For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast For the Love Podcast

In this emotionally charged last episode in our For the Love of the Matriarchy series, Jen shares an intimate and profound conversation with Christine Blasey Ford, who came into the public eye when she testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee on September 27th, 2018, while it was considering the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court; describing an alleged sexual assault by the Supreme Court nominee that took place at a high school party in the 80s. Christine, with brave vulnerability, opens up about her harrowing experience in the aftermath of her testimony and the tsunami of public scrutiny she faced. Through her story, we're reminded of the incredible power of women when we come together, support one another, and find our collective voice against injustices. This episode is not just a dialogue; it's a clarion call to all women to connect, share, and empower each other in a world that often seeks to silence us.
Christine shares with Jen:

the moment she heard that Brett Kavanaugh was on a short list of Supreme Court justice nominees and the immediate reaction that she needed those in power to know the truth

the emotional toll the aftermath of the experience took on Christine and her family, and the safety measures they had to employ because of constant death threats

why she decided to write a book, One Way Back, to tell the story now, citing what she learned through the experience and what she knows now about the many other women in history who have also spoken their truth about sexual harassment and assault

the incredible amount of support she received from women and sexual assault survivors in the form of letters, which carried her through some of the most difficult moments


Jen and Christine's conversation underscores a crucial message: when women connect, we're not just powerful together; we're unstoppable.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“It took many years to feel that I was ready to say something and to break the silence. I had been silent for so long. I was feeling a little bit guilty even, for having so much focus and learning about the contributions of so many other women in so many different venues who have spoken up against sexual harassment and sexual assault. And I just thought, 'Wow, I need to share all the things that I didn't know beforehand. Maybe I could share them and maybe it will help someone.'" - Christine Blasey Ford
“The system can often work in ways that make [women] feel divided and makes us feel negatively towards each other. But when we actually connect, we're really powerful together.” - Christine Blasey Ford
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Christine’s Senate Judiciary Committee Testimony - https://bit.ly/3UzlYeof 
One Way Back: A Memoir by Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4dHlk7C
Washington Post Article featuring Christine Blasey Ford - https://bit.ly/4bjFNh3
Guest’s Links:
Christine’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/christine_talkinout/
Christine’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/fordchristine66
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today we’re diving into the profound biological, psychological and social shifts experienced when becoming a mother - a process known as "matrescence.” Jen sits down with science journalist, Lucy Jones, who experienced a seismic identity shift that arose after the birth of her first child.  
Lucy and Jen unpack groundbreaking neuroscience research and they expose the deep-rooted myths and unrealistic expectations surrounding modern motherhood. From the minimizing of postpartum struggles to the pressure of "natural birthing" ideals, Lucy reveals how these systemic fictions can breed shame, isolation and maternal mental health crises.

Jen and Lucy discuss:

The concept of "matrescence" - the biological, psychological and social transition to becoming a mother that renders profound identity changes

How modern cultural myths and idealized notions of motherhood as blissful and "natural" can be deeply alienating and contribute to maternal mental health issues

The systemic lack of scientific research and societal rituals to prepare and support women through the seismic transformation of matrescence

The need to construct new narratives, share vulnerable experiences, and build community care around the modern realities of the matrescence

* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“[Matrescence] is a very simple concept that means the process of becoming a mother. The word is a little bit like 'adolescence'. It was coined by the late American anthropologist Dana Rafael in the 70's. She also coined the word 'doula'. She first wrote about it in an essay collection published in 1974 where she talks about how, in most societies and cultures across the world, people have always had a sense that a mother is born when a baby is born. But she also describes your identity, your social relationships, your roles, your everyday life, your mind, your psychology, and your emotions." - Lucy Jones
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Matrescence by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4dDYI83
Foxes Unearthed by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/44E9Uxp
Losing Eden by Lucy Jones - https://bit.ly/4byVO2k
Dana Rafael (an American Anthropologist) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_Raphael 
“The Birth of a Mother” (A New York Times Article by Alexandra Sacks) - https://bit.ly/4bow0WK
2017 NIH Article on Pregnancy Leading to Changes in the Brain - https://bit.ly/3UAGiMK
Of Woman Born by Adrienne Rich - https://wwnorton.com/books/Of-Woman-Born/
Andrea O’Reilly - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_O'Reilly
Guest’s Links:
Lucy’s Website: https://lucyfjones.com/
Lucy’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/lucyjones
Lucy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lucyfjones/
Lucy’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lucyjonesbooks/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this episode of the Matriarchy series, we explore how deeply ingrained patriarchal narratives can create a policing effect on the behavior of women. 
Author, Elise Loehnen, discusses her book "On Our Best Behavior" which examines how concepts like the seven deadly sins have historically been used to restrict women's behavior and police their adherence to an idealized form of "goodness." Loehnen unpacks the insidious ways women are culturally conditioned from a young age to suppress normal human drives like anger, ambition, and sexuality. And how disrupting rigid gender stereotypes is important when raising the next generation in order to build a more compassionate world. 
Jen and Elise discuss:

