Doula That!

Ravae Sinclair & Denise Bolds

We are experienced birth workers with diverse careers, bringing decades of expertise to the world of birth, babies, and families. Join us on this journey as we delve deep into the realms of birth, postpartum care, and the business aspects of this incredible field. Our aim is to shed light on the unfiltered realities of birth work and guide you through building a successful birthing career.

  1. Part 2 of 3: 2 Hours, 2 Doulas & 2 Doctors: The Truth Behind the Headlines

    MAR 25

    Part 2 of 3: 2 Hours, 2 Doulas & 2 Doctors: The Truth Behind the Headlines

    In Part 2 of this powerful three-part series, we continue the firsthand account from Shira Lawrence and Jet’aime McKinney as they navigate an increasingly complex and high-stakes hospital experience during a birth in Georgia. What begins as a moment of hope—with a provider finally listening—quickly shifts into a deeper examination of power, bias, and control within the hospital system. This episode captures the tension between advocacy and authority, and what it means to support a laboring mother while systems actively resist that support. What You’ll Hear in This EpisodeA rare moment of alignment with a provider who listens—and why it matteredThe role of the anesthesiologist in shifting the trajectory of careHow doulas are perceived, dismissed, and sometimes erased in clinical spacesThe critical importance of advocacy when a client cannot advocate for themselvesThe emotional and psychological labor of doulas during prolonged, high-pressure situationsHospital policies vs. practice: how “rules” are inconsistently appliedThe escalation from support to surveillance—and the introduction of hospital securityThe moment advocacy becomes risk—and the fear that enters the room Key Themes & Takeaways1. Advocacy vs. Authority Even when care is medically appropriate, access can be delayed or denied based on provider bias or resistance. 2. The Doula’s Role Is Not Optional—It’s Essential This episode reinforces why families choose doulas: for advocacy, clarity, and grounded support in moments where systems become overwhelming. 3. Bias in Real Time Listeners will hear how bias shows up not just in decisions—but in tone, access, communication, and escalation. 4. Emotional Labor of Birth Workers Beyond physical support, doulas are navigating systems, protecting clients, and managing their own safety simultaneously. 5. Systems Under Pressure Reveal Truth Moments of stress expose how institutions operate—and who they prioritize. Where We Leave OffThis episode ends in the middle of an intense and unfolding situation: The client is in active labor without pain managementHospital dynamics have escalatedSecurity has entered the roomThe doulas are being confronted and pressured to leave Part 3 will take you into the final removal, the aftermath, and the lasting psychological impact of this experience—along with what ultimately happened to mom and baby. Content NoteThis episode contains descriptions of medical stress, confrontation, and systemic challenges within birth settings. Listener discretion is advised. Stay Connected🔔 Subscribe to the Doula That! Podcast 📲 Follow for more conversations on birth work, advocacy, and maternal health 🌐 www.doulathatpodcast.com, IG:@DoulaThatPodcast, YouTube: Doula That! Podcast Join the ConversationWhat stood out to you in this episode? Have you experienced or witnessed similar dynamics in birth spaces? Drop your thoughts in the comments—we want to hear from you.

    56 min
  2. 2 Hours, 2 Doulas & 2 Doctors: The Truth Behind the Headlines (pt. 1)

    MAR 23

    2 Hours, 2 Doulas & 2 Doctors: The Truth Behind the Headlines (pt. 1)

    Co-Hosts:Ravae Sinclair, JD, CLC, PBD(NBPP), PPD(NBPP) Dr. Denise Bolds doulathatpodcast@gmail.com Episode SummaryWe’re relaunching the Doula That! Podcast with a conversation that requires depth, context, and care. In this episode, we sit down with Black doulas Shira Lawrence and Jet’aime McKinney to begin unpacking the story behind a viral video showing their removal from a hospital birth. This is Part 1 of a 3-part series, where we intentionally move beyond headlines and social media assumptions to center their lived experience, professional insight, and the full context of what occurred. This episode lays the foundation—who they are, how they practice, and what led up to the hospital encounter. What You’ll Hear in This EpisodeThe intention behind this conversation: listening over speculationShira and Jet’aime’s backgrounds in education, birth work, and community careWhat it means to serve families in a maternal health desertThe client’s journey navigating limited provider options in rural GeorgiaWhy the family made the decision to travel to the Atlanta area for birthThe behind-the-scenes realities of doula support (logistics, planning, advocacy)How hospital systems operate through hierarchy, policy, and liabilityEarly signs of bias, miscommunication, and resistance in triageThe critical moment when a breech diagnosis shifts the course of careThe client’s clear request for pain management vs. provider insistence on cesarean Key ThemesPatient Autonomy vs. Hospital PolicyBias and Communication in Birth SpacesThe Role of Doulas as Advocates and Care PartnersAccess Gaps in Rural Maternal HealthcareWhat Happens When Systems Don’t Listen About Our GuestsShira Lawrence Birth & Postpartum Doula, Trainer, and Childbirth Educator. Founder of a nonprofit supporting vulnerable teenage girls. Serves families in maternal health deserts, often navigating high-risk and limited-access environments. Jet’aime McKinney Birth & Postpartum Doula, Agency Owner, and Educator based in Metro Atlanta. Former educator turned full-time birth worker after a personal birth experience transformed her path. Supports families through advocacy, education, and community-centered care. Important ContextThis episode is grounded in the doulas’ firsthand account. We are not providing legal advice or speaking on behalf of the hospital or medical team. Our goal is to create space for clarity, understanding, and informed dialogue. Continue the ConversationThis is Part 1 of a 3-part series. 👉 Part 2 drops soon—be sure to subscribe and turn on notifications so you don’t miss what happens next.

