Jeannie Yandel and Eula Scott Bynoe break down how sexism works in the modern workplace. And with help from some badass experts, they bring you real tactics you can use to fight back.
When Eula Met Jeannie
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How did you two meet?
When it comes to this podcast, that's the question Eula and Jeannie get asked the most. And it's one of their favorite stories to tell. So on this episode, we're doing something a little different. We're having them tell the story of how they met and their friendship.
Big thanks to our Senior Producer Kyle Norris for suggesting we make this a podcast episode!
https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2021/11/10/making-friends-adults (You're Not Uncool. Making Friends As An Adult Is Just Hard. )
https://www.bigfriendship.com/ (Big Friendship: How We Keep Each Other Close )
https://www.forbes.com/sites/katecooper/2021/09/28/the-importance-of-work-friends/?sh=6ab5045766d2 (The Importance Of Work Friends )
We'll Be Back On November 29th!
Some stuff broke, and we need a minute to regroup. We'll be back in two weeks!
In the meantime, if you miss us, there's a whole bunch of fresh bonus content https://www.patreon.com/btsw (on our Patreon) for supporting members.
Why Imposter Syndrome Is Starting "To Sound Like Bulls**t"
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"Carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white guy". This was a tactic we heard in our https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-the-patriarchy-makes-you-feel-like-an-imposter/id1391206534?i=1000416486363 (Season 1 episode on Imposter Syndrome). If you haven't yet, give this episode a listen. It's our most downloaded episode, and the topic we are asked to speak the most about. For a while, it's felt as though lots of us couldn't get enough tactics to battle imposter syndrome within ourselves.
Then, our friends and all-around geniuses Jodi-Ann Burey and Ruchika Tulshyan co-wrote https://hbr.org/2021/02/stop-telling-women-they-have-imposter-syndrome (Stop Telling Women They Have imposter Syndrome), for the Harvard Business Review, followed by https://hbr.org/2021/07/end-imposter-syndrome-in-your-workplace (End Imposter Syndrome In Your Workplace) (chock-full of tactics, btw!). And it got us thinking: Are we still cool with what we said about imposter syndrome in that old episode? That it is truly an individual issue we must each overcome, rather than a red flag about bigger, systemic biases and obstacles?
So we asked Jodi-Ann to listen to that old episode, poke holes in it, and tell us why she thinks imposter syndrome is bulls**t. Which is exactly what she did - in a delightful, hilarious, thought-provoking way.
GUEST: https://jodiannburey.com/ (Jodi-Ann Burey) is a disruptor, thinker, and writer - and her https://www.ted.com/talks/jodi_ann_burey_the_myth_of_bringing_your_full_authentic_self_to_work (TEDx Seattle Talk on authenticity at work) has been viewed more than a million times. Find her on instagram @jodiannburey. Her podcast is called https://www.blackcancer.co/ (Black Cancer).
Sometimes Invisibility Isn't A Superpower
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There's a phenomenon researchers have observed among many women in the workplace that they call https://hbr.org/2018/08/why-women-stay-out-of-the-spotlight-at-work ("intentional invisibility"). It happens because for many women, they are both aware that they must be visible at work to get ahead - own their ideas, speak up, use their voices - while also worrying that they'll be penalized for being too visible. For being too assertive, or too intimidating, or just...too much. (Decades of research on both racial and gender bias in American workplaces indicates this is a valid concern and a real danger, btw.) So these women choose the path of less potential conflict. They shrink themselves so they're not penalized for being too big. They intentionally choose invisibility.
Angela 'Merk' Nguyen has been told she's too much - at her job and even before that. But instead of shrinking and becoming invisible, she went in the opposite direction. She stayed visible. She spoke up to people in her personal life and professional life. And she tells Jeannie and Eula why - even though it wasn't easy to keep speaking up - she'll never go the invisibility route.
GUEST: Angela 'Merk' Nguyen is LV, or Little Voice, on the awesome podcast for tweens https://listentotrouble.com/ (Ooh! You're In Trouble). For five seasons, she was the co-host and co-producer of the podcast https://www.radiotopia.fm/podcasts/adult-ish (Adult ISH.) And soon, you'll hear her voice work all over kids' animated films! Follow her @ultraraduberfad on Instagram and Twitter.
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Even before the conservatorship, Britney Spears had to figure out how to navigate a stunningly sexist workplace. The kind of workplace where it was considered charming for a fully adult Ed McMahon to compliment your "pretty eyes" and ask if you have a boyfriend...when you're ten years old...and on national television.
Jeannie and Eula have a heart-to-heart about the public narrative around Britney Spears, and how we all had a hand in creating her toxic, sexist workplace - one that only got worse once she became a mom. And they talk about how to do better from here on out.
The documentary we discuss in this episode is https://www.hulu.com/series/the-new-york-times-presents-f22278d1-ef56-40e8-9227-af3a029ca6f4 (Framing Britney Spears,) available on Hulu. There's now a second documentary on Hulu too. It's called https://www.hulu.com/series/the-new-york-times-presents-f22278d1-ef56-40e8-9227-af3a029ca6f4 (Controlling Britney Spears). We highly recommend you start with Framing Britney Spears.
Other stuff from this episode:
https://gimletmedia.com/shows/mystery-show/emhe24 (Mystery Show Episode 2: Britney)
https://astro-charts.com/persons/chart/britney-spears/ (Britney's Astrological Birth Chart )
Part 2: "Telling The Whole Truth" About Grief At Work
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When Marisa Renee Lee's mother passed away, Marisa tried to do everything right. She continued to work hard at her job. She saved her asks for time off and support at work for when she really needed it. And she tried to make sure all the tasks that surround a loved one's illness and passing were completed in an efficient way. Her lesson: you can't project-manage and hustle your way out of grief. Even if everything around you is saying that's the way forward.
We wanted to talk with Marisa after learning about the book she's writing, https://www.marisareneelee.com/grief-is-love (Grief Is Love), and after discovering she's been thinking about something we both get nerdily excited about: a new national policy! Yessss!
Seriously, though, Marisa has been thinking through what a national grief policy might look like, and why the US needs one. She was Managing Director for the https://www.obama.org/mbka/ (My Brother's Keeper Alliance) and the Deputy Director of Private Sector Engagement for the Obama Administration, and she worked with now-President Biden during that time. She says if any President can create and pass a national grief policy, it's Biden. And she says now is the time to move on it.
We both get pretty real with Marisa about our own grief in this episode, and she gets real with us about what it means to grieve, what it means to be there for our grieving friends and co-workers, and why workplaces and other institutions have to get their shit together when it comes to meaningful grief support. The conversation gets heavy, but we love it because it's also funny and hopeful and goofy. We hope you love it too.
This is a fanTAStic podcast!! I am going to be recommending this to everyone I know! Thank you so much for all the tactics and knowledge you are sharing with everyone!! <3