Cali Claptrap: Integral Conversations Matt Hudkins

Natalie Sudman is the author of: Application of Impossible Things; My Near Death Experience in Iraq. Dr. Eben Alexander, author of Proof of Heaven: a Neurosurgeon Journey into the Afterlife, calls Application of Impossible Things ”one of the most astounding and significant NDE (near death experience) ever recorded.” I have been interested in NDE literature since my early twenties because I could not find the insights I needed through church or other spiritual outlets. While I had faith, I craved proof. The ultimate proof for all of us will happen one day but I needed a narrative that made my life more coherent. Paul Simon wrote “faith is an island in the setting sun, but proof is the bottom line for everyone”. My questioning of my own faith has allowed me to keep my mind open to people’s reports of God or Heaven. It is best to approach the subject from one “pure of heart”. It would only make sense that the Spirit that crafted the Bible would still be present in our own lives. In fact, a good integral theorist must keep a beginner’s mind when it comes to the metaphysical. (To the empiricist: Until one has a NDE or OBE (Out of body experience) I’m not sure I am interested in their questions of validity.) NDE literature has deepened my faith. It has updated it, like Faith 2.0. 

 In Jeffrey Kripal’s book Esalen he describes the literature of Michael Murphy as “mystical realism”. I love the term because it is the polar opposite of science fiction. In the future, if we can have flying cars than can we also have mystical awareness?  I hope everyone who listens to our conversation can experience the transformational value of Natalie’s story.

Natalie Sudman was born in Montana, and raised in Minnesota. She worked for sixteen years worked as an archaeologist in the western U.S. In 2006 she went to Iraq, administering construction contracts for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers.

While working in Iraq, the vehicle she was riding in was hit with a roadside bomb. Her book Application of Impossible Things details her experience within that incident.

Facebook author page: https://m.facebook.com/pages/category/Author/Natalie-Sudman-319158271437378/

Web page: www.nsudman.com

Blog: www.traceofelements.com

Information about readings: https://traceofelements.com/intuitive-readings-info/

A X-men comic book might start out something like this:

Script: Our world is fragmented and on the brink of one crisis after another.

We believe we are alone but there are more of us than we know.

“Heed this warning: the gods only ask one thing- that we don’t forget them.”

Frame: The hero/ine (unbeknownst to the soul) waits to be transformed…through mutation.

(The hero/ine enters the comic shop)

Jeff Kripal is a professor of religion at Rice University and the associate director of the Center for Theory and Research at Esalen. He is the author of such books as Esalen: America and the Religion of No Religion, Mutants and Mystics and the Flip. Celebrator of the humanities and chronicler of the human potential movement, Jeff’s work champions some of my favorite subjects: the metanormal and explorations of consciousness.

In my dreams, comic book shops always symbolize something like Tatooine’s Cantina scene: launching points for magical adventures. For me, the comic shop is a symbol that releases the psychic energy of magic, as Kripal might say. I wanted to be a comic book artist/writer when I was a tween. I set out to write my own comics but I became conscious of the fact I had no stories to tell at that age. Maybe, this is when I set out to live my own adventures. Jeff tells us that there is no place for the modern ordinary mystic in our culture with our present worldview. Luckily, comics can still act as a place of refuge for the extraordinary.

Take the X-Men, for example. The X-men are mutants: humans with superhuman abilities. Like the X-men’s School for Gifted Youngsters, Esalen has served as a home for some of the greatest psychonauts of the last 60 years. Esalen Jeff’s book on Esalen chronicles the lineage of the human potential movement. For fans like myself, many of these folks are superheroes (my superhero mutants): Maslow, Campbell, Tarnas, Leonard, Murphy, etc. Uncanny indeed! Kripal follows in their ginormous footsteps.

How many of us are conscious that we are conscious at this very moment? And if you are with me this far: how many of us are there out there? Authorization is a metatheme Kripal writes about in Mutants and Mystics. It is when we realize we are co-authors of this super-story and “involves the act of writing the paranormal writing us”. The human race is in trouble. Let’s hope there are Mutants out there to help us.

It was an honor and joy to discuss this subject matter with one of the leading scholars in the field. Please enjoy my conversation with Jeff Kripal.

Today's guest is Brent Cooper. Brent is a Canadian metamodern writer and a political thinker. Brent has been a guest on shows such as the Stoa, John Vervaeke, Jim Rhutt, amongst others. I can’t think of a better description of Brent than the one he wrote about himself on his Medium page: "Political sociologist by training, mystic by nature, rebel by choice." While Brent has a reputation of a clasher, I don’t think his fights come from a Trickster spirit. What I appreciate about Brent is his willingness to fight for the cause. It’s a cause that also I identify with so let me point out my bias. Say what you want about the personality of Brent, the work he has produced is very good. He is an excellent writer. He has done the research. He is more informative of what is going on culturally more than any television personality I can think of on any of the major news networks. It’s probably the same reason those networks don’t discuss metamodern or integral because it challenges the foundation of consent.

Have you ever heard you shouldn’t discuss religion or politics at parties? It’s because everyone has a very invested opinion on these two major players in their lives and it triggers fights. It just so happens that these are the two most important issues to discuss. Just look at the current political division happening all over the world. People are losing their minds over politics. Spiritually we lack a common humanity and language that we all can use. There is a sensemaking phenomena going on where many camps are maneuvering to explain and solve the crises in politics and spirituality. I would argue that metamodern and integral have made the most sense of this metacrisis. Metamodern theory is to politics what integral is to spirituality/religion: first-class answers to our predicament.

