Chicago Public Square Podcasts

Charlie Meyerson
Chicago Public Square Podcasts

Award-winning journalist Charlie Meyerson talks to people about stuff. Contact: Meyerson@gmail.com.

  1. 03/12/2024

    How tech-savvy author Cory Doctorow got scammed

    The American Dialect Society’s 2023 word of the year? Enshittification. And our guest on this edition of Chicago Public Square Podcasts, Cory Doctorow, is the guy who coined it. Hear him define it—and his harrowing explanation of how he, one of the world’s most tech-savvy authors and journalists, got scammed out of $8,000 before he could figure out what was going on. Also: The one “ironclad” rule you should follow to avoid a similar fate. And then, in this—our first conversation since this podcast from 2019—you’ll learn, among many other things, why he thinks Amazon embodies enshittification and why so many major publishers refused to consider one of his books. Listen here, or on Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, Amazon’s Alexa-powered speakers or Apple Podcasts. Or if you prefer to read your podcasts, check out the transcript below. And if you’re a completist, here’s the original, mostly unedited, behind-the-scenes raw audio and video from the recording of this podcast via Zoom on YouTube. ■ Enjoying these podcasts? Help keep them coming by joining The Legion of Chicago Public Squarians.■ And consider subscribing—free—to the daily Chicago Public Square email newsletter. Now, here’s a roughly edited transcript of the interview, recorded March 7, 2024: [00:00:00] Charlie Meyerson: The American Dialect Society’s 2023 Word of the Year? Enshittification. And our guest is the guy who coined it: [00:00:10] Cory Doctorow: What I think is going on is that this bad idea, right?—“Let’s make things worse for our customers and our suppliers and better for ourselves”—is omnipresent in every firm. [00:00:21] CM: Cory Doctorow’s a science fiction author, activist, and oh, I’d say a very active journalist with an email newsletter he publishes daily. His new book is The Bezzle, a high-tech thriller whose protagonist is … an accountant. More on that to come. I’m Charlie Meyerson with ChicagoPublicSquare.com, which, yes, is also an email newsletter. And this is a Chicago Public Square Podcast. Cory, it’s great to see you again. What’s new since the last time you and I recorded a podcast—almost exactly five years ago this month, back in 2019? [00:00:55] CD: Well, there was a pandemic, and you know, lucky for me the way that I cope with anxiety and stress is by writing. And so I wrote nine books, which are all coming out in a string, which has left me pretty busy—but in a good way. My friend Joey Dilla says, when life gives you SARS, you make sarsaparilla. So that’s definitely where I’m at now. [00:01:18] CM: You have a daily email newsletter, you have a podcast, and you’re on this nationwide book tour now, although you’re home now in California. When do you rest, huh? [00:01:27] CD: Well, when I rest, I think about how terrible everything is, and so I try to do as little of that as possible. I mean, my family and I go off and do things from time to time. But, yeah, I have always written as a way of processing the world, and the world needs a lot of processing, so I’m doing a lot of writing. [00:01:48] CM: Did your, uh, restlessness contribute to an unfortunate happening that I think shocked a lot of readers on February 5, 2024, when it was the most-tapped item in Chicago Public Square? And I’m gonna quote you here, “I was robbed $8,000-plus worth of fraud before I figured out what happened, and then he tried to do it again a week later.” What happened? [00:02:11] CD: Yeah, that was while I was taking a rest as it happened. So for Christmas break, my wife and I, and then my daughter and my parents joined us, went to one of my favorite places in the world, New Orleans. So, we landed and needed cash. So I went to an ATM in the French Quarter, was like a, a chase ATM, and the whole transaction ran and then it threw an error and said, we can’t give you your money. I was like, Ugh, what a pain. And later on, we were walking through town and we passed a credit union’s ATM branch. I bank with a one-branch credit union. And most credit unions don’t charge fees to each other. So I was like, oh, we’ll just use this one. So I got some money up. A couple of days go by, it’s time to leave, my folks have already gone, my wife and daughter are at the hotel, and I’ve gone out to get my very favorite sandwich just before we go. And my phone rings and it’s the caller ID for my bank. And they say, “Mr. Doctorow, this is your bank calling. Uh, did you just try and spend a thousand dollars, uh, at an Apple store in New York?” And I was like, Ugh. One of those ATMs turned out to be dodgy. Either was the one that threw that error. And the reason was that it had, like, a skimmer mounted on it and they captured my card number. Or maybe it was that cheap Chinese ATM that the one-branch