Hello Metaverse Annie Zhang

If you’ve been plugging into the world of DAOs lately, you’ve certainly heard of FWB (Friends with Benefits DAO). In many ways, FWB is the cool kid on the block, the connector that taps into all the right scenes. It’s brought creatives, artists, technologists, builders, and anyone who’s in the intersection of culture and web3 together. What differentiates FWB from any other social clubs or scenes, is that like any other DAO, its members have a shared bank account, powered by the blockchain. It makes decisions on how they want to operate, what initiatives they want to pursue, and how they want to spend their money collectively as a community. 
Alex Zhang, who has probably the coolest job title I know, is the Mayor of FWB. With extensive experience as a community builder, particularly for global communities with large budgets and corporate structures, he’s eager to disrupt that existing model and define what a more organic member driven governance structure looks like. He takes inspiration from fields like urban planning, architecture and organizational design to inform what a more robust, organized, and well-run DAO could look like. 
In the episode, we talk about the genesis story of FWB, how it became such a successful social club. We also explore future possibilities for DAOs, including how it can expand more into facilitating irl (in real life) connections, building vertically integrated tools, and growing to become more like cities rather than intimidating Discord channels. 


ABOUT THE GUEST
Alex Zhang is the mayor of FWB DAO, a worldwide group of cultural creators, thinkers, and builders who convene digitally and IRL to collaboratively shape Web3’s future. Previously, he was the president of Summit, an ecosystem that connects and nourishes global creatives, entrepreneurs, innovators and leaders. He aspires to be the Jane Jacobs of DAOs. 


SHOW NOTES
[2:00] What is FWB and its genesis story?
[8:45] What experiences and skills help shape you for this role?
[16:00] Urban planning principles and how it applies to DAOs
[20:30] If DAOs become governed like cities, where does decentralization come into play?
[25:40] How important is the physical/irl presence of DAOs?
[31:30] What social tools are FWB building? Could they ever replace existing social media platforms?
[35:20] How to attract people to a social club? What does it mean to sit in the intersection of culture x tech x people?
[38:30] Highlights of FWB thus far

The number of successful consumer applications in the web 3 space is still few and far between. Against all odds, Audius, an open source and decentralized music discovery and community platform was somehow able to strike a chord and gain mainstream adoption. 
They have racked up 7M monthly listeners and 50,000 artists, including heavy hitters like deadmau5, Nas, Chainsmokers, Steve Aoki and many more. So what exactly is Audius and how were they able to gain so much traction? 
Initially, it looks just like any other web 2 music discovery and streaming product, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. All data on Audius is open source, which means as a developer you can take the music library and build your own unique music application.
Beyond that, listener data is open as well, which means that artists can have unfettered access to their fan base and use it like a CRM. They can create fan clubs, share exclusive streams, but more critically, if a platform like Spotify or Soundcloud goes down or changes their algorithms, artists will still be able to have a direct channel to their listeners. 
Finally, the governance structure of the Audius community is unique and Robust. Audius the startup is just one small piece of the entire ecosystem. There is also an Audius token, which is managed by the Audius Foundation, and stimulates the economic activities and incentives of the ecosystem. Finally, contribution and decision making is all done by the community in a decentralized manner.

ABOUT THE GUEST
Roneil Rumburg is co-founder and CEO of Audius, a digital streaming service that connects fans directly with artists and exclusive new music. Audius is fully decentralized, owned and run by a vibrant, open-source community of artists, fans, and developers all around the world. Founded in early 2018, Audius serves millions of users every month, making it one of the largest crypto applications ever built.
Prior to Audius, Roneil most recently co-founded Kleiner Perkins' early-stage seed fund, KPCB Edge. At KP, he was responsible for seed investments into Blockchain and AI companies, including Lightning Labs. Roneil attended Stanford University and previously co-founded a Bitcoin peer to peer payment company called Backslash.

SHOW NOTES
[2:45] Audius’ role in disrupting the music industry
[6:45] Components of Audius platform (listeners, artists, network contributor)
[10:35] What does it mean to be the CRM for artists’ fanbase
[15:00] How artists use Audius vs. other platforms
[19:55] Enabling 3P developers to build new listening clients
[23:05] Key drivers of growth
[26:15] Distributed vs. centralized listening experience
[30:25] Governance structure of Audius network
[33:45] Role of CEO for a decentralized network
[37:45] What it means run a ‘startup’ that has no concept of existing or having an IPO

In the last year, play-to-earn (P2E) games have become a promising new frontier for both blockchain enthusiasts who are seeking a deeper purpose in what NFTs and digital ownership can enable, and game developers who are intrigued by this new model of publishing games where it can bypass the walled gardens of the mobile app stores. 
However, given the nascency of this industry, there’s still a ton of skepticism. Common criticisms include P2E games being “not fun to play”, not actually helping people earn money, and not necessarily providing additional value to own game NFTs. 
For Yat Siu who was one of the first investors in Axie Infinity, he believes blockchain gaming is just scratching the surface of what opportunities it can unlock. Beyond immediate value, he is able to see the long term benefits through a philosophical lens.