We need to transcend the sensemaking gold rush and construct a new alliance based on the call to co-create/participate in this metamodern/Integral cosmos/Kosmos. Can we just call it the metamoderntegral (how’s that for a mouthful?) age already? How do we do that? Please tune in to find out how Brent views this turning and what you should be doing about it.

Today’s guest is Dr Rica Viljoen: "Rica worked closely with Dr Don Beck to translate spiral dynamic theory in a pragmatic way. She co-authored the book Spiral Dynamics in Action. She is the founder of the Centre of Human Emergence: Africa and actively involved in the integral space. Rica is an international organisational development and change specialist that focuses on multiculturalism and inclusivity. Her key interest resides in supporting organisations to create sustainable organisational cultures that result in business results through the optimisation of individual leadership behaviour, functional group dynamics and organisational sustainability. These key strategic factors are considered in the context of the industry and the country of operations."

The main focus of this episode is to explore Spiral Dynamics (SD) in more depth. Rica was instrumental with training a global mining company in SD whose headquarters are in South Africa. We used the mining company as a practical example to explore the nuances of SD. In addition, we discuss the research of Clare Graves and the history of Ken Wilber’s involvement with SD.

Today’s episode also features a guest host for the first time, Ryan Nakade. Ryan was a guest in season 1 and also serves as a co-host on the Growing Down podcast.

Alyssa Tolva is the branch manager for the Cupcake Girls for Oregon and SW Washington. The Cupcake Girls was founded by Joy Hoover in Las Vegas in 2010 and now has offices in Las Vegas and Portland. The name was given to the organization because cupcakes, along with other self-care activities like hair and nails, were brought to the sex workers to open dialogue. Who can resist the power of a cupcake? Soon, they became known as the Cupcake Girls.

The mission of the Cupcake Girls is to provide “confidential support to those involved in the sex industry, as well as trauma-informed outreach, advocacy, holistic resources, and referral services to provide prevention, and aftercare to those affected by sex trafficking.”

On my other podcast, Growing Down, I was drawn to learning about different types or categories of politics. Politics of pleasure, or pleasure activism, is one such sub-category that addresses items such as the decriminalization of sex work. New Zealand’s model appears to be the gold standard resulting in a decrease in violence, sexually transmitted infections and human trafficking. Currently, there are efforts being made in Oregon to adopt this model.

Alyssa shares what led her to join this organization and why we should all support its mission.

You can learn more about the Cupcake Girls, how to volunteer and their fundraisers here: https://thecupcakegirls.org

Persistence pays off! After 15 months of correspondence I was able to catch the big fish: Jorge Ferrer. Jorge is the author of Revisioning Transpersonal Theory and Participation and the Mystery. Participation and the Mystery might be the best integral book I have read since Sex, Ecology and Spirituality because of its overview of both the theory and the application of integral. One of my main drives of this podcast is to help understand integral better. Prior to immersing myself in the integral community, I was largely unaware of many of the pivotal books and thinkers that shaped that which is defined as integral. My introduction was through Ken Wilber’s writings but transpersonal theory includes and goes beyond his work. Aware of an apparent chasm between Ferrer’s and Wilber’s integral worldview, who better to ask than Jorge himself? Can these different perspectives co-exist?

His newest book, Love and Freedom: Transcending Monogamy and Polyamory, continues his reputation as a trailblazer.  Love and Freedom offers a radical shift to our understanding of relationships: relational freedom.  He argues for “…the value of holding a pluralist stance when contrasting monogamy and polyamory -one that underscores the benefits of having a greater diversity of relational choices (thus supporting relational freedom) while maintaining the grounds for critical discernment within and among the relational styles.” Love and Freedom offers a transcending alternative to the mono-poly war: novogamy. Novogamy provides the relationship spectrum that is needed in the 21st century. It allows individuals the “freedom to love whom you want, how you want, and as many as you want, so long as personal integrity, respect, honesty and consent are at the core of any and all relationships”, as Wendy O-Matik beautifully summarizes. Love and Freedom is the quintessential integral (postsecular) relationship book because it gives a fully blossomed vision of what love may be for present and future integralists:  “A freer essence of romantic love waits beyond the promises, expectations and delusions of the Romantic Love myth from a bygone era. Once the deceptive spell of monocentric romance is dissolved, a different and more creative love can emerge—perhaps even a finer love that is meaningful, vibrant, and real beyond what one imagined to be possible.” 

There are so many transformative ways that a shift in our thinking could affect things like spirituality and relationships. The first thing that comes to mind is the Catholic church.  50% of 2.6 billion Christians are Catholic linked to a mythic worldview where women cannot be priests and practitioners are not raised with a healthy relationship to their bodies or sexuality. Jorge explains his perspective on priests and pedophilia and what changes he would make to the church. 

A big thanks to Jorge for not only being a guest but for being instrumental in connecting me to guests like Michael Lerner, David Loy and David Nichol for the Growing Down podcast. I have found through our correspondence that he was the embodiment of the ideas he praised in his book, which is the hallmark of integral for me. It was an honor and a blessing to have him as a guest. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as I did! As Jorge is fond of saying: Onward!

You can find out more about Jorge Ferrer here: https://www.jorgenferrer.com