credit union I went to was using one or the other. I was definitely skimmed. So, you know, I make my peace with it and I start talking with this guy and you know, when you bank with a little one-branch credit union, they don’t have their own after-hours fraud unit. They just contract out. And so these guys, you know, they’re a little clumsy. They’re a little amateurish. They ask you a bunch of questions your bank should know the answer to because they’re not really your bank, they’re their fraud center partner. I’m just going through this whole thing and it’s going on and on, and I can see the store that sells my sandwich, and I can see the time ticking down. And finally, I said like, “Look, fella, you’ve already frozen the card, you’ve gotten most of the recent transaction data. I’m gonna go. When I get to the airport after I clear security, I’ll call the bank’s after-hours number,” and he got really surety and I was like, you’re just gonna have to suck it up. This is how it goes. You know, whatever losses you’re experiencing have nothing compared to the losses of me missing my flight with my wife and daughter. So go back and go to the, go to the airport and on the way I look at my phone and I find out that DC-737 Max Boeing Aircraft has just lost its door plug and all the 737 Maxes in the U.S., they’ve just been grounded. And we get to the airport and it’s a zoo. Everyone’s trying to rebook. By the time we get to the gate, we’ve got five minutes. ’Cause there’s just the lines, you know. Massive. So I call the bank’s after-hours number and they say, “Sorry, sir, you pressed the wrong button. This is lost cards. Fraud’s a different number, but it sounds like you told the guy to freeze your cards. So it should be fine. Just come in on Monday and get your new card.” So, uh, Monday morning I print out the list of all the fraudulent transactions, about $8,000 worth, and I go into the bank. And the cool thing about the one-branch credit union is that the person who helped me out was a vice president there and she was pissed about this $8,000 fraud. ’Cause if Visa wouldn’t cover it, then we’d have to eat it. You know—not me, but the credit union and, and so she’s pissed. I’m pissed. And I say, “Look, you know, some of this has to do with that crummy after-hours fraud center you guys use. ’Cause I told them to freeze my card on Saturday and all this fraud took place on Sunday.” And she said, “Ugh, that’s no good. I’m gonna call them up now and find out what’s going on.” She comes back five minutes later and says, “They never called you on Saturday. That was the fraudster.” My card hadn’t been skimmed at all. So it turns out that guy—I’m like thinking about all the information I gave him: “Well, I gave him my name, but that’s in my Wikipedia entry. Gave him my date of birth; that’s in my Wikipedia entry. I gave him where I live; that’s in my Wikipedia entry. I gave him the last four digits of my credit card, and that’s not an—and then I was like, “Wait a second. He didn’t ask for the last four digits. He asked for the last seven digits” And I said to the vice president of the bank, “You guys only have a single VISA prefix, right? The first nine digits are the same for every card you issue?” She’s like, yep. And I’m like, “OK. So I gave him the last seven digits and that was enough. Then he had the whole card number. And that’s how they robbed me.” And he did it again the following Friday just before MLK weekend. And he called at 5:30 just before the bank’s closed for a three-day weekend or just after the bank’s closed for a three-day weekend, which is like the fraud golden hour. And, you know, I recognized who it was and, and he said, “You know, your car’s been compromised. It’s so and so.” And I’m like, “No, it hasn’t. Card’s still in my wallet. Hasn’t left my wallet since I picked it up on Monday. Why don’t you tell me what the after-hours number on my card is? ’Cause I’m looking at it now. You tell me what number I call back to speak to you.” And he is like, “Mr. Doctorow, this is not a game. I have told you that there is active fraud on your card. If you don’t complete the anti-fraud protocol with me right now, then any losses will be yours to bear. The bank will not identify you.” I’m like, “That’s adorable.” So I hang up on him and he calls me back and I’m like, oh, this guy is like definitely a fraud, right? Any doubt I had is immediately dispelled. So I just hung up with him and blocked his number. And then I called the risk management person at the bank when they reopened on Tuesday—’cause again, small bank, you get to talk to the person, and it turns out that there’s some a leak somewhere in America’s credit union supply chain. And somehow fraudsters are calling people knowing what bank they bank at, and knowing their phone number, neither of which is a matter of public record for me. And that was the convincer for me. So even though I go to Defcon, the big hacker conference every year, and I go to those socia

