The Worm Hole Podcast Charlie Place

Charlie and Lucy Barker (The Other Side Of Mrs Wood) discuss Victorian mediums both factual and fictionalised - their work, the spiritualism that led to their popularity, the social circles, the rivalry, the rumours of fraud, and the women's roles as early grief counselors. We also talk about the early days of the Suffrage movement and various aspects of the book's ending.
Please note there is a very mild swear word in this episode.
The Courtauld's exhibition of Georgiana Houghton's spirit paintings
A preview of Tracy Ann Oberman's audio version of The Other Side Of Mrs Wood
Lucy's blog post on the postal service in Victorian times
One Night At McCool's
Lucy's blog post on using Notting Hill
Where to find Lucy online
Blog || Twitter || Instagram
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
01:50 The real mediums who inspired the book: Agnes Guppy and Florence Cook
05:17 Lucy talks about how mediums in general were able to escape accusations of falsehood despite many being outed as frauds
08:53 The fickleness and loyalty of medium patrons
10:35 Why the Victorians were in to Spiritualism
14:00 The importance of the references to America throughout the book - America's own spiritualism
15:27 Mrs Wood, Miss Newman, and Miss Finch
19:07 The very early days of the women's suffrage movement
22:30 About Mrs Wood's circle of people
26:35 How Mrs Wood seeing herself as providing a service for grieving people, and the role of mediums in early grief counseling
29:34 The comedy in the book, and Lucy speaks briefly about her next book in the context of humour
30:58 Lucy's use of letters in the book, and Mr Clore's columns
33:23 The ending: why Lucy chose the ending she did for Mrs Wood and Mr Larson
35:32 Charlie thought it was going to be revealed that Miss Finch could really talk to spirits - Lucy discusses this point. Listen in!
37:24 The ending: Mrs Wood and Miss Finch and their terms
39:20 Lucy tells us about the locations in the book: Victorian-era Notting Hill, Portobello Road, Ladbroke Grove
42:32 Lucy gives us more information about her next book

Charlie and Jennifer Saint (Atalanta) discuss the forgotten story of the female member of the Argonauts - Jennifer's use of and changes to the various versions of the mythological story, including her usage of motherhood as a theme, Homer's thoughts on his women characters, the assault of Callisto, and the fact that Jason isn't much of a hero.
Please note there are mentions of sexual assault in this episode.
Episode 60 of this podcast is my interview with Jennifer about Elektra
Jennifer's Elektra
Jennifer's Ariadne
The Argonautica
Sarah Clegg's Women's Lore
Cicero said, in the Tusculan Disputations, Book I, On The Contempt Of Death, section XXXIX: "If a child dies young, one should console himself easily. If he dies in the cradle, one doesn't even pay attention."
Emily Wilson's translation of The Iliad
Where to find Jennifer online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
01:42 Why Atalanta, what drew you to her?
03:19 Why the first person in particular and how did you create Atalanta's voice?
06:31 The relevance of Atalanta's story to our present day, especially compared to Elektra
08:49 The unimportance of Jason (of the Argonauts)
10:07 Atalanta's growth as a person and her relative genderlessness
12:49 How and why Jennifer included motherhood in the way that she does (and how there are bad parents in Greek mythology)
17:54 Depending on the version of the story, Atalanta doesn't always meet Artemis - Jennifer talks about this and her choices for her story. We then move on to Callisto's story and the different versions of it
24:25 Jennifer talks about how Homer seems to have empathy for the women in his stories as part of a wider discussion as to the reception of the female characters in Ancient Greek society
27:49 How Jennifer approached writing the male characters, who revolve around Atalanta rather than the other way around
34:57 The ending - becoming lions would've been seen as a punishment in Ancient Greece, so how did Jennifer change this for her story?
38:02 Artemis' and Aphrodite's relationship
41:16 What's next - Jennifer's book on Hera
42:23 Might Jennifer ever write a 'regular' high fantasy novel?

Charlie and Elizabeth Fremantle (Disobedient) discuss the formative life, and Elizabeth's fictionalisation, of Artemisia Gentileschi, a woman painter from the 17th century.
Please note that there are many mentions of rape in this episode, and there is also a mention of animal death.
The previous episodes with Elizabeth are episode 7 and episode 70
The exhibition at The National Gallery
Judith Slaying Holofernes
Caravaggio's Judith Beheading Holofernes
Mary D Garrard's Artemisia Gentileschi
Elizabeth's Queen's Gambit
Firebrand
Where to find Elizabeth online
Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
01:18 Why Artemisia, and the general inspiration for the book
04:40 Elizabeth talks about Artemisia's work in general, as well as her success in her lifetime
10:58 How much does your fictionalisation of Orazio Gentileschi align with what's known?
15:14 Where Artemisia worked on her father's paintings
16:47 The Stiatessi family and what we know about Artemisia's husband
20:12 About Zita, real name Tuzia
22:49 The fragments of translations in the book - listen in for some interesting facts!
25:56 The use of laundry and light coming through the laundry lines
28:21 The Nightingale (Ovid's Metamorphoses' Philomel and Procne)
31:19 About Beatrice Cenci and Elizabeth's next book
35:28 Asking Elizabeth about what Charlie feels is her defining element - her honing in to one or two specific elements - and how she may continue in this vein in future
40:42 Lola the dog, who is mentioned at the start of the novel
41:29 Release dates for Firebrand, the film of Queen's Gambit
Photo credit: JP Masclet.