    1h 9m
  3. 11/13/2024

    Member Meeting???

    Member Meeting ????Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discussed their observations from a recent meeting of DONA International, a nonprofit organization for doulas. They highlighted issues such as the lack of transparency, missing meeting minutes for three years, and inconsistencies in financial reporting. They noted that DONA's membership has declined from 7,000 to around 2,700 certified members in two years, and its revenue has dropped significantly. They also criticized the lack of translation services and the rushed certification process, which may compromise quality. They emphasized the need for transparency and accountability in doula organizations and announced plans to provide a resource for informed consumer decisions. ResourcesClick here to find an organization's 990 tax filings to verify the financial information shared.Here's a resource to provide more transparency and information about doula and birth worker training organizations. OutlineMeeting Introduction and PurposeRavae Sinclair and Denise Bolds introduce themselves and acknowledge the post-election energy.The meeting is focused on observations from a recent meeting of an organization they were previously leaders of.Ravae emphasizes the importance of transparency for nonprofit organizations, especially regarding financial and membership information.The goal is to provide feedback and create accountability within the organization, Dona International. Observations on Transparency and Meeting MinutesDenise Bolds discusses the annual member meeting, highlighting the lack of transparency in posting meeting minutes and budgets.The organization claims to be transparent, but Denise notes that meeting minutes and agendas have not been posted in several years.Denise mentions that she kept slides from the meeting to track information and questions the organization's financial health.Ravae and Denise express concern about the inconsistencies in the organization's claims of transparency. Certification and Membership NumbersDenise shares a screen to present certification and membership numbers, revealing a significant drop in certified doulas since 2017.The organization claims to have over 2000 birth doulas and just over 500 postpartum doulas certified.Ravae and Denise discuss the importance of these numbers and the discrepancy between the organization's claims and actual figures.They note that the organization's membership has been declining, especially in Canada, due to unmet needs and issues with the organization. Financial Health and RevenueRavae discusses the organization's financial health, noting that it was once a million-dollar company but is now losing ground.The organization's revenue has decreased significantly, with a drop of $300,000 to $400,000 in the past two years.Ravae explains that the organization's revenue comes primarily from membership dues and trainer fees, with a recent change requiring trainers to pay per head.Despite the changes, the organization's financial situation remains precarious, with lower revenue than in previous years. Lack of Translation and Language BarriersRavae and Denise highlight the organization's failure to provide translations in Spanish and other languages, despite having Spanish-speaking members and leaders.They mention that the organization has had Spanish-speaking presidents in the past but has not translated materials into Spanish.The lack of translation services has led to disenfranchised members and a lack of access to important information.Ravae and Denise emphasize the importance of translation for inclusivity and effective communication within the organization. Election Process and Leadership ConcernsRavae and Denise discuss the recent election process, noting the lack of transparency and engagement.There was no information provided about the candidates, and the election was conducted with only one candidate for president.Denise expresses concern about the new president, Erica, who lacks prior board experience and leadership skills.Ravae and Denise argue that the organization's leadership changes have been made without proper member involvement or transparency. Missing Meeting Minutes and Bylaw ChangesRavae shares that meeting minutes have been missing for three full years on Dona Connect, preventing members from knowing what decisions were made.They discuss the lack of transparency in the election process and the changes to the organization's bylaws without member awareness or input.Ravae mentions that the Director of Communications, Joyce Dagma, claimed that the agenda for meetings is confidential, further reducing transparency.The lack of meeting minutes and transparency in bylaws changes has left members in the dark about important decisions and policies. Integrity of Certification ProcessRavae and Denise discuss concerns about the integrity of the certification process, noting that it has been made easier and faster.They mention that some doulas are falsifying their certification documents to meet requirements, leading to a lack of accountability.The rush to make the certification process easier has compromised the quality and integrity of the certification.Ravae and Denise emphasize the importance of having qualified doulas to ensure the safety and well-being of clients. Call to Action for MembersRavae and Denise encourage members to be more engaged and hold the organization accountable for transparency and integrity.They stress the importance of asking questions and pushing back against the organization's decisions.Ravae and Denise highlight the need for transparency in financial reports, membership numbers, and certification processes.They emphasize that members should be responsible and hold the organization to a higher standard for the benefit of the profession. Conclusion and Future PlansRavae and Denise conclude the meeting by reiterating their commitment to transparency and accountability.They mention that they are working on a resource to provide more information and transparency for members and potential members.The resource will help consumers make informed decisions about doula training organizations.Ravae and Denise thank the audience for joining and express their willingness to help members navigate the organization.