How women are culturally conditioned and expected to embody "goodness" while men are oriented toward power 

How concepts like the "seven deadly sins" have historically been used as a patriarchal "punch card" to police women's behavior

Why raising boys to have an emotional inner life nurtures positive identity development

The current era of politics that calls for women to challenge the patriarchal system while also having compassionate dialogue to build a new, care-centered world where everyone can flourish

* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Women are trained for goodness and men are trained for power.” - Elise Loehnen
“The worst thing for a woman is reputational harm--just the assigning of her badness. Bad mother. Toxic coworker. Toxic boss. Unkind. She says the wrong thing. And it's sort of impossible to defend yourself against that. We have zero tolerance, and it's very scary.” - Elise Loehnen
"We need a culture where the men are like, 'I would like to be more like women. I need to be caring. I want to be nurturing and creative. And yes, I can be strong and I can be masculine, but I also need this underdeveloped muscle.'" - Elise Loehnen
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
On Our Best Behavior by Elise Loehnen - https://bit.ly/44tz41D
Goop - https://goop.com
For the Love of Being Seen and Heard ft. Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/4b8YT9C
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone by Lori Gottlieb - https://bit.ly/3JO7FOn
Evagrius Ponticus (Fourth Century Christian Monk) - https://bit.ly/4b7zEV5
Pope Gregory on the 7 Deadly Sins - https://bit.ly/3y1J1XK
Harvey Weinstein Abuse Cases - https://bit.ly/4b5ktM5
Carol Gilligan - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Gilligan
In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3JQ9IBh  
Human Voice by Carol Gilligan - https://bit.ly/3UQ1Rcn
Andrew Tate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Tate
Order, Disorder, Reorder (An idea Developed by Richard Rohr) - https://bit.ly/44xzHqK
For the Love of The Enneagram ft. Richard Rohr - https://bit.ly/3QzzZaW
Loretta Ross - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Ross
Guest’s Links:
Elise’s Website - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/
Elise’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/eliseloehnen/
Elise’s Twitter - https://www.twitter.com/eloehnen
Elise’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/EliseLoehnen/
Elise’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/elise-loehnen-b867523/
Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Stubstack Blog) - https://eliseloehnen.substack.com/
Pulling the Thread (Elise’s Podcast) - https://www.eliseloehnen.com/episodes
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1
The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen and Isabel Allende discuss her novel, Violeta, and why Allende makes her bold choices in characters, events, and settings. Allende shares her fascinating personal background - born in Peru, living as a refugee, and eventually immigrating to the U.S. where she began her writing career.

Allende explains how Violeta's story was inspired by her own mother's life and letters, which Allende has meticulously preserved over decades. The author discusses how Violeta's complicated romantic relationships and experiences of political upheaval mirror Allende's own life.

Particularly compelling moments include:


Allende's description and showing of the extensive archive of her mother's letters

The author's insights on the challenges women writers face, having to work harder than men to achieve respect

Allende's personal experiences with family tragedy that informed the novel

The author's delight in crafting the "villain" character of Julián, as well as the beloved nanny character based on Allende's own housekeeper


Overall, you’ll hear a dynamic conversation between Jen and Isabel on life, love, and loss. 

Novel Summary:
The novel follows the life of Violeta, who is born in 1920 in the aftermath of World War I and the onset of Spanish flu pandemic. The story traces Violeta's tumultuous life as she navigates historic events, including the Great Depression forcing her family into poverty and a relocation to a remote part of their South American homeland.

