Management Caf‪é‬ Virtual not Distant

This marks the first of our series on manager emotions, where we discuss some of feelings we experience at work.

Anger is one of the more complex emotions for a manager to navigate. Anger is about a perceived wrong and our desire to find a resolution. On the one hand, anger can be energising and act as a powerful catalyst for change. It shows us, and others, what is important to us.

But when expressed inappropriately anger can be a destructive force. Many people are uncomfortable being exposed to anger and when we show we're angry at work we can run the risk of reduced connection and collaboration. And so much of this is tied to our own experiences and history and interpretations... one person's "slightly frustrated" might be another person's "rage and fury". Being able to express our difficult emotions in productive ways is one of the hallmarks of psychological safety and a high trust work environment.

To quote Aristotle: "Anybody can become angry; that is easy. But to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way—that is not within everybody’s power and is not easy."


01:30 mins Definitions of anger and how different authors talk about it. We share definitions of anger from the "Emotion Thesaurus" by Becca Puiglisi & Angela Ackerman, the American Psychological Association and Claude AI. All of which highlight that anger comes from experiencing a perceived wrong or injustice.

3:00 Anger is sometimes a masking emotion disguising someone's true emotional state, for example protecting them from more vulnerable feelings like fear, sadness or shame. Anger can even be a defensive stance - in their book Big Feelings, Liz Fosslien & Mollie West Duffy share a quote from David Kessler that "Anger is pain's bodyguard".

4:50 Anger tells us that there is something we have to pay attention to. It's important to listen to as opposed to being controlled by your anger.

5:30 Many people feel the need to suppress their anger. There can be a lot of judgement about feeling angry or expressing anger. Tim knows people who never express anger, even when he knows that they have experienced injustice. But there are also so many examples of harmful expressions of anger.

6:30 What does anger look and feel like? Some of the ways we can see anger show up in a work context include: irritability, poor listening skills, jumping to conclusions, irrational reactions to inconsequential things, demanding immediate action, impetuosity, taking inappropriate action or risks. And these don't just show we are angry - in many ways they are also affecting how we interact with others.

7:30 Within ourselves we can feel hot, tense, fuzzy, shallow or fast breathing. It can really take hold of us.

8:00 Tim shares an example of when a friend demonstrated anger as a mask for embarrassment or shame.

9:15 Anger exists on a spectrum. It isn't always expressed so strongly that it takes over.

9:50 Anger can be helpful because it helps us understand what is important and it motivates us to take action. It can give us a way to express negative emotions.

11:50 Pilar has had to learn to moderate how she expresses anger, or behaving in ways that might be interpreted as anger, because it makes people uncomfortable. But we also can't bottle it up and then have it all come out. And sometimes to demonstrate that we are upset is more effective than telling people we're upset.

15:15 Tim's experience has been a bit different. He felt better about expressing his anger, but realised it was making other people feel worse. So he has to be careful. He might think he's giving a mild expression of anger but it can be interpreted very differently by someone else.

16:50 Tim talks about a time when just saying that he was feeling angry helped him feel less angry. This served him better in this situation than his customary angry response.

18:50 For Pila

Join our hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti.

Most of us are familiar with avoiding a task that we should be doing. But is there more to it? On the one hand we worry that procrastination leads us to being totally unproductive. But is being hyper-efficient realistic? Don't we sometimes need to break the cycle of busywork? Procrastination might actually be telling us something important about the task and ourselves.

Managers might find themselves rescheduling a difficult conversation or delaying a decision. It can be helpful to dig into the reasons why. Is it a task that we just don't feel like doing? Has the task become boring through constant repetition? Do we need something more (e.g. context, support, perspective, data, etc) before we are ready to tackle it?

This is a difficult thing to self-analyse because we are so good at hiding things from ourselves. And this is where managers might be uniquely placed to help their teams. If we become curious when we see someone procrastinating, we might help them understand why they are stuck. And help them make better decisions about what to do next.

00:00 mins Tim is less prone to procrastination as a manager than he was as an individual contributor, mostly because he feels guilty. Similarly Pilar will always prioritise work that someone else is dependent on over work that is "just for her".