Charlie and Kristy Woodson Harvey (The Summer Of Songbirds) discuss whether we should like her character, Lanier (who stops her best friend and brother being together); the various plot threads she left out of the book (including alternative endings); and US summer camps (both Kristy's experiences, and the effect of the pandemic lockdowns). We also spend a good amount of time discussing the pre-actor's-strike announcement of an adaptation of Kristy's Peachtree Bluff series and her next two books.
Kristy's The Wedding Veil
Kristy's Christmas In Peachtree Bluff
Friends & Fiction
Kristy's interview with Susan M Boyer
The announcement about the Peachtree Bluff adaptation on Kristy's website
Where to find Kristy online
Website || Twitter || Facebook || Instagram
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
02:14 The inspiration: a sailing trip at a summer camp Kristy went to with her family during the pandemic
06:49 So Lanier and Rich came first?...
08:02 How Kristy doesn't write in chronological order and how it ends up working well
12:01 How Kristy feels about Lanier
15:35 Why was important to write about Daphne's family and the problems there are there?
19:21 Why no narrator for Mary Stuart?
25:39 This book was originally longer (what got cut)
29:24 Kristy's childhood experiences of US summer camps
33:52 Why Kristy ends her book with a scene about Daphne, Lanier, and Mary Stuart's children going to camp
34:51 Real camps that had to close due to the lockdowns
36:24 The concept of 'hard things'
40:27 Other endings Kristy had in mind for The Summer Of Songbirds
44:43 A sequel?
48:18 The on-hold Peachtree Bluff adaptation
52:16 What's next (A Happier Life, and and very, very brief peak at Kristy's 2025 book)

Charlie and Maggie Brookes (Acts Of Love And War) discuss the small group of British Quakers who went to aid refugees during the Spanish Civil War, the way the war tore families apart as people chose different sides, and why she ended her romantic thread differently than might be expected.
All referenced media in this episode:
Francesca Wilson's In The Margins Of Chaos
Maggie Brookes' Acts Of Love And War
Maggie Brookes' The Prisoner's Wife
Buy Acts of Love and War and other books mentioned
Where to find Maggie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
01:53 The initial inspiration: Professor Farah Mendlesohn's PhD on the Spanish Civil War
03:39 The very small group of Quakers, including Alfred Jacob, who went out to Spain from Britain to help refugees
07:02 The real life women in Maggie's book: Francesca Wilson, Kanty Cooper
09:30 How the Quakers got their supplies to Spain, and the refugee children's colonies
15:03 What happened to the refugees after the war
18:26 Maggie's fictional characters - Lucy, Tom, and Jamie and having two brothers on different sides of the war
22:20 People in Britain who thought Franco was right, and why they thought that, and we mention the non-intervention pact many countries agreed to
27:27 On why Maggie had one of the brothers die, and who was better for Lucy
29:59 The ending, Maggie leaving Lucy single
32:00 Maggie tells us about the inspiration of her first book, The Prisoner's Wife, and Maggie briefs us on what she's writing now
Photo credit: Lyn Gregory
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Charlie and Stacey Thomas (The Revels) discuss English Civil War era witch hunting which includes the methods, the propaganda, and the awful theatre of it all. We also discuss Stacey's inclusion of actual witches in her narrative, and Stacey's recommendations of Wolf Hall and A Little Life.
Witchfinder General
James VI/I's Daemonologie
Hilary Mantel's Wolf Hall
Hanya Yanagihara's A Little Life
Bridget Collins' The Binding
Stacey's episode on Witches Of Scotland
I spoke to Amita Parikh in episode 72
Where to find Stacey online
Twitter || Instagram || TikTok
Where to find Charlie online
Website || Twitter || Instagram
Discussions
01:20 What made you want to tell this story of a man who is a witch, and his role in the judgement of witches?
02:23 Stacey's interest in James I and his favouritism of different male courtiers
04:22 The theatrical elements of the book
05:58 The torture of the accused 'witches' that led to fantasy stories being created
08:51 The influence of the printing press and propaganda pamphlets on the public's thoughts about accused women
10:02 About knot magic
12:09 The importance of having actual witches in the book and the impact of religion
14:32 Stacey's interest in taxidermy and Althamia's experience
16:41 Althamia's impact on the novel
17:54 The themes of grief and guilt in the book
20:51 Castor and Pollux
22:20 The writing style and narrative voice, and Stacey recommends Wolf Hall and A Little Life
25:24 All about Will and how he fits into the story
30:44 Is John Rush a witch?... And the fact he's left at large at the end
34:40 The initial execution scene did not originally happen...
35:57 Althamia says "Happy endings are beyond most people" and talks of proper endings - how does Stacey see The Revels in that sense?
39:15 Modern day apologies for witch hunters by the church
42:02 What Stacey's working on now (this turns into a lengthy discussion on debutantes and their publicity machines
With thanks to Jawnson.