Ask a Medievalist Ask a Medievalist
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- History
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Everything you always wanted to know about the Middle Ages, but were unable to ask.
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Pipe Dreams
Synopsis
If you’re one of those people who thinks about the Roman Empire a lot because aqueducts are really cool, you’re going to love this. Join Em and Jesse as they discuss the irrigation of the Chengdu Plain, the plumbing of Tenochtitlan, and water management at Machu Picchu. Then we round out our “the middle ages didn’t constantly smell awful” series with a discussion of the history of perfume.
Notes
1/ Various news articles about water pollution:
Cuyahoga River fires (yes, plural): https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/cuyahoga-river-caught-fire-least-dozen-times-no-one-cared-until-1969-180972444/
Chicago River story: https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2023/9/28/23895006/trump-tower-chicago-river-pollution-attorney-general-kwame-raoul
2/ John Snow proved that the Broad Street Pump was carrying disease in 1854: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7150208/
Germ theory of disease was actually first proposed in 1546 but not widely accepted in Europe until the end of the 1880s. THE 1880s!
For more on Girolamo Fracastoro see: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-physician-who-presaged-the-germ-theory-of-disease-nearly-500-years-ago/
3/ The Irrigation of the Chengdu Plain: the Dujiangyan irrigation system is a UNESCO heritage site! https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1001/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dujiangyan
4/ Tenochtitlan plumbing: the Chapultepec aqueduct! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapultepec_aqueduct
5/ The Incan plumbing:
An article from UW-Madison (Go Badgers!!): https://ancientengrtech.wisc.edu/machu-picchu/machu-picchu-water-management/
6/ For the record, although there were people in the area of Venice from around the 10th century BCE on, the dedication of the first church, symbolically recognized as the founding of the city, was 421 CE. (There was a Roman city there before, of course.) Tenochtitlan, on the other hand, was founded around 1325 CE (with, again, some wiggle room).
7/ The tallest building in Des Moines, IA, is 801 Grand, which is 45 storeys high. [Sorry Des Moines!!! You are awesome.]
8/ Maledicta: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression, was published from 1977–2005. In vol. 12 (1996), they did publish an article entitled “Linguistic and Blasphemous Aspects of Bavarian Micturition and American Toilet Names” by the editor, Reinhold Aman. However, the journal is now offline.
He, uh. Really hated the Clintons.
9/ QI bits: I can’t find them. [I think you might need BBC iPlayer or a VPN or similar.–Jesse]
10/ The Ted Chiang short story is “Tower of Babylon,” which is collected in Stories of Your Life and Others. It’s really good!
11/ UW–Madison and building better potatoes: https://pasdept.wisc.edu/2019/10/07/new-potato-helps-farmers-weather-the-frost/
UW Machu Picchu project is part of UW-Madison’s Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering’s Ancient Engineering Technologies project:
a href="https://ancientengrtech.wisc. -
Plumb as in Full of Lead
Summary
After a brief discussion of how people brushed their teeth, we move on to the question of where the water they used came from. And yeah, Rome had aqueducts–but so did a lot of places! And the Romans didn’t even build the aqueducts they did have–they took them from the Etruscans! Who may have gotten the idea from the Minoans! Also we talk about China, Harappa, and the Inca. You don’t want to miss this amazing smorgasbord of plumbing knowledge.
Notes
1/ This discussion of dentistry is very weird to listen to; as I [Em] am editing this episode, I’m also preparing to get some dental work and…let’s just say we all appreciate being born after Novocain became a thing. [Ooooo, yes. I agree.–Jesse]
2/ St. Apollonia–see episode 10 (Icons and Iconography) note 37 and episode 28 (Food) note 29.
