Having Difficult Conversations tiny changes-Big Shift podcast

Summary: Toi B James and I explore her book “Talk About It.” Toi gives a 12-step process to help move the most difficult conversation forward. She gives us insight into a process that works. I appreciated the book and the dignity that it can give you in approaching these situations that can challenge the best of us. We all have them, after all.
Vickidawn: Our episode today is Number 30, Having Difficult Conversations. My guest is Toi B James author of Talk About It - 12 Steps to Transformational Conversations, Even When you Disagree. Can you tell us a little bit more about your book, a little bit about you, what you do?
Toi: Sure. The book talks about - it really is a practical guide that people can use to have difficult conversations. When we say courageous conversations, this book really gives you 12 steps based on coaching techniques. As a certified coach, we are trained to actively listen, hold space for people in a real way, navigate difficult conversations. The book really gives readers practical tools. As far as my background, I am the founder and Chief Impact Officer of RedInk Enterprises, which is a boutique DEI&B, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging Firm that specializes in inclusive communications and engagements.
Vickidawn: Thank you. Well, thank you for being here and I'm excited for our show topic today. We all have those conversations that are difficult. We get stuck repeating the same conversation. I know my husband and I spent some years doing that, revisiting them and we could almost write the script. And some topics also are so uncomfortable, we just don't know how to move them forward. Maybe a work relationship or a family situation. Your book, I found really valuable in that way because it does give you such a nice framework to go deeper. I appreciate it so much.
Toi: Thank you so much.
Vickidawn: You share in your book that you've had uncomfortable moments when others were insensitive in their comments around race. Some people would just wait for others to just get it, but this book is very proactive and empowering. What allowed you to develop the 12 steps to transformative conversations?
Toi: Yes. In the intro of the book is a story about a friend of mine, Masud Olufani, who's an artist who was talking to a gentleman after a performance that depicts the selling of enslaved people here in Atlanta. After the presentation or after the performance, which was amazing, an older white gentleman walked up to him and said, "Why are we still talking about this?" Although I couldn't really hear everything - I wanted to - I was trying - I monitored the body language and the patience in the active listening and how he kept the door open for understanding for the both of them. After the conversation, I fast forward a couple of weeks I met with him. I was like, how did that go? How did you do that?
That would've paralyzed me because at the time, so much was happening in the country that was harmful and painful as a black woman to navigate in the world. Talking about race became very difficult because of course I've grown up seeing people harmed because of something they can't change. It's just unreasonable, quite frankly, racism is. When I met with my student, I was like, so what happened? He was like, "I gave him my number." I gave him a call to see if he wanted to continue the conversation. We did after some hesitation talk a little bit, I asked him if he would like to continue, can always call me and we can continue talking about what happens within the African American community, our history, why it's important to continue the conversation about our history.
He just kind of became my hero in that space. Fast forward, I received an email from a friend of mine who was like, "This would be good for you." It was information about Post Diversity Institute, which is where I was trained as a certified coach. I would have to say after that, I actually got my voice back because I understood that it's n