Conversations as you Go Dave Lawton

In this episode we are talking to Dave Coles, hearing about his exciting new book release, ‘Cabbages in the Desert: How God transformed a devout Muslim and Catalyzed Disciple Making Movements among Unreached Peoples'. This is the story of Aila Tasse from East Africa who we have been hearing from in recent podcasts (see Aila's list of podcasts at the bottom of these show notes).















Cabbages in the Desert is now available in both a hard or soft copy here.















Dave Coles also returns to speak with us after sharing back in episode 16 about his other great book, ‘The Bhojpuri Breakthrough: A Movement that Keeps Multiplying'.







Why another book?







Dave Coles shares how ‘The Bhojpuri Breakthrough’ is a movement case study specific to just one movement that is happening amongst Hindus in India. More in depth stories of what is really happening amongst other movements, particularly amongst Muslims is needed. 







Movement is never one size fits all. 'Cabbages in the Desert' shares how God is involved in movements across many different contexts but with the same DNA principles of DMM. 







Aila’s story is also powerful and unique since it describes a movement amongst Muslims with some identity and clarity to it. A timely case study for those who are perhaps suspicious as to whether movement is really happening amongst Muslims today.







“I don’t want to be made into a Christian”







We can see a difference in the roles of an 'inside' compared to an 'outside' leader in DMM:







When Aila first heard the Gospel, his response was, “I don’t want to be made into a Christian”. However, his powerful testimony describes a slow transition to follow Jesus as a devout Muslim searching for forgiveness. In fact he initially made fun of his Christian teacher. Yet this faithful teacher was still used by God as an ‘outsider’ to impact Aila as a spiritually zealous young Muslim.







From decision making to disciple making







Aila vulnerably models obedience to God’s call from his story:







Despite his existing fruitful ministry and initially criticising DMM, God encountered Aila in the back of a plane saying, “You need to listen” (to a DMM training from David Watson). Aila humbled himself and obeyed God’s clear call as God gave him the vision of seeing ‘Cabbages in the Desert’. Aila realised that God was calling him to something bigger than what he could do with his current ministry models. For example, one of the paradigm shifts Aila needed to make was from decision making to disciple making.







“Sometimes they meet under a tree”







When describing the evolution of his own thinking of church, Aila mentions:







“Some people call them 'house churches' but in our context sometimes they meet under a tree. These are still real churches since they fit a biblical criteria of what it means to be church." Along with his co-workers, Aila describes church as “Where the people of God are gathering”. They point to Acts 2 (vs 42-47) that describes the things the church did. These days we see a variety of models of biblical ecclesiology coming out of a variety of these East African contexts and movements.  







Dave Coles also illustrates the clear difference between our western culture and models of individualistic evangelism, discipleship and fellowship and the more collective culture and approach to discipleship amongst these African movements.







Word of encouragement from Dave Coles







Dave wants us to be encouraged that God is doing amazing things amongst Muslims and that movement...

In this episode we conclude our series from our Launch 24 program with an awesome word from Pastor Graham Wilson, one of our Praxeis board members. Graham speaks into our sense of 'ordinariness' and feelings of disqualification compared to the greatness of Jesus and his great commission. 







“When we look back on our lives, God has been relentless about his purposes being worked out in our lives despite our own sense of ordinariness.”







Prophetic words from Launch 24







“Worship me by stepping into what I’ve called you to, even if it’s messy and uncomfortable.” 







“I love you and have chosen you. You might feel inadequate and that it’s impossible. But know that I love you and there’s nothing too difficult for me.” 







“Be still and know that I am fighting for you.” 







Fireside restoration







Graham leads us into Peter’s encounter with Jesus including his great failure when he denies Jesus around a fire. In John 21, Jesus recreates the fire of Peter’s failure when he meets him beside the same lake where he first called him. It’s in this context where Jesus reinstates and also calls Peter to once again “Follow me”. 