3/ A broken jaw wired together with gold thread: the jaw of a Byzantine warrior (14th century) was broken and healed after being wired together (probably with gold thread). Hippocrates had suggested this method in the 5th century BCE, but there’s not a lot of archeological evidence of this type of surgery. https://www.livescience.com/byzantine-warrior-fractured-jaw
4/ Our Flag Means Death is set around 1717–1720. The “acts of grace” Blackbeard takes advantage of were a 1717–1719 thing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1717%E2%80%931718_Acts_of_Grace), and IRL Blackbeard died in 1718. Also, Stede dresses like a gentleman of that era (banyans! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banyan_(clothing))
5/ First toothbrush: China, 600s CE. Here’s a history of toothbrush evolution in China! https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22883376/
6/ Various tooth abrasives:
* Pumice
* Ash
* charcoal
* Eggshells
* Walnut shells
* Crushed bones
* Oyster shells
7/ The compound in coffee and tea that sticks to your teeth is tannin. When you brush your teeth with baking soda, I believe it forms a new compound—sodium tannate, and then it will leave your teeth alone! That’s why baking soda is a whitener. But it tastes NASTY.
8/ Trotula (12th century): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trota_of_Salerno
9/ Lead: plumbum in Latin. Pretty clear line from there to plumber.
10/ Indus Valley / Harappa:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilisation
https://www.harappa.com/blog/mohenjo-daro-street-drains
Jansen, “Water Supply and Sewage Disposal at Mohenjo-Daro” in World Archaeology 21.2 (Oct 1989), 177-192.
11/ Shelves in the closet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKE2S-lHhRY
12/ The Minoans:
Jesse has seen the plumbing at the palace at Knossos and spent a lot of time taking pictures of it. It’s still there and truly incredible!
A.N. Angelakis “Hydro-technologies in the Minoan Era”
http... -
Bath House (in the Middle of the Street)
Summary
When Em was a kid, she was told that knights in shining armor didn’t bathe, that Elizabeth I had bathed only three times in her life, and various other assertions. But we know that soap is not a modern invention–the word itself comes from the Latin, and no less than Pliny the Elder discusses how to make it from tallow and ashes. So what constitutes bathing? Were people before the year 1900 CE just terribly smelly all the time? And what were bathrooms–and plumbing–like around the world? Join Em and Jesse for a far-ranging discussion of cleanliness, won’t you?
Notes
0/ Em’s new novel, Old Time Religion, can be ordered here. Dionysus in Wisconsin is here.
1/ This episode was apparently recorded in April of 2022. Amusingly, the novel I was working on is NOT either of the novels that have been published! It was TWO AND A HALF novels BEFORE Dionysus. 2022 was wild.
2/ William Alcott’s tract Thoughts on Bathing:
Catalog entry: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/011604824
Full text!: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.32044014202691&seq=5
I think Em says 1939, she meant 1839.
3/ The most famous portrait of someone in a bath is, in my mind, The Death of Marat, by Jacques-Louis David, which is SOLIDLY 18th century. But there are others, from earlier.
(Also, who doesn’t love JLD? He’s amazing.)
4/ York Medieval interactive Viking attraction: https://www.jorvikvikingcentre.co.uk
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorvik_Viking_Centre
5/ Nope, this is from a letter that Queen Elizabeth I wrote to George Carey, 2nd Baron Hunsdon, who is better known for being Lord Chamberlain and the patron of the Lord Chamberlain’s Men (Shakespeare’s Company) after his father Henry, also Lord Chamberlain and patron of the Lord Chamberlain’s Men, died. He was apparently having a great time at Bath, and the Queen wrote him: “[I] can not but wonder, considering the great number of pails of water that I hear have been poured upon you, that you are not rather drowned than otherwise. But I trust all shall be for your better means to health.” Here is a link to the letter. (Berkeley Castle Muniments Select Letter 8). The letter is also available in Katherine Duncan-Jones, ‘Elizabeth I and her “Good George” unpublished letters’, in P. Beal and G. Ioppolo (eds.), Elizabeth I and the Culture of Writing (British Library, 2007), 29–41.
6/ Monty Python scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8vXOUi-eI
Dennis the peasant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2c-X8HiBng
7/ The process of making soap is called SAPONIFICATION. Sometimes this happens to bodies that get buried in certain environments. The word soap came to Latin (saponem) from a proto-Fresian dialect (I don’t think ... -
I'm a Ramblin' Man
Synopsis
Are you travelling for Thanksgiving? Believe it or not, “travel” as a thing is not a modern creation. In the middle ages, people visited many remote and far-flung places and brought back notes (and delicious noodles). Join Em and Jesse for travel talk, including Lord Elgin, Ibn Battuta, Marco Polo, Zheng He, Margery Kemp, and more.