  2. 09/11/2022

    Axios Chicago’s Monica Eng and Justin Kaufmann: ‘This is a talk show in an email format’

    She’s worked for Chicago’s biggest newspapers and he’s worked for Chicago’s most successful radio stations. And now … they do email.Joining Charlie Meyerson for this edition of the Chicago Public Square / Rivet360 podcast, Chicago Media Talks: Axios Chicago newsletter authors Justin Kaufmann and Monica Eng. Listen on Spotify, Pandora, YouTube, Amazon’s Alexa-powered speakers or Apple Podcasts. Or if you prefer to read your podcasts, check out the transcript below. And if you’re a completist, check out the behind-the-scenes raw audio and video from the recording of this podcast via Zoom on YouTube—including deleted segments like Eng and Kaufmann’s answers (at 34:50) to the question, “How did Charlie most annoy you?” ■ Enjoying these podcasts? Help keep them coming by joining The Legion of Chicago Public Squarians.■ And consider subscribing—free—to the daily Chicago Public Square email newsletter._____ Now, here’s a roughly edited transcript of the interview with Eng and Kaufmann. Charlie Meyerson 0:00 She’s worked for Chicago’s biggest newspapers, and he’s worked for Chicago’s most successful radio stations. And now, they do email. Monica Eng 0:08 At WBEZ they kept saying, “Would you like to write our newsletter?” And I’m like, “Are you kidding me? I’m a reporter! Stop with the insulting questions.” And now, like, I love it. Meyerson 0:20 Monica Eng is a longtime Chicago reporter who’s covered food, culture, health and the environment for the Chicago Sun-Times, the Chicago Tribune and, yes, also at a radio station, WBEZ. Justin Kaufmann’s a former talk show host and producer in Chicago at WBEZ and WGN Radio. They’ve teamed up to create the Axios Chicago newsletter, rounding up the day’s biggest Chicago news plus coverage of their passions, including food and sports. Justin Kaufmann 0:44 Chicago is a different place. It is going to be a different newsletter than Denver. It should be a different newsletter than San Francisco. Meyerson 0:52 Coming to you despite a cough, congestion and a mild fever that a test assures me do not signify COVID-19, I am a well-medicated Charlie Meyerson with Rivet360 and Chicago Public Square, which, yes, is also an email newsletter. And this is Chicago Media Talks. Justin, what did you want to be when you grew up? And how did that lead you into Chicago radio? Kaufmann 1:14 You know, it’s funny. My dad always reminds me that I was really into DePaul Blue Demon basketball when I was a kid and I would write up stories like sports stories of the games that they would show on Channel 9 at the time, like when DePaul would pay like Creighton, or Georgetown. And I would write—he showed me when I was older—like, these write-ups. So I think I wanted to be a sports writer in some form. But to be honest, I really wanted to be in radio. I love the idea I had my own— I did the announcements in high school and a lot of things to end up where I ended up to be a talk show host. So I think that that’s what I wanted to be. Meyerson 1:53 High school announcements: You and I have that in common. Monica, what did you want to be when you grew up? And how has that shaped your career? Eng 2:01 I had no idea. But by the time I was 15, and my mom was dating Roger Ebert, he said, “Hey, so do one of your kids need a job this summer?” I said, “Well, I’m not going to be doing anything but watching TV. So maybe I’ll go try this thing called being a copy clerk at the Chicago Sun-Times.” And from the first day I started working in the features department at the Chicago Sun-Times in 1985, I fell in love with it, and that’s all I ever wanted to do—be a newspaper woman or a newswoman. I did not envision I would be an emailer, thanks for calling me that. Meyerson 2:35 It’s an honorable profession. It’s honorable. Eng 2:37 There was no email at the time, which was why I had a job. You know, putting the mail in the slots at the Chicago Sun-Times. Meyerson 2:45 How and when did you two first meet? Kaufmann 2:48 Ooh. Eng 2:49 Ooh. Kaufmann 2:49 That’s a good question. Monica was world-renowned, you know, in Chicago media. And I think I booked her a couple times on talk shows on WBEZ. And then, you know, when Monica was looking to make a career change, she came over to WBEZ. So we worked together at WBEZ for a couple of years, working on talk shows and reporting. Eng 3:12 Yeah, well, yeah, I remember I remember. I used to hear you on the radio. And I was always a huge fan of WBEZ, and then you know, you, you’d say, “Hey, can you come on and talk about your Tribune stories?” And I thought, “Oh, this is fun.” So when you said, “Hey, there might be a spot here,” like, “You know what? I’m gettin’ a little sick of the Tribune, maybe I’ll think about that.” But as you recall, hiring at public radio sometimes takes a little time. So