The Church Lobby Karl Vaters

As we come to the end of our ten-part series based on De-sizing the Church, we’re highlighting portions of conversations Karl Vaters had with five church leaders from various backgrounds about their first reactions to reading the book.
·       Drew Dyck (author and editor) talks about the dangers of Christian celebrity.
·       Peyton Jones (author and church planter) claims that churches operating under the church growth paradigm are more likely to be in decline than growth.
·       Greg Atkinson (author and church consultant) discusses the importance of broadening our understanding of church size and health.
·       Stan Givens (pastor) comments on the importance of churches working together, and the essential role of discipleship.
·       Sean Nemecek (author and soul care coach) looks at the high rates of burnout due to chasing numbers, and digs into the revivalist history of the Great Awakenings.
 
Links:
·       De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What’s Next
·       Church Plantology
·       The Weary Leaders Guide to Burnout
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Karl Vaters talks with Mike Rubino about his First Reaction to the first chapter of De-sizing the Church, The Danger of Idolizing Outcomes.
Karl and Mike look at:

The difference between a church that is trending or transforming

The biggest mistakes churches make regarding metrics

Why “idolatry” is not too strong a term for how many churches and pastors approach size, growth, and outcomes

And more.


When we’re obsessed with doing something that Jesus never told us to do we’re always in danger of it becoming an idol. And the weight of that is more than we can bear.
Mike Rubino is the pastor of Cornerstone Bible Church, Port Jefferson Station, on Long island NY, and the founder of the Church Revitalize Center.
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A conversation with Matt Steen about the potential dangers of replatforming fallen pastors too quickly.
This is the first of three First Reaction episodes in which I talk to people who read advance copies of De-sizing the Church to get their response to some of the issues I raise in it.
As the co-founder of Chemistry Staffing, which helps churches find great staff members, and staff members find awesome churches, Matt has a unique insight about the right time to replatform pastors after they’ve failed morally.
Matt and I also address the issues of Platform Addiction, the effect on victims when we replatform fallen pastors too quickly (or at all), and the important idea that restoring someone back into ministry doesn't always mean getting them back on a platform again.
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Fame and celebrity have many downsides. But Daniel Darling brings a balanced approach to this subject by reminding us that fame is also what allows a good message to get through the clutter.
In this episode, Karl talks with Dan about a Twitter thread Dan wrote expressing appreciation for the fame of Tim Keller.
It was Tim Keller's platform and the celebrity status it gave him that allowed Dan and so many others to be introduced to Keller’s teachings. Dan’s perspective on the value of having a platform is an important balance to our conversations about the dangers of celebrity.
Dan Darling is the director of The Land Center, a columnist for WORLD and an opinion contributor for USA Today.

Links:

Daniel Darling Tweet from May 20, 2023

DanielDarling.com

Daniel Darling's newsletter

Daniel Darling books


Karl's new book, De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/Contact Me.
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What happens when a pastor sets out, not to minister to people who look like him, but to purposely reach people who look as different from his current congregation as possible?
That’s what Dave Gibbons, the founding pastor of Newsong Church in Orange County, CA did. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with him about the planting of Newsong, the challenges Dave faced when he decided to guide them to look more like the diverse county they were ministering in.
Dave talks honestly and vulnerably about how the Holy Spirit challenged him to reach out to the misfits and the marginalized. This challenged him and the church in huge ways, including a massive drop in attendance that he had to find his way through emotionally, financially, and spiritually.
 
Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/contactme.
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Meritocracy has become embedded in the American church. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about why this is dangerous, how to notice the warning signs of a toxic church culture, the problems with being or following a narcissistic leader, and more.
Scot McKnight is the co-author (with Laura Barringer) of A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing.

Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/contactme.
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