Graham asks us three questions (from John 21:15, 20-22): 







Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?” “Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Then feed my lambs.”







Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them…he asked, “Lord, what about him?” Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.”









What if Jesus is asking you, “Do you love me more than these?”. I wonder what the ‘these’ would be for you?. 







Jesus follows this question saying “Then…”. What is his ‘then’ for you?’







What do you need to stop looking at in other peoples lives so you can be enabled to simply follow Jesus?

















Why not listen to this word from Graham a couple of times, allowing it to feed your heart? Then think about the times when you needed Jesus to bring you around his fire of restoration. To not just be forgiven but called by him. Allow him to bring purpose, hope and destiny to your life again as his follower. 















Graham's recommended resources:







‘Receive’ song by Cyndi Ruakere: listen via Spotify here







'Lectio 365' daily prayer & devotion







Praying like Monks, living like Fools (Tyler Staton)

We continue our series from the Launch program with Dave sharing this episode on the power of prayer in seeing breakthrough for our cities. Be inspired to prioritise prayer afresh as Dave calls us to be part of the ‘Pray for 8’ vision God has for our cities as we gather this Pentecost weekend (17-19 May). 







Building an alter of prayer







Drawing from his past frustrations and experience, Dave paints the somber picture of the spiritually dry landscape of Australia (and the west). The current reality of the continuing decline of the church in Australia should deeply disturb us as Jesus’ disciples. Our response as one fiery Indian pastor once prophesied to Dave is to 'build an alter of prayer’.  







Vision of the invasion of God’s Spirit







While sitting in his lounge room during a season of prayer and fasting, God showed Dave a doorway and invited him to step through it. So he did and this is what he saw: 







“I saw a picture of the ongoing spiritual battle (fire and raging tempest) in the heavenly realms and above this was the kingdom of God. From the battle a spiral like a tornado (the invasion of the Holy Spirit) connected directly to a small group of believers praying together on earth. There was not just one of these invasions of the Holy Spirit but many. All were connected to believers who were praying right across the globe.” 







Addressing our cities’ strongholds







Dave shares some miraculous stories from the city of Mumbai during his time in India. All from a group of people intentionally surrounding the city in prayer!







“We are praying for Acts 2 to happen. For an outpouring of the Spirit and for Ekklesia to start and multiply. God did this in the book of Acts in city after city through people like Paul who said, ‘From Jerusalem all the way around to Illyricum, I have fully proclaimed the gospel…now there is no place left for me to work in these regions’ (Romans 15:19,23). This was because Paul had established multiplying hubs of discipleship. So let’s do it! Let’s go and pray for the cities. For a multiplying movement to take place.”  







Our response? 







If you want to be part of ‘Pray for 8’ this Pentecost weekend in an Aussie capital city, contact us to find out how you can get involved!

In this episode, we will hear from Brian and Klaus from when they shared at our February Launch gathering. Brian begins by sharing the current picture in Canberra. It feels bleak as they look at the numbers of people attending church. It is an even more despairing picture when they look at the number of people actively engaging almost lost people as disciple-makers. 







But God has given them a vision and has been taking the whole church on a journey, challenging their understanding of how to make disciples. He has been leading them to lay down old ways of doing things to pick up new ways that He is teaching them. 







“We have to unlearn a bunch of things and we don’t even know what we gotta unlearn.”







So what has shifted?









Building focus to field focus (being where the people are)







Charismatic leader focus to ordinary people doing the work







Prayer - making prayer the priority to receive love, faith, guidance and power for the next steps (the harp and the sword)







Moving away from a sermon-focus to interactive accountability to God’s word and Spirit by all people







A greater allegiance to Jesus as King







Moving from information focus to discovery and obedience. 