I think we were doing that dance for a couple of years. Kaufmann 3:39 Yeah, we had a lot of lunches at Fox & Obel, which is that high-end grocery store over on … Eng 3:44 … between Tribune Tower and WBEZ. Meyerson 3:47 How did you come to be a team on the Axios Chicago newsletter? Eng 3:51 Justin had already been working with the Axios daily podcast. So he kind of knew about that world. And we both had worked with Niala Boodhoo at WBEZ. And she was already there. She was quite an evangelist for the place. And I thought, “Whatever, I’ve never really even heard of this thing.” And so when she told us both about it, I think we’re like, “Well, let’s take a look at this.” I don’t think either of us were like super-sure we wanted to do a newsletter because obviously we had different skills. We didn’t like who has newsletter skills? Do people like graduate college knowing how to do this? Kaufmann 4:25 Yeah, I will say, Charlie, that the one thing that grabbed our attention, I think, was looking at what Axios was doing with newsletters—not just in the local markets, but what they were doing with Mike Allen and others who do the national newsletters—is they really did feel like a written talk show. And if you look at Mike’s Axios AM, that’s what it is. Mike is hosting a talk show—he’s doing articles instead of segments—but it really had this vibe, this energy to it. He’s connecting to his readers. He’s engaging, he’s going back and forth. It reminded me a lot of what I was doing at WGN Radio when I was doing a WBEZ with Reset. So it was an easy opportunity when they said they wanted to do it for Chicago, you know, it was a, it was a no-brainer to say, “OK, well, you know, could you do a talk show in an email format?” And that’s what we’ve been, that’s really our ethos, our mission statement, our philosophy, Monica and I, that this is a talk show in an email format, and it seems to be working. Eng 5:19 In fact, when we are when we’re over length on these newsletters, Justin’s like, “Oh, we gotta cut it for time.” I’m like, “Justin, we’re not doing radio.” Kaufmann 5:28 It’s hard to lose the little radio things like “cut for time.” “Listeners,” I always— Our readers are listeners, I always say that. Meyerson 5:37 It’s easy to get those mixed up. You know, sharing some of that same professional DNA with you guys, I know that one of the hardest things I find in creating an email newsletter is deciding what not to put in. Because, as Monica has said, there’s no time restriction, there’s no length restriction, and deciding what doesn’t go in is harder than deciding what does go in. How do you wrestle with that? Eng 6:00 Well, we do have a length: Nothing over 950 words. But that does make it harder. I mean, Chicago is full of, you know, a million stories in the naked city. And so how do you choose, you know, four or five a day? It’s a terrible Sophie’s choice to make. Kaufmann 6:16 That has been an issue where I think a lot of the editors and everyone were like, “You know, you’re gonna have to do this every day, you’re gonna watch out— Finding content will be an issue.” For Monica and I—because we’ve covered the city for years, and you know, this, Charlie; I read your newsletters and same idea—you could do 50 stories, you could do 100 stories. I mean, there’s— time is nothing, so you’re just like, yeah, every night at 10 o’clock, after we put the thing to bed, I’m like, “Darn it, we didn’t talk about this, or we didn’t do this.” And that reminds me of when I worked at ’BEZ and ’GN as well, where you would be down on yourself because you missed the topic that you think Chicago wanted to talk about. Meyerson 6:52 As we record this August 22, 2022, you’ve been with Axios just a bit more than a year. What’s been a high point of that year or so with Axios? Kaufmann 7:00 I think, to me, the highlight has been just connecting with Chicago readers. I would have never thought this would be this successful. I mean, at the time we tape this, we’re over 80,000 people who are signed up for it. The open rate is way above the average. And people are engaging and sending us emails on a daily basis on every story we do. It’s way more than I ever had at WGN or WBEZ. I think that that has much to do with the format—I mean, people at their computers are like I can easily respond to this. But that has been the high point to me is watching that sort of evolved engagement from some of the other things that were— I mean, you know, Charlie, talk radio is all about engaged. So by getting people on the phone, like, that’s where it’s supposed— you think that’s ingrained in the secret sauce of an AM talk radio station like WGN, but this supersized it. We’re talking hundreds and hundreds of emails and people who want to engage. Eng 7:56 They can be overwhelming at times—because, yeah, it’s like, “Oh, I want to respond to all 150 people who wrote to us today sharing you