2:00 Tim admits that he sometimes procrastinates because he doesn't want to be seen to be too responsive.

3:40 Pilar sometimes schedules a delayed email response so that people don't get used to an immediate answer from her. Tim classifies this as getting your computer to do the procrastination for you!

5:00 Procrastination can also happen when we are starting something but haven't yet gotten into the flow of the task.

5:50 Pilar shares a time when a team-mate's procrastination was just the symptom to a bigger issue.

7:15 The paradox of choice (or decision paralysis) is an issue for Tim, most notably shown via his inability to tackle his inbox. But as a manager much more of the work is happening real time - for example in meetings - which forced him to become more efficient.

10:00 It's harder to procrastinate work that has visible impact, like preparing for a meeting, versus tasks like responding to an email which has a lower "procrastination penalty".

11:00 Pilar wrote a book called "The Remote Workers Guide to Time Management" and it has a whole chapter on procrastination. One of the things she realised in writing the book is that she procrastinates by coming up with more work for herself. And this might be because most of her work now is self-directed. Whereas back in the theatre company when there was one production at a time with many people depending on it, she was less prone to distraction.

12:45 In a perfect example of brains telling us only what we want to hear, Tim relates how delaying tasks has often lead to improved outcomes for him.

14:15 There are so many reasons why we delay. In might be discomfort, boredom, overwhelm or a sense of not feeling ready. If we take time to understand why we are procrastinating then it can help us make better choices about how to deal with it.

16:15 We can apply this same curiosity to our team. And this can be a great benefit. Our team struggle to self-analyse just like we do, so as a manager we have an opportunity to gently and safely help people identify when they are procrastinating and if there is a bigger issue behind it.

17:30 Pilar is reminded of the book "Hidden Potential" by Adam Grant which introduced the concept of deliberate play. Taking a different approach to a task so that it gives you a different experience. When Pilar is stuck whilst writing she will sometimes use a generative AI bot to clarify her thoughts or spark a new idea. She's still working on her project but tackling it from a different angle. Tim agrees this is a great approach towards overcoming procrastination.

20

A theme we keep coming back to in the Management Café is the importance of context. In each situation there are many variables that influence what happens. For example the company culture, our manager, our team, the particular task and our own capability.

Sometimes we have to accept that the current context is not good one for us and we're not going to perform at our best. This can be hard to reconcile, many of us have an expectation that we can handle all challenges.

But this realisation, that the context isn't right for us, also brings opportunity. The opportunity to be patient and understanding of ourselves (or others). The opportunity to change the context. Or the opportunity to save ourselves the wasted effort and pain from trying something that will never succeed in that context.

So... how do you identify the context that works for you? And can we make progress even from the situations which don't work? Join hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti for coffee and find out!


00:15 mins In episode #74 Pilar shared a story of how a change of context, in this case working with a different team, improved her performance delivering training.

3:30 Acknowledging that the context isn't right for us can open the door to trying something different.

4:30 Tim had an experience recently with a colleague who decided that the organisational culture wasn't a good match. And so they made the decision to leave. This freed the person, and the organisation, to move forward. Pilar references Laszlo Bock's book "Work Rules" and how he incorporated this into the culture at Google. If someone wasn't performing well, then you could work with them directly but also change the context - maybe a different part of the organisation. Or maybe they were best suited to a different organisation.

6:25 Unfortunately companies and employees can sometimes misrepresent or misinterpret their preferred context during the hiring process. Ideally we'd be aware of what environments work best for us and aim for companies and roles that can accommodate us.

7:45 Things can also be quite different to how they appear on the surface. Pilar talks about a case study of a distributed company with a very flat leadership structure. However this organisation had an unofficial hierarchy and a founder dynamic that meant employees struggled to be heard.

10:00 How to identify the context that works for you? It's a big question, especially early in your career. Tim suggests that even a process of elimination, a trial and error process of identifying what doesn't work, is still good progress.

11:15 This is hard to recognise in the moment. But with hindsight we can make sense of what was or wasn't helpful to us.