    31 min
  4. 11/09/2024

    Be Aware of Scammers

    Be Aware of Scammers! Ravae Sinclair, a co-host of the Doula That podcast, shares her experience of being scammed by Augustine Colebrook, who promised a retreat for birth workers. Ravae paid $1,400 for a retreat scheduled for November 2024, but it was changed to February 2025, which was unacceptable. Despite multiple requests for a refund, Colebrook delayed and eventually took an additional $600 without authorization. Ravae emphasizes the importance of being informed consumers, using business credit cards for transactions, and the need for clear communication from service providers. She urges others to be cautious and to support her in recovering her money. Ravae Sinclair @birthconnections @natlbirthpostpartumpros Augustine Colebrook @artofbirthing @midwiferywisdom Youtube:https://youtu.be/535CkMmvlgs?si=uCPE37UE6u1vyNv- Outline Scammers in the Birth Space Ravae Sinclair introduces herself and the topic of scammers in the birth space.She mentions that she and her co-host Denise have been impacted by scammers, with her matter still unresolved.Ravae emphasizes that it's important to speak out if one has been scammed to prevent others from falling victim.She encourages birth workers not to feel shame if they have been scammed, as it's not their fault. The Scam Story Begins Ravae shares a story about planning to attend a retreat with her co-host Denise, inspired by a promotional ad.They made payments from January to June, expecting a retreat in November, but received no updates or communication.In July, they learned the conference in New Orleans had changed to virtual, raising suspicions about the retreat.The retreat dates were later changed to February 2025, which was unacceptable for Ravae due to her schedule and client commitments. Attempts to Get a Refund Ravae and Denise reached out to Augustine Colebrook, the organizer, requesting a refund due to the significant date change.Augustine agreed to the refund but delayed it, initially saying it would be at the end of November.Denise's company was able to get provisional credit back on her credit card, but Ravae's payments were made through a business debit card, making it harder to challenge.Despite multiple emails and requests, Augustine did not provide the refund or communicate effectively. The Scam Escalates In October, Ravae discovered an unauthorized $600 charge from Augustine, under a different business name.She had to cancel her debit card to prevent further unauthorized charges.Ravae expressed deep disappointment and frustration, especially seeing Augustine's social media posts about her activities in Bali while not returning the money.She emphasized the importance of being an informed consumer and the need for better communication and transparency from service providers. Final Plea and Lessons Learned Ravae urged listeners to be cautious and informed when making purchases, especially in the birth space.She shared her frustration and the emotional toll of being scammed, especially by someone who claimed to be an ally.Ravae highlighted the importance of having a business credit card for transactions to have advocacy and protection.She called on listeners to support her in getting her money back and to be vigilant about who they do business with.