From a Sunday focus to being a disciple every day of the week







From being a self-serving community to an outward focused community 









As you finish listening to this journey, take a few minutes to ask yourself, what are the things that you and your community need to lay down so that you can pick up the new things that God has for you? What are the bold and courageous steps that God is asking you to take?









https://vimeo.com/927840111

We catch up with Brian and Klaus from Grace Church Canberra at our Launch gathering in Melbourne to hear their journey of the paradigm shifts that they and their local church has gone through as they completely embrace DMM.  















View this interview as a video here.















These guys represent the Crosslink network of more than 160 churches around Australia and have a vision as a local church of seeing the whole of Canberra reached. 







They share how their journey into DMM included being struck by and influenced by people like Chris Galanos and his faith and expensive obedience steps to reach a million people in ten years.







Paradigm shifts to DMM







As seasoned pastors, Brian and Klaus tell us how they have had to lay down 









A focus on numbers and a service.







Sermons, knowing preaching won’t transform people’s heart and lifestyle. 







The idea of church, shifting it a smaller group, determined to follow Christ. 







Their status as the key leaders where everyone depends on them. 







All the tools they had acquired so they can pick up new ones. 







An old lifestyle to embrace a new way of life, practicing being a disciple maker themselves.







Old goals to set new ones all about multiplication. 









Brian says, 







“Multiplying generations of disciples is our biggest but our most worthy challenge”.







Shifting to DBS







Brian shares how he realised one day that he had been selling the scriptures short. 







“If you let the scriptures do their own work, they can lift somebody from wherever they are into the presence of God”. 







Ordinary people







Grace church is one of the only churches Brian knows of in the world that have completely transitioned to everyone in the church embracing DMM. This has seen the whole church become a team of disciples makers, engaging in places like local parks and homes. 







Brian says, 







“We don’t want anyone sitting in the stands. We want them sitting on the bench or engaged on the field. We know that if we as a congregation of ordinary people can see some kind of movement in one part of Canberra, then this will encourage others to do it in other parts of the city.”







Final words of encouragement







Klaus finishes saying, 







“Ordinary people, not just evangelists, can learn to walk with Jesus one step at a time”. 







Brian closes saying, 







“The heart of God is for all people. He has given us as the family of God the opportunity to reach all the people who are estranged from his family. This isn’t just an event. It is a process toward a lifestyle of fruitfulness that is reproducible without any limit”. 









https://vimeo.com/919113480/9f1b71c23d

We reconnect with Mike Hey at our 'Launch 24' gathering in Melbourne. In this episode Mike shares with us some of his history, serving with OM and highlights some of the principles of seeing DMM catalysed in a multicultural city like Adelaide.















To see this podcast as a video, click here















Seeing DMM in Adelaide







Mike has a vision for Adelaide as a house of prayer for all nations. He shares how planting simple and reproducible churches starts with prayer. Mike joins with others and they pray for their neighbourhoods, asking God how they can be a blessing. 







For example, on many occasions, Mike tells us how they find themselves simply asking people to the park for a BBQ. Spiritual conversations are had and some begin to invite Mike and the team into their homes where they seek to gather for DBS (Discovery Bible Study).







Mike says how one of his friends came and said, “I don’t want to take a leap of faith but I’m curious about Jesus”. After doing a DBS, he was asked what he will do with what he had learnt. In response he said, “I’m going to share this story with my friends who are gamers”. Mike encouraged him to return and tell the group how it went. 







Mike says every neighbourhood of Adelaide can be a house of prayer wherever a follower of Jesus lives. Starting new churches is as simple as praying, blessing, finding a person of peace* and using the DBS to form a new community of faith. 







Mike's final encouragement







"Trust that God can use you. That as you step outside your door, you can pray, "God be gracious to and bless every one on this street. Cause your face to shine on every Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Agnostic, Atheistic and even Christian who has lost their way. So we together would turn back to Jesus and follow him and be obedience and make disciples of all nations."















*Mike defines a person of peace as someone who is receptive to God and shares what they are learning with their relational network.