12:50 We can save ourselves a lot of pain and wasted effort by understanding what will and won't succeed within our context. Pilar shares an anecdote of someone who tried to apply a productivity initiative within an organisation only to violate a cultural norm. This can be one of the big indicators that a context isn't right, when our vision of change is vastly different to the organisation's. We might need to find a new place to work!

16:20 Tim remembers a time when he badly misread the culture of his workplace because his manager had done such a great job of shielding him. A painful lesson which resulted in him being out of a job within 6 weeks of his manager leaving.

17:30 Nini Fritz of The Work Happiness Project shared something that helps her identify when it's worth applying efforts to bring about organisational change. When we see people share our desire for the outcome but they are struggling with implementation, we have the best chance to improve the context.

What about you, dear listener? Is this something you think about? How can you tell when the context is right or wrong for you? We'd love to hear from you!
Get in touch through our Contact Form https://managementcafepodcast.com/contact/ 

 

Step into the Management Café with your hosts Tim Burgess and Pilar Orti. 

This conversation was inspired by an article Pilar read in Organizational Dynamics: "How managers can help employees navigate tough decisions without burning out by Andrew Molinsky and Laura Noval. They describe a specific type of burnout, that which arises from having to continuously perform challenging tasks. This is different from the burnout that comes from chronic overwork or being under prolonged stress.

And it requires different solutions. An employee might have a low overall workload, might be exercising and getting enough sleep and ticking all the boxes for managing "overwork burnout". Yet these if they are required to perform challenging tasks beyond their capacity to cope... they will burn out. So how can we support employees in this situation? The article's authors propose several ways organisations can help employees prepare, carry out and recover from challenging tasks.

Managers play a key role in guiding employees through difficult work. Firstly in recognising that a particular task is a "necessary evil" and will take a toll on the person who performs it. Then by acknowledging this impact to the employee and supporting them. This can reduce the emotional burden on the employee and help them avoid burnout.

01:45 mins The article talks about the type of burnout that comes when the employee is required to do things that are particularly challenging. The authors call these tasks "necessary evils". To quote directly from the article "Burnout happens when an employee continuously performs tasks that cause emotional, material or physical harm to another person (also known as ‘necessary evils’). Disciplining others or delivering bad news are examples of necessary evils. It requires an employee to be focused and self-controlled, which at times can cause significant stress and impaired task performance."

4:20 One of the examples of a "necessary evil" task comes from an employee in a drug recovery programme who is required to remove someone from the programme because they violated the rules. This is a tough decision but, in a way, it is the right thing to do. It's easy to see how performing this task would take it's toll on the employee, particularly if the task must be done regularly or without support.

5:00 Pilar shares a story of someone working at an educational institution where their role requires them to tell students that they need to pay for an additional service. And the students can have a big, emotional reaction. If the employee has to deal with this situation repeatedly, it will lead to burnout.

6:30 With this type of burnout you might not have a large overall volume of work, you might be getting enough sleep and doing all the right things. But too much of the necessary evils still leads to burnout.

7:00 The article lists two types of challenging tasks. A competence challenge is a task which is technically challenging - requiring the employee to work at or beyond their capability. A character challenge conflicts with their sense of who they are as a person. Tim would add a third element of capacity. An employee might be able to have one challenging conversation each day, but not have the capacity to do ten of those conversations. And Pilar adds another dimension of expectation: sometimes we can get overloaded even when the volume is not that high, but our expectations turn it into overwhelm.

8:15 It can be good to go into a competency or capacity challenge as long as it isn't for a sustained period. Tim shares a story about challenging work at Shield GEO. They asked a simple question at the end of each day to a team that was under stress:

"Could you do another day like this tomorrow?"

Asking this simple question was much less intrusive than a time and motion study. People's answers helped identify what tasks were causing overload - but they also helped people understand that they were

A short bonus episode to let you know what's brewing in the Management Café.