Structured through a series of letters Violeta writes to her grandson, the narrative portrays her resilience, passion, and humor against the backdrop of major 20th century historical events and upheavals, including women's rights struggles. The story arcs through Violeta's experiences of love, heartbreak, and the ebb and flow of wealth, set against the sweeping historical context of an unnamed South American country.
* * *
Guest’s Links:
Isabel’s Website - https://www.isabelallende.com/en 
Isabel’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/allendeisabel/ 
Isabel’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/isabellallende
Isabel’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/isabelallende/ 

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
List of Isabel’s Books - https://www.isabelallende.com/en/books 
Violeta by Isabel Allende - ​​https://www.isabelallende.com/en/book/violeta 
James by Percival Everett - https://www.amazon.com/James-Novel-Percival-Everett/dp/0385550367 

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/ 
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ 
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For this special bonus episode, Jen talks with WNBA star, Brittney Griner, who shares her powerful story of resilience after she was wrongfully detained in Russian prisons for nearly a year. Brittney provides a heartbreaking firsthand account of the inhumane conditions she endured, from the lack of legal rights and translators to cruel psychological tactics by guards. She opens up about the pivotal role her faith played in giving her mental strength to survive.
Brittney also discusses the ongoing trauma she has faced since returning home, and the renewed sense of motivation to use her voice and platform to advocate for other detainees abroad still seeking freedom. 
Jen and Brittney discuss:

Griner's harrowing account of being imprisoned in Russia and how she’s fighting to get more US prisoners home

The pivotal role her faith and reading the Bible played in giving her strength to survive mentally and emotionally.

Her candid discussion of the ongoing trauma she's working through since returning to the U.S.

Her optimism about the WNBA's rising popularity to force meaningful change in addressing the glaring pay gap with men's basketball.


Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"My biggest fear was the fear of being forgotten." - Brittney Griner
"We feel like we're in control a lot in our everyday lives. But being over there, I was in a place where I needed help. I couldn't control anything. It was out of my hands. I had to rely on something, or I would have gone crazy...I would have Bible study on Sundays and I think that's what got me through, honestly." - Brittney Griner
"We need everybody to buy into [the WNBA]. We need to challenge companies to stop just checking a box and saying, 'Oh, we fight for equality. We had a month. We had some shirts.' That's a step. But we need you to put dollars down to make a difference." - Brittney Griner
Resources Mentioned in this Bonus Episode: 
Caitlin Clark - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caitlin_Clark
“It Gets Better Project” - https://bit.ly/4al2EaZ
Coming Home by Brittney Griner - https://www.amazon.com/Coming-Home-Brittney-Griner/dp/0593801342
Guest Link:
Website - https://wearebg.org/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/brittneyyevettegriner
Twitter - https://twitter.com/brittneygriner
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/BrittneyGriner
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Continuing In our For the Love of The Matriarchy series, Jen talks with powerful women who are taking innovative approaches to their work, their relationships, and their joy. Bozoma Saint John is a trailblazing marketing executive whose career has taken her to the heights of companies like Pepsi, Apple, Uber and Netflix. But her path to becoming a "badass" has been one marked by profound loss and upheaval. 
From the loss of her first child and her husband's battle with cancer, to being told she's "too much" by those closest to her, Bozoma opens up about summoning resilience from life's lowest lows. She discusses redefining what true strength looks like, embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo, and pioneering a collaborative model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice.

Jen and Bozoma discuss:

Embracing authenticity even when it ruffles the status quo and offends those in power

Redefining strength not as impenetrable toughness, but as the pliability in experiencing brokenness yet still rising again

The complexities of reconciling life's tragedies with its gifts and holding space for gratitude amid loss

Pioneering a collaborative, trust-based model of single parenthood that makes space for her daughter's voice and needs


For anyone craving inspiration to honor their scars while uncompromisingly claiming their power, this is a master class.
* * *
Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“Privilege is a reliable enemy of equality. And it is sometimes insidious the lengths we’ll go to protect it because we're still benefiting [from it].” - Bozoma Saint John
"You don't have to have had the same losses I've had or suffered the same way I suffered to prove that you are worthy of the scars that you bear. You have them and it's okay." - Bozoma Saint John
“My parenting has changed because I need to make space for [my daughter] to be honest with me about what she needs so that I can be the mother that she needs; not necessarily the mother that I think is needed.” - Bozoma Saint John
"The most amazing thing about being human is how incredibly tied we are to each other. And it is a beautiful thing that even through our pain, we are still tied together as human beings." - Bozoma Saint John
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Bozoma’s Marketing Hall of Fame Induction: https://marketinghalloffame.org/inductees-leading-marketers/bozoma-saint-john-2022-marketing-inductee/
2021 Most Influential CMO: https://www.forbes.com/connect/event/2021-wmi-cmos/
Ambassador to the African Diaspora and Special Envoy to the President of Ghana: https://bit.ly/4bhmVig.
Guest’s Links:
Bozoma’s Website: https://www.bozomasaintjohn.com/
Bozoma’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SaintBoz
Bozoma’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Instagram: http://instagram.com/badassboz
Bozoma’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bozoma-saint-john-0305441/
Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy. 
Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices