propels you forward but also draws in a team as dedicated as you are. This combined momentum is often what turns startup dreams into reality.
Validating Business Ideas Before Coding
Anthony shares a refreshing take on starting a new venture, underscoring the significance of validating an idea before plunging into development. He suggests selling the concept before writing a single line of code, a strategy that contrasts sharply with the more traditional path of product development. This approach involves interacting directly with potential customers to gauge interest and gather feedback, which is crucial for shaping the product in its earliest stages.
Drawing from his own entrepreneurial journey with a previous venture, Anthony recalls the pivotal moment he identified a real problem to solve. This insight didn't come from brainstorming in isolation but from his o

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Maja Voje, Founder of Growth Labs and the Author of GTM Strategist.
Summary: This episode with Maja is a playbook for startup marketers, growth advisors, early stage founders and anyone curious about go-to-market strategies. We untangle the most popular questions about growing early stage startups, from picking the right early channels and leveraging qualitative insights, to uncovering the limitations of willingness to pay and locking down the moving target of product market fit. We also cover how to overcome biases, leverage intuition and simplify all things go-to-market.
About Maja
Maja started her career bouncing from government consulting, journalist intern and Program Manager rolesShe then kickstarted her entrepreneurial journey and launched Growth Lab, an early version of her consultancy where she moonlighted as a consultantShe worked at Google on Speech Ops, where she led a team of 9 on a globally coordinated technology development projectShe later worked for various startups across London and Brussels; leading marketing, comms and growth strategy She then worked remotely for a web3 blockchain startup based in Hong Kong and took on the role of CMO where she raised over 20M in growth capital and attracted 16,000 early adopters She’s a mentor at the Swiss Entrepreneurship ProgramShe’s the author of GTM Strategist, a comprehensive guide on launching a new product and gaining PMFToday she’s doubled down on her consultancy Growth Lab where she’s worked with brands like Heineken, Bayer, Miro and ProductLed. She’s also taught Growth principles to more than 50,000 students around the world including employees from Tesla, Apple, Deloitte, Adidas…Maja, what a wild and amazing journey, thanks so much for your time today.
What CMOs and Growth Advisors of the Future Should be Doing Today
Maja shares straightforward advice for those setting their sights on a Chief Marketing Officer or growth advisor role: stick with it. Jumping from one project to another without fully engaging in the entire lifecycle—from planning to execution to scaling—might seem dynamic, but it lacks the depth that comes from true commitment. She believes that the real insight into marketing leadership springs from not just launching a product but also from nurturing it and watching it grow to a stage where it can be replicated efficiently and effectively.
During the interview, Maja described what she calls a "speed learning period." This intense phase of hard work, though daunting, is invaluable. Here, you're not just working; you're absorbing through active participation. It's a time filled with late nights, teamwork, and, yes, lots of pizza and energy drinks. It's about making the most out of the resources around you—mentors, colleagues, and the safety net of not yet playing with your own money.
Maja also touched on the psychological barriers like imposter syndrome that can stunt growth. Her advice? Push past those doubts. Success breeds confidence, and with each win, the blueprint for repeating those successes becomes clearer and more intuitive. She advocates for a mix-and-match approach to professional roles: try a bit of mentoring here, some part-time consulting there, and see what suits you best.
She’s passionate about remaining relevant and adaptive in the fast-paced marketing world. For Maja, it’s not just about keeping up; it’s about continuously applying what works on a larger scale and helping more people with those proven strategies. This excitement for her work shines through when she talks about scaling what works and bringing more value to more clients.
Key takeaway: To really prepare for a CMO role, immerse yourself completely in projects and embrace the learning that comes with each phase. Avoid hopping too quickly from one opportunity to the next without reaping the full benefits of your experiences. Stay versatile, stay engaged, and remember, ad

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Adam Greco, Field CTO / Product Evangelist at Amplitude.
Summary: Adam is a leading voice in digital analytics and he unpacks event-based analytics and how it’s transformed how marketers interact with data. Data tools are complicating the martech landscape with overlapping functionality and confusing terminology so Adam breaks down the nuanced difference between product analytics, customer data infrastructure and ETL. Adam also walks us through how his team combines marketing, product, and experience analytics getting a fuller view that informs smarter, more effective strategies. We also cover the shift to interactive dashboards as well as warehouse native martech and what it means for marketers. Marketers need to work closely with data teams to ensure these new tools are practical without being overwhelmingly complex, allowing them to lead confidently in their industries.
About Adam
Adam is one of the leading voices in digital analyticsHe’s managed marketing and customer success teams at enterprise companies and consulting firmsHe’s been Senior Director of Marketing and Analytics at Salesforce He spent nearly a decade as a Senior Partner at one of the best-known analytics consultancies in Analytics Demystified where he’s advised hundreds of organizations on analytics best practicesHe’s been a Board Advisor at various well-known startups, analytics associations, capital funds and universities He’s authored over 300 blogs and one book related to analyticsHe’s a frequent speaker at big-name analytics conferencesToday he’s Field CTO at Amplitude, where he focuses on providing content, education, and strategic advice on how to build better productsUnderstanding Event Based Analytics
Adam unpacks the shift towards event-based analytics, a concept that may seem confusing to those accustomed to traditional digital analytics. He explains that back when the internet was simpler and mostly about websites, tracking was straightforward: look at pageviews and sessions and hope for conversions. But as technology evolved—think smartphones and apps—the old methods became less effective.
Mobile apps changed the game. Interactions on these platforms are brief and frequent, shifting the focus from long sessions to brief, meaningful interactions, each marked as an event. Adam points out that his company, Amplitude, was at the forefront of adopting this approach, realizing that tracking every tap and swipe gave a clearer picture of user engagement than the traditional methods.
As both websites and apps became integral to user experience, the analytics field faced a choice: stick with the old or adapt to the new. The answer was overwhelmingly in favor of event-based analytics. Major players like Google and Adobe redefined sessions as just another event, creating a unified model that could track interactions across platforms, be they digital or physical, like visiting a store or calling customer support.
This evolution means marketers can now see a fuller, more dynamic view of how users engage across different platforms. Understanding that a session is a collection of events, rather than a fixed time slot, offers a richer, more nuanced understanding of user behavior.
Key takeaway: Embracing event-based analytics allows marketers to capture the full spectrum of customer interactions, offering a granular view that is vital for crafting targeted, effective marketing strategies. This approach not only keeps pace with the evolving tech landscape but also provides the insights needed to enhance customer engagement and satisfaction.
Product Analytics vs Customer Data Infrastructure vs ETL
Adam explains the evolving landscape of martech tools, focusing on how they intersect and differ, simplifying a topic that can be quite bewildering for even experienced marketers. Initially, the task for marketers was to employ simple tools provided by companies like Google or