    26 min
  5. 11/08/2024

    The Day After The Day After The Election

    The Day After The Day After The Election Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the emotional and physical impact of the 2024 U.S. presidential election, expressing feelings of betrayal and fear for the future. They highlight the potential loss of reproductive rights and privacy due to the Supreme Court's conservative leanings and the erosion of bodily autonomy. They also address the broader implications for healthcare, particularly the shortage of medical professionals and the challenges faced by immigrants. The conversation emphasizes the importance of community, support for birth workers, and the need for systemic change to protect reproductive health and access to quality care.   Co-Hosts Ravae Sinclair @birthconnections @natlbirthpostpartumpros Denise Bolds @bolddoula @blackwomendovbac   Show Links TikTok link in the show notes about an interview with a white nationalist.Become a member of National Birth and Postpartum Professionals Organization. Outline Impact of the Election on Personal Well-being Ravae Sinclair expresses her emotional state, mentioning she has "all the feels" and is struggling to find words.Denise Bolds shares her physical and emotional symptoms, feeling unwell and comparing the impact of the election results to past elections.Ravae Sinclair discusses the broader impact of American elections on the world and the importance of voting.Both hosts reflect on feeling betrayed and the fear of losing freedoms and equity gained. Personal and Professional Reactions to the Election Denise Bolds describes her experience in New York City, particularly during the pandemic, and her triggering feelings upon hearing the election results.Denise Bolds emphasizes her concerns as a black woman and birth worker, highlighting the impact of the election on her family and her profession.Ravae Sinclair discusses the potential loss of reproductive rights and the impact of the Supreme Court's decisions on privacy rights.Both hosts express their frustration and anger over the election outcome and its implications for future generations. Impact on Reproductive Rights and Healthcare Ravae Sinclair explains the potential long-term impact of the Supreme Court's decisions on reproductive rights and privacy.The conversation touches on the erosion of privacy rights and the potential for a lifetime appointment of Supreme Court justices.Ravae Sinclair discusses the challenges faced by women seeking medical care during the pandemic and the impact of heartbeat laws.Denise Bolds shares her personal experience with miscarriages and the suffering women endure due to lack of access to necessary medical care. Challenges Faced by Birth Workers and Medical Professionals Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the challenges faced by birth workers and medical professionals, particularly in the context of the pandemic.The conversation highlights the impact of immigration policies on the healthcare system and the shortage of medical professionals.Ravae Sinclair shares a story from a Facebook group about the difficulties faced by women seeking medical care in states with strict abortion laws.Both hosts emphasize the importance of access to quality healthcare and the role of birth workers in supporting women during pregnancy and childbirth. Future of Reproductive Rights and Healthcare Access Ravae Sinclair discusses the potential long-term impact of the Supreme Court's decisions on reproductive rights and healthcare access.The conversation touches on the importance of judicial appointments and the potential for change in the healthcare system.Ravae Sinclair emphasizes the need for systemic change to protect reproductive rights and ensure access to quality healthcare.Both hosts express their commitment to supporting birth workers and advocating for reproductive rights and healthcare access. Community and Support for Birth Workers Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the importance of community and support for birth workers in the face of challenges.The conversation highlights the role of organizations like the National Birth and Postpartum Professionals Organization in supporting birth workers.Both hosts emphasize the need for well-versed and well-supported birth workers to meet the needs of families in America.The conversation concludes with a call to action for birth workers to join supportive communities and advocate for reproductive rights and healthcare access.

    31 min
  6. 08/26/2024

    3 Months!

    Personal updates, business growth, and nonprofit work. Ravae and Denise are back after a 3-month break, catching up with listeners.They discuss their busy schedules, podcast hiatus, and future plans.Denise Bolds shares updates on her personal and professional life, including travel and business growth.Ravae Sinclair expands agency, launches online training programs, and supports nonprofit while taking breaks and enjoying personal time.Post-pandemic changes in the birthing space, including increased inductions and doula burnout. 7:33Denise Bolds highlights post-pandemic changes in the birthing space, including increased inductions, doula burnout, and hospital closures.Ravae Sinclair seeks Denise's insights on the energy and vibe in the birth world since the pandemic, with a focus on shifting dynamics and professionals leaving their roles.Birth workers' experiences with social media and reproductive rights. 10:28Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the importance of Facebook groups for doulas, providing emotional and financial support.Doulas need community building and connection, which Facebook groups can offer, despite being isolated in their work.Ravae Sinclair observes growth in realization of the impact of reproductive rights loss on birth workers, with some feeling the pinch and others seeking business building skills.Ravae Sinclair sees some people pulling back from social media due to life's challenges, while others continue to vocalize their opinions and priorities.The state of the birth world, including burnout, lack of leadership, and traumatic birth experiences. 15:10Ravae and Denise discuss the importance of continued learning and mentorship in the birthing industry.Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the challenges of being a doula, including burnout and the need for responsible and experienced professionals.Many doulas are experiencing burnout, with some leaving the profession entirely, while others are struggling to keep up with the demands of their work.Birth professionals describe chaotic and traumatic situations in the wild west of childbirth.Optimism and solutions for improving the state of birth in the US, with a focus on nurses' roles and accountability. 21.49Ravae Sinclair emphasizes the importance of nurses in the birth process and calls for accountability.Sinclair and others aim to develop into educators and leaders in the field, offering advanced courses and solutions.Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss the state of birth work, innovation, and optimism post-pandemic.They reflect on their experiences during the pandemic, including working in hazmat suits and neglecting personal well-being.Pivoting and innovation in doula work, with a focus on childbirth education and virtual training. 26:45Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss innovative doula training programs, including NICU doula training and medical terminology for birth workers.Doulas can help families navigate traumatic gaps during childbirth and postpartum, including those in NICUs, with specific skills and support.Ravae Sinclair is focusing on supporting birth businesses and parents with convenient, accessible education.She is developing self-paced childbirth education modules and innovating her contracts for doulas and agencies.Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss their return to sharing tips and ideas after taking a break.

