Red People, Blue People: It's Not So Black and White BAM Radio Network

Twitter chats sparked the connected educator movement and gave many educators support and a voice. But Twitter gave a megaphone to all voices and movements raising questions about free speech and the limits of what we should be able to say on social media. It turns out that free speech is not as free as many of us believe, and though we have the right to speak, we don’t have a right to be heard. These are two of several discoveries we found among our misunderstandings about our freedom to say what we want, any way we want. Listen to this thoughtful and informed conversation about what’s changing at Twitter and why it matters now that Elon Musk bought the social media platform that many educators rely on for informal professional learning.

Follow on Twitter: @Eric_Heinze @SuzanneNossel @jonharper70bd @bamradionetwork

Eric Heinze (Maîtrise, Paris; JD, Harvard; Ph.D. Leiden), a former Fulbright, DAAD and Chateaubriand fellow, is Professor of Law and Humanities at Queen Mary, University of London. He writes on justice theory and on human rights, and has worked with the International Commission of Jurists and the UN Sub-Commission on Human Rights in Geneva. He has advised NGOs on human rights, including Liberty, Amnesty International and the Media Diversity Institute. Heinze is author of The Most Human Right: Why Free Speech Is Everything.

Suzanne Nossel is the CEO of PEN America, the foremost organization working to protect and advance human rights, free expression and literature. She has also served as the Chief Operating Officer of Human Rights Watch and as Executive Director of Amnesty International USA; and held senior State Department positions in the Clinton and Obama administrations. A graduate of Harvard College and Harvard Law School, Nossel frequently writes op-eds for the New York Times, the Washington Post, and other publications, as well as a regular column for Foreign Policy magazine. She lives in New York City. Nosssel is author of Dare to Speak: Defending Free Speech for All.

Jonathan Zimmerman is the Judy and Howard Berkowitz Professor in Education at the University of Pennsylvania. A former Peace Corps volunteer, he is the author of Campus Politics: What Everyone Needs to Know and seven other books. He is also a frequent op-ed contributor to The New York Times, the Washington Post, and other national newspapers and magazines. Zimmerman received the 2019 Open Inquiry Leadership Award from Heterodox Academy, which promotes viewpoint diversity in higher education. Zimmerman is author of Free Speech: And Why You Should Give a Damn.

We invited the authors of three books written to teach us how to talk with people we disagree with on just about everything. Each shared with us their framework for navigating difficult discussions with difficult people in school, at work, and in life. This episode is the first in a series aimed and learning how to talk about those sensitive social, cultural, and civic issues we simply can’t ignore. This informed and candid discussion left us with a roadmap for the episodes ahead on everything from mask mandates, to transgender issues, race relations, growing incivility, and threats to our democracy.

Episode Guests
Dr. Judith L. Pace is a Professor in the Teacher Education Department at the University of San Francisco’s School of Education. She is a qualitative researcher who examines classroom teaching and curriculum — focusing on social studies — and its relationship to diversity, democracy, and sociopolitical contexts. She has studied classroom authority relationships and academic engagement, teaching for democratic citizenship in government classes, social studies under high stakes accountability, and teacher preparation for teaching controversial issues. Her last study was conducted in Northern Ireland, England, and the Midwestern U.S., and she is fascinated by curriculum and teaching in politically divided and post-conflict societies.

Prior to USF, Dr. Pace worked at Project Zero at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she earned her doctorate. She worked with teachers, school leaders, and researchers on project-based learning, portfolio assessment, teaching for understanding, and comprehensive school reform. Before that, she taught in special education, progressive, and middle school programs in Boston area schools.

Dr. Tania Israel is a Professor of Counseling Psychology at the University of California, Santa Barbara and a Fellow of the American Psychological Association. Dr. Israel’s award-winning book, Beyond Your Bubble: How to Connect Across the Political Divide, Skills and Strategies for Conversations That Work (APA, 2020) grew out of the skill-building workshop that she developed and delivered to hundreds of participants following the 2016 election. It draws on her strengths as a psychologist and community collaborator to prepare people to engage in dialogue across political disagreement.

Dr. Robert Litan, is one of the few practicing lawyers in any field, with a Ph.D. in economics and an extensive research and career in economics. Litan has directed economic research at three leading national organizations: the Brookings Institution, the Kauffman Foundation and Bloomberg Government. Litan has held several appointed positions in the federal government. In 1993, he was appointed Principal Deputy Assistant Attorney General in the Antitrust Division of the Justice Department. He also has taught counter-insurgency at the U.S. Army Command General Staff College, Ft. Leavenworth. Litan is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Litan is the founder of debatecenteredinstruction.org, a clearinghouse for teachers wanting information about how to incorporate debate into their classrooms, based on his book Resolved: Debate can Revolutionize Education and Help Save our Democracy (Brookings Press, 2020). During his research career, Litan has authored or co-authored 30 books and edited another 14 and authored or co-authored more than 250 articles in professional and popular publications on a wide range of legal and public matters,

There's so much we urgently need to talk about, mask mandates, transgender issues, race relations, growing incivility, threats to our democracy, but so little we can safely discuss in mixed company.  Increasingly, what starts out as a cordial and benign conversation can get weird quickly. In this second episode, we talk about why avoiding difficult conversations is no longer sustainable and how to identify the right people with whom we can talk through the sensitive cultural, social, and political discussions that are becoming more inescapable.

Tony Pingitore is a father, husband, teacher, counselor, and highly respected community organizer in Ohio. His state is home to a large population of “red people” who are struggling with the changes sweeping the country. Tony spends his days navigating the hard lines that divide us and has personally witnessed the damage the relentless conflict is having on friends family, and organizations.

Errol St.Clair Smith is a 30-year veteran of traditional media, an Emmy-winning correspondent, and the executive producer at BAM Radio Network. Errol spends his days listening to educators navigate increasingly sensitive topics in an attempt to maintain their authenticity and integrity, without doing damage to their professional relationships or careers.  Errol lives in California with his wife, daughter, and a large population of “blue people.”

Remember when we were consumed with teaching the skills that would be needed in the future? Well, what 21st-Century skill is more valuable than the ability to talk constructively about the things that matter most? Join us as we learn how to discuss the things that we’re all facing daily, in ways that don’t end with a black eye, a 911 call, or being unfollowed.

Tony Pingitore is a father, husband, teacher, counselor, and a highly respected community organizer in Ohio. His state is home to a large population of “red people” who are struggling with the changes sweeping the country. Tony spends his days navigating the hard lines that divide us and has personally witnessed the damage the relentless conflict is having on friends family, and organizations.

Errol St.Clair Smith is a 30-year veteran of traditional media, an Emmy-winning correspondent, and the executive producer at BAM Radio Network. Errol spends his days listening to educators navigate increasingly sensitive topics in an attempt to maintain their authenticity and integrity, without doing damage to their professional relationships or careers. Errol Lives in California with his wife, daughter, and a large population of “blue people.”