  3. 08/10/2021

    WTTW’s new stars navigate changing news landscape

    Odds are good you didn’t know their names a decade ago, when one of them was just breaking into Chicago radio news and another was barely removed from an internship at Chicago’s public TV station. And now they’re two of the city’s most influential journalists. In another edition of the Chicago Public Square / Rivet360 podcast, Chicago Media Talks, WTTW News’ multiple award-winning reporters and Chicago Tonight co-anchors, Brandis Friedman and Paris Schutz, talk about their careers, the challenges facing local news and recent turbulent times at Channel 11. Listen in your favorite podcast player, via Spotify, YouTube and Pandora, on Amazon’s Alexa-powered speakers or on Apple Podcasts (say “Hey, Siri! Play Chicago Public Square Podcasts”). ■ Enjoying these podcasts? Keep them coming by joining The Legion of Chicago Public Squarians.■ And consider subscribing—free—to the daily Chicago Public Square email newsletter.And now, courtesy of Eric Zorn and Otter.ai, here’s an extremely rough transcript of the show: Charlie Meyerson 00:00Odds are good you didn’t know their names a decade ago when one of them was just breaking into Chicago radio news and another was barely removed from an internship at Chicago’s public TV station. And now they’re two of the city’s most influential journalists. Brandis Friedman 00:14The truth is I never would have chosen Chicago for myself until I did. Paris Schutz 00:18I thought, “At some point, my internship is going to end, and they’re going to hire me and pay me.” Charlie Meyerson 00:23Brandis Friedman and Paris Shutz are multiple award-winning reporters and co-anchors for WTTW television’s signature broadcast Chicago Tonight. I’m Charlie Meyerson with Rivet 360 and ChicagoPublicSquare.com. And this is Chicago Media Talks, a show in which people in Chicago media talk about Chicago media. Here’s my co-host, my friend and my Rivet 360 colleague, journalism strategist Sheila Solomon. Sheila Solomon 00:51How is Chicago Tonight different from other local news shows in Chicago? Brandis Friedman 00:57We e get this question a lot, and Paris can address this as well, I think we try to spend more time on our subject matter. And, no disrespect to our colleagues at the commercial TV stations, you know, there’s a place for each of us in this market. But what’s different is, we spend more time on our subjects. So a report or package, maybe 3, 4, 5 minutes versus the minute, minute-and-a-half that you’d probably get at other stations. So that we can let it breathe, and provide a bit more context, sometimes analysis. You’ll notice that we do a lot of talk segments, so that we can balance out a segment or just explore whatever the topic might be from different viewpoints. And allow folks to really share more of whatever it is we might be talking about that night. And, in addition to the politics, and the education and the business, and all that stuff that we cover, we also give a good bit of time to the arts. We have an arts producer here as well as an arts reporter. And so we get to showcase not just the big arts organizations in town that we all know about, like Joffrey or Lyric or Chicago Symphony, but these two producers are really good at finding the arts stories that you have not heard about and bringing those to our audiences as well. Paris Schutz 02:09Our goal is to have our audience understand what’s happening in Chicago and Illinois and the world at large. And following the mission of WTTW, to leave you enriched, to leave you feeling like you’re more connected to your community. So we’re not out there to chase ambulances or cover every single crime or police chase that happens. But if we do cover crime, we want to talk about it in a way that will help people understand this as an issue, help people maybe empathize with what’s happening. And then talk about what stakeholders are talking about as solutions. Charlie Meyerson 02:53WTTW has gone through some big changes in the months leading up to your ascendance as co-anchors of Chicago Tonight. You lost a news director—forced out after just about a year on the job— and Phil Ponce and Carol Marin stepped down from their roles as two of the key faces of the station’s news coverage. How’s that affected the show? And WTTW News overall? Paris Schutz 03:11Well, we’re just the last ones standing, Charlie. No, I mean, it’s certainly affected, I would say workplace morale a little bit. But at the end of the day, we do the same show that we always have. And we have the same goals that we always have. And we’re out there distracted by the reporting, and by the journalism, and by all the news that we have to report on and put into context. So the mission never changed through all of that. And you mentioned Phil and Carol being gone. They’re part of the DNA of Chicago Tonight, just like John Callaway, who started the show. So they’re very influential on what we do now. And I always just try to think about what Phil would do in a certain situation, or what Carol would