Notes
0/ The actual postcard:
I found it in a copy of The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, by Oliver Sacks. I was definitely not reading that when the postcard arrived, so…I don’t know how it was saved.
1/ Anyway, in the UK a “subway” means a pedestrian tunnel under a street. (cough)
2/ Lord Elgin: Boo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bruce,_7th_Earl_of_Elgin
It’s actually weird that this one, with more complaining about the British Museum, is coming directly after our episode about the British Museum. We didn’t plan that. We just slag off the British Museum from time to time. [We do!–Jesse]
There is apparently some debate about the legality of Lord Elgin’s firman (a royal mandate allowing him to do the things he did).
He did all this in the early 1800s, and he had considerable trouble getting his booty back to the UK. Some pieces took upward of ten years to arrive. Also, Byron was horrified and wrote the following lines:
Dull is the eye that will not weep to see
Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed
By British hands, which it had best behoved
To guard those relics ne’er to be restored.
Curst be the hour when from their isle they roved,
And once again thy hapless bosom gored,
And snatch’d thy shrinking gods to northern climes abhorred!
No one better than Byron for a slam poem. [Much, much applause!–Jesse]
The marbles were purchased by the British gov’t in 1816 for 35,000 GBP. (Elgin had estimated their value at 75k, which is actually what he spent to bring them back to the UK, so he took a bath on the whole deal.) This would be approximately £2,795,511.37 (about 3.5 million USD) in today’s money, which is a lot but not an astronomical sum. [Welp, I’m glad he roasted!–Jesse]
4/ What the heck, let’s link to James Acaster again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73PkUvArJY
5/ Also, quick shout out to the QI bit about the Parthenon, why not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdvD4Fhc_K8
6/ Netscape guy James Clark repatriates stuff: https://news.artnet.com/news/netscape-founder-returns-looted-cambodian-antiquities-2059851
For more on museums, see episode 72.
7/ Famous travelers include:
Ibn Battuta: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Battuta
Marco Polo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Polo
Zheng He https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zheng_He
Margery Kemp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margery_Kempe
8/ Travel in the Roman empire: https://orbis.stanford.edu/
9/ The episode on graffiti was episode 69 (the part about the Vikings was right at the end—see note 20).... -
Does It Belong in a Museum?
Synopsis
We’ve all seen that scene in Indiana Jones where he’s clutching an artifact and shouting, “It belongs in a museum!” But nowadays in 2023, we tend to temper that idea–museums are fun, but who gets to hold a particular object, why, and for how long is a point of contention. Join Em and Jesse as they discuss one of the world’s oldest and largest museums, the British Museum. With a collection of over eight million objects, you know there’s some controversial stuff in there. We’ll also discuss other recent British Museum-related controversies, the illegal antiquities market, the differences between Lord Elgin and the city of Elgin, IL, and more.
Notes
1/ “Wake Up Thai People” Cold War map: https://transnationalhistory.net/doing/2020/04/12/a-tale-of-two-nations-the-creations-of-iran-and-thailand/
https://yalebooks.yale.edu/2017/12/22/cold-war-maps-to-wake-up-southeast-asian-buddhists/
2/ Article about the Met’s “aggressive” collection policy.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/mar/20/new-york-metropolitan-museum-collection-artifacts-theft
https://www.icij.org/investigations/hidden-treasures/more-than-1000-artifacts-in-metropolitan-museum-of-art-catalog-linked-to-alleged-looting-and-trafficking-figures/
3/ I think “all art is counterfit” is a minor plot point of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier?
4/ Article about Met sending back Nepali statue: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2023/mar/20/new-york-metropolitan-museum-collection-artifacts-theft
5/ Article about illegal Cambodian statues at the Met: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/24/arts/cambodia-met-museum-looted-antiquities.html (not the one I remember seeing, but a much newer one)
6/ Article about illegal Gilgamesh tablets: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/hobby-lobby-forfeits-rare-gilgamesh-tablet-smuggled-iraq-180978314/
7/ Article about guy sending back Cambodian statues: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/arts/design/james-clark-cambodian-antiquities.html
Also this: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/12/arts/design/lindemann-cambodia-khmer-statues-looting.html#:~:text=A%20family%20of%20billionaire%20art,American%20officials%20said%20on%20Tuesday.
8/ Elgin marbles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles
https://www.britishmuseum.org/about-us/british-museum-story/contested-objects-collection/parthenon-sculptures
Versus Elgin, IL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin, -
Fashion (Turn to the Left)
Synopsis
Em and Jesse talk about Italian sumptuary laws, which unlike the British ones, were more aimed at women. Then they talk about fashion “dos” of the middle ages.
Notes
1/ So, the difference between having a title and being part of the peerage is this. In America, when you earn a lot of money, you get to be part of a special club where you are allowed to accumulate “social dollars” (rizz, street cred, social capital, whatever) and then spend it to get stuff you want (meet Taylor Swift, drive an F1 car, sit at the 50 yard line at the Superb Owl, shoot yourself into outer space). We don’t have a real “nobility” here, we have the rich and famous and everyone else. In the UK, you can be rich but you can’t buy your way into the peerage. And this is why the British class system is the way it is (rigid). Peers make the laws (remember that the House of Lords still exists). When I say baronets and knights aren’t noble, I mean they’re not peers. (This gets very complex, because some titles are hereditary and some are not, the king can write special things into your letters patent, etc. But the bottom line is James I started using the title baronet as a way of getting rich merchants to give the crown money in exchange for being able to be called Sir and pull rank on a limited number of knights.) Or at least I think this is how things are.
2/ It’s like the set up to an Onion article, Sir Paul McCartney and Sir Patrick Stewart called upon to raise troops for British invasion of France…
3/ Fourth Lateran Council in 1215: this council did a lot of famous stuff. Very important!
4/ Married saints: St Therese of the Little Flower (Lisieux) was not married. But her parents are the only (to date) married couple to be canonized: Sts Louis and Zelie Martin. St Catherine of Sweden is the daughter of St Bridget of Sweden (c1303–1373).
5/ Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood.
6/ Medieval slashed sleeves–see some awesome medieval and early modern slashing here!
Diane Owen Hughes “Sumptuary Law and Social Relations in Renaissance Italy” in Disputes and Settlements: Law and Human Relations in the West ed. John Bossy; 69–99.
7/ There’s a Frog and Toad story where Toad winds up finding a bunch of buttons and sewing them onto his coat. The story about the illegal buttons reminded me of it.
Our Flag Means Death, s1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQDst-tAJ8
8/ Allison Fizzard, “Shoes, Boots, Leggings, and Cloaks: The Augustinian Canons and Dress in Later Medieval England” from the Journal of British Studies 46(2), 245–262.
Jesse and I went to Rome once and played “identify the order” based on the vestments of various monks and nuns in the Vatican. [Still 100% possible!–Jesse]
9/ No shade to community theater; I know ya’ll work hard. [The real backbone of the theatrical community!–Jesse]
10/ Buttons for ornamentation: you can actually get suit coats with ornamental buttons on the cuffs. It makes me feel happier to know this has a medieval origin, because it does feel like a cheaper choice by the manufacturer. [It was the cheaper choice in the Middle Ages too, but it was meant to look fancy!–Jesse]
11/ As mentioned in the last episode, Em did a reading and a panel about historical accuracy in fantasy writing about the middle ages; they’re on youtube:
Reading: a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?
Customer Reviews
Fun, entertaining, informative!
It’s fantastic! Each episode is an interesting and thoroughly entertaining deep dive into ancient and not so ancient history. It provides a lens through which we can see how our modern world has been shaped by the past.
Wowza!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Many dinner dinner discussions have begun with, well, on ask a Medievalist podcast, I never knew.......You both are great and keep it medieval and let’s all Dream About Tea( that’s a shout out to Dr. Jesse!)
So woke
Pregnancy is done exclusively by woman.