In about a month, we'll be starting a new series, on manager emotions.
In each episode, we'll dive into a specific emotion, discussing what it feels like, its purpose, and how it can help or hinder us as managers.
Our recent episode on regret resonated with listeners, and we both enjoyed it very much! It highlighted the importance of discussing emotions as a manager and how they shape our management practices. So we've decided to cover some other feelings and emotions. 
Throughout the series, we'll share our own experiences and those shared with us by others. We'll explore not only the manager's experience of each emotion but also their experience of employees who are going through those emotions. When you think about emotional contagion and the impact of being around someone experiencing a particular emotional reaction, you can see how there will be plenty to get our teeth into. 
Some of the emotions we plan to cover include:
- Overwhelm
- Disconnection
- Hopelessness
- Anger
- Confusion
- Joy
- Compassion
We'd love to hear from you, listeners!

If you have any stories, thoughts, or insights related to these emotions or any other emotions you think would make for an interesting episode, please share them with us. You can reach out via email at managementcafepodcast[at]gmail.com or through the contact form on our website, managementcafepodcast.com.
Additionally, if you come across any books, articles, or resources that you believe would contribute to the series, please let us know. 
Look out for the Manager Emotion Series, where we'll take a deeper look at the human side of management and explore how emotions shape our experiences as managers and leaders.

Until then, coffee's over for us, now it's over to you! 

Our hosts in the Management Café believe that everyone has the potential to be better at something. And for them, as for many of us, helping someone grow is one of the most rewarding aspects of being a manager. Similarly for employees it's a wonderful feeling to have a manager who believes in us, gives us opportunities to improve and offers their support.

However it's important for managers to recognise that not everyone wants to get better right now. Perhaps they are finding their self-actualisation outside of work. Perhaps they don't currently have the bandwidth for growth because they have too much going on inside or outside of work.

As always context is important. The person needs to be open to growth (Pro Tip - ask them!!). And it helps if the role or organisation provides appropriate opportunities for growth. But even outside their immediate role we can often find meaningful ways to help someone if we take a broad enough view of the person and their goals.

00:30 mins In his book Work Rules, Laszlo Bock talks about acknowledging that sometimes people aren't in the right context to fulfil their potential. And in that situation, the organisation might best help the person by putting them into a different context. That might be working with a different team or role. Or even moving to a job at another company.

3:40 Our hosts believe that everyone has the potential to do better at something.

4:20 Pilar shares her mixed experiences of offering people the chance to take on different roles within her theatre company. Some people were not ready to take on a new opportunity.

5:30 For Tim there is a thrill that comes from watching people get better at something, even if he is only marginally involved. And giving people the opportunity to develop in a role is something that he has, at times, prioritised over the needs of the team or the business. He doesn't regret many of these decisions.

7:10 We might also choose to develop a person because we don't want to have to find someone else to do it. So is it about developing them? Or is it about you?

8:30 One of the ways Tim has rationalised his approach is that even when investing in someone's development has not shown the desired result, there is still some benefit from showing other employees that the company values giving staff the chance to develop.

9:15 Managers can position these as bets or experiments. Tim has had some difficulties with this. As the manager it was easy for him to view it as a bet. But for the person taking the opportunity it was difficult to manage their expectations.

11:00 Pilar views this as a great attitude of a learning culture. Managers will give people opportunities even when the outcome is uncertain. People are willing to go out of their comfort zone to try something. And even if the person fails on their attempt it doesn't mean that all their other contributions are erased or that they are out of a job.

12:35 Tim had a period at Shield GEO where he hired mostly early career folks and enjoyed watching them flourish. Later when the business started hiring more experienced people who wanted stability in their role and career, Tim struggled to adjust. He couldn't quite kick the urge to grow people.

14:45 Tim found the Russ Laraway 3 Career Conversations model to be very helpful. By understanding the person's past and their dreams for the future, you are better able to help them in the present.

16:40 On the 21st Century Work Life podcast Pilar recently interviewed a large creative agency who built a solution to help companies better understand people's potential and interests. This software gives people a space to talk about their skills and interests outside their direct job role.

18:00 This is similar to the experience Tim had with Bree Caggiati. Bree's role as a journalist at Shield GEO was predominantly creating written content but Tim was aware Bree had done some podcasting with a friend. When the