do, or even what John Callaway would do. So, it’s kind of like a family, you know, all these things are sort of passed down through the generations and the show really hasn’t changed much. I mean, it might look a little different, that tone might be a little different. But those North stars are still exactly the same as what John Callaway wanted, and what Phil did, and what Carol did, and even to an extent, Bob Sirrott. And some of the other folks that have been associated with the show, are Eddie Arruzza, Elizabeth Brackett. And, as Brandis said, the quality in-depth journalism, the context that we’re providing, and the goal to really inform the community and make them feel connected to the city. Brandis Friedman 04:40There have been some changes. But to the credit of our colleagues, everyone has really kept their heads down and focused on the work. And I don’t think any of us allowed ourselves to really be distracted by any of that other stuff that was going on. Obviously, everybody noticed it. We all recognize it, but that wasn’t really the focus. We kept our focus on the work. And with regard to Phil and Carol moving on to their next chapters, everything that Paris said is true. But Phil slowly started to step back little by little a couple of years ago, and Paris and I were given the opportunity to start stepping in and filling in at that point, I think probably with the intention that at some point if Phil was ready to move on from hosting every night with regularity that Paris and I would be prepared to try and fill his shoes. I don’t think that we can necessarily it takes two of us to do it. But I think we’ve been given ample time to prepare for this moment, Paris Schutz 05:37It feels like we’ve been in these roles for a long time. And it doesn’t, it doesn’t feel like it happened overnight or anything. It feels like we’ve been doing this for a while and getting our sea legs under us to take the baton, if you will. Sheila Solomon 05:53So how do you see Chicago Tonight changing on your watch? Brandis Friedman 05:56 I feel like the show is not necessarily mine to change. Only that, you know, we are very collaborative here. I think all of us take a lot of ownership on this show. And so at the moment, I don’t predict any major changes. Obviously, I think all of us think there are ways we can work to be better or different or to improve or provide our audiences with something more, something different. Over the last year. It is obvious with the expansion to the other shows, “Chicago Tonight Latino Voices” on Saturday and “Chicago Tonight Black Voices” on Sundays, it is clear that we have included and diversified our coverage a little bit more— right? — covering those communities that as evidenced by what we saw last summer did not feel they had been covered and heard enough. And so I think we’ll definitely keep that going. Obviously. Paris Schutz 06:45I agree with Brandis there. And I’ll just add that, as a staff, I think we’ve started to talk a little bit about the big picture, long term. How can we meet our mission best in this day and age as things change as platforms change? I think it’s really good to every now and then to inventory here at Chicago Tonight and ask what is it we’re doing well, what it is we can improve on? Do we need to change some things? So I can tell you that we are having some of those discussions. There might be things that we want to change, we just don’t know what those are yet. The North stars don’t change, we want to remain balanced. We want to remain a place where everybody can trust the information. And in this day and age trust is so important when you have such a bifurcated media, landscape and social media where everybody’s just kind of turning to, whatever satisfies their preconceived bias. I’ll say personally, I feel an added responsibility that we need to be the vanguard of that traditional sense of y journalism and trustworthy journalism and balanced journalism that everybody no matter what your opinions are, or what your ideologies are can trust to get reliable information. Charlie Meyerson 08:12Paris, you started at WTTW as an intern in 2005. Back then, what was your dream job? Paris Schutz 08:50Well, I at some point, my internship is going to end and they’re going to hire me and pay me. No, I’m kidding, Charlie. At that point, I did not know what my dream job was. I actually intended to do documentaries, be a filmmaker. I’m also a musician and thought maybe I’d do that as a career. I really was kind of all over the place. But the internship with Chicago Tonight—and by the way, I applied to intern with Chicago Stories, which was a documentary unit that we had at the time. But they didn’t need an intern, so they sent me to Chicago Tonight which did need an intern, I was like, “OK, I guess I’ll do that.

Ratings & Reviews

3.4
out of 5
16 Ratings

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Award-winning journalist Charlie Meyerson talks to people about stuff. Contact: Meyerson@gmail.com.

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