    33 min
  7. 08/26/2024

    B-ROLL: We're Baaaacckk!!!!

    Denise Bolds and Ravae Sinclair share their experiences and insights on personal growth, wellness, and inclusivity in the birth work community. They emphasize the importance of self-love, setting boundaries, and prioritizing self-care for effective leadership and service. They also discuss the challenges of navigating identity and leadership as black women in the field, and the need for inclusivity and transparency in serving diverse communities. OutlinePersonal transformation, stress, and self-care for birth workers.Denise and Ravae discuss their struggles with weight loss and fitness, sharing their experiences and tips.Ravae Sinclair reflects on her weight gain and stress during her time as intercultural director at Dona.Denise Bolds shares her own experience with weight gain and stress, and how it relates to her current project.Ravae Sinclair shares her personal journey as an intercultural director and board member, highlighting the challenges and toll of pushing for inclusivity and change within institutions.Sinclair reflects on the weight gain and stress she experienced during her time as a volunteer board member, and how she had to find ways to prioritize her own well-being after leaving the board. Self-care and parenting an adult child.Denise Bolds shares her wellness journey and how it supports her birth work, despite external obligations.Ravae Sinclair encourages Denise to embrace her identity and inclusivity in her dissertation, leading to project success.Denise Bolds and Ravae Sinclair discuss parenting an adult child, with Denise adjusting her approach to let go and prioritize self-care.They agree that it's important to let adult children make their own mistakes and learn from them, while still providing support and guidance. Prioritizing self-care for marginalized communities in the post-pandemic era.Denise Bolds and Ravae Sinclair discuss burnout and recovery as birth workers, with Ravae sharing her struggles with leading inclusive work while prioritizing self-care.Ravae and Denise explore the changing needs of birth workers during the pandemic, with a focus on balancing work and self-care in this new phase.Ravae Sinclair reflects on her identity as a seasoned birth worker and black woman, prioritizing her own needs and authenticity in her work.Sinclair shares examples of other birth workers who have found success by staying true to themselves and their communities, inspiring her to do the same. Personal growth and transformation in one's 40s and 50s.Denise Bolds and Ravae Sinclair discuss their personal growth and transformation in their 60s, with a focus on serving others.They share their experiences of unloading baggage, breaking bad habits, and being transparent with themselves for personal growth.Ravae Sinclair shares her experience of transforming in her 40s, including gaining weight and setting boundaries.Denise Bolds discusses how turning 50 brings new challenges, such as figuring out how to use the fire of life. Self-care and self-love for black women during menopause.Denise Bolds and Ravae Sinclair discuss self-care and its impact on their doula practices, with Denise sharing her experience of letting go of clients who are not a good fit.They emphasize the importance of accountability in growing a business, with Denise mentioning the need to evolve and adapt to changes.Denise Bolds shares her journey of transforming her health through diet and exercise, with the help of her doctor and online resources.Ravae Sinclair supports Denise's efforts and encourages others to make similar changes, emphasizing the importance of partnering with caring professionals. Wellness, self-love, and life balance.Ravae Sinclair and Denise Bolds discuss wellness and self-love, with Ravae sharing her struggles with body image and self-care.Ravae and Denise reflect on the importance of prioritizing wellness and self-love, despite societal pressures and toxic environments.Ravae Sinclair shares her weight loss journey and how she's embraced her body, despite societal pressure to conform to beauty standards.Denise Bolds joins the conversation and shares her own weight loss journey, discussing the importance of work-life balance and self-care.

    31 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

We are experienced birth workers with diverse careers, bringing decades of expertise to the world of birth, babies, and families. Join us on this journey as we delve deep into the realms of birth, postpartum care, and the business aspects of this incredible field. Our aim is to shed light on the unfiltered realities of birth work and guide you through building a successful birthing career.

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