ABOUT THE GUEST

Yat Siu is the co-founder and executive chairman of Animoca Brands, a global leader in blockchain and gaming with the mission to deliver digital property rights to the world’s gamers and internet users, thereby creating a new asset class, play-to-earn economies, and a more equitable digital framework contributing to building the open metaverse. 
He is a veteran technology entrepreneur and investor based in Hong Kong. He was previously the Founder and CEO of Outblaze, and began his career in Atari Germany. He has been an early advocate for the use of blockchain and NFTs in the gaming industry, which will allow gamers to enjoy true ownership of their own game assets, data and consequently, equity.  

SHOW NOTES
[2:20] How Yat became interested in gaming
[8:45] Gaining conviction for blockchain gaming
[13:40] Permissionless nature of the blockchain
[15:10] Extractive nature of mobile gaming
[19:40] Principles of Play-and-Earn (GameFi)
[25:20] Property rights in the Metaverse
[34:40] Pervasiveness of monopolies online
[36:40] Decentralized property rights as the foundation for innovation
[44:10] Capitalism and inequality
[50:40] Civility, governance and politics in the Metaverse
[59:00] Education as the best defender of democracy
[1:02:45] Future role of government and policies makers in Web 3
[1:06:20] Web 3 and GameFi investing landscape
[1:16:30] Advice to founder and operators wanting to enter into GameFi

While architects have had so much influence on how our cities, buildings and social spaces are constructed, their influence has not quite reached the virtual world. This is perhaps why we haven’t seen examples in the Metaverse of landmarks, versatile multi purpose spaces, or places that have outlived the specific game, use case or event that it was created for. 
Lara Lesmes and Fredrik Hellberg of Space Popular are pioneers within the architectural field, having developed curiosity for what virtual reality will emerge to become years before anyone was talking about the Metaverse. They integrate their expertise in traditional architecture with speculative and conceptual work to help people imagine where the future may be headed. Their perspective is unique, especially for the world of consumer tech, and helps create a completely new paradigm for thinking. 
In the episode, we cover a breadth of fascinating topics from:
The architectural point of view, and how it transitions from traditional architecture to how it should be thought about in a limitless virtual realmA vision of the future where architecture will happen at the speed of the the spoken wordWhy portals will become the one of the most common design elements moving forward, the same way cars were in the past era

ABOUT THE GUEST
Space Popular is a research driven art, design, and media studio that explores the future of spatial experience through virtual reality, film, exhibitions, speculative writing, as well as buildings and objects. The studio is directed by architects Lara Lesmes and Fredrik Hellberg, both alumni of the Architectural Association in London (2011). The studio has completed buildings, exhibitions, public artworks, furniture collections, and interiors across Asia and Europe, as well as virtual architecture for the immersive internet.
Clients, collaborators, and commissioners include national institutions such as MAXXI - National Museum of 21st Century Art, Rome, Italy; The Swedish Centre for Architecture and Design –ArkDes, Stockholm, Sweden; Royal Institute of British Architects, London, UK; National Museum of Modern and Contemporary Art, Seoul, South Korea; as well as independent galleries such as MAGAZIN, Vienna, Austria; and Sto Werkstatt, London, UK.
Lesmes and Hellberg both have extensive academic experience having taught architectural design studio since 2011, first at INDA, Chulalongkorn University in Bangkok from 2021 to 2016, at the Architectural Association in London from 2016 to 2021, and currently at Daniels, Faculty of Architecture, University of Toronto sinde 2020, and UCLA Architecture and Urban Design since 2022. Their current MArch design and research studios both at Daniels and UCLA investigate visions for civic architecture in the immersive internet. 

SHOW NOTES
[2:40] Architectural school of thought
[9:10] Architecture’s existing role in entertainment, gaming and creating the Metaverse
[15:40] Design principles for creating virtual environments
[21:50] Value assignment
[25:40] Importance of speculative projects
[31:10] Creation at the speed of communication
[37:00] Portals will become the most common design element in the virtual era
[46:10] Enabling human connections as core utility of Metaverse
[51:10] How can more architects play a role in this industry?

The term ‘web 3’ has become more and more solidified in the last couple of months, being broadly an umbrella term for the development of all blockchain based technologies. But how does everyone and their moms actively participate in web 3 is a whole other question, and an important one as web 3 needs to gain mainstream adoption to continue to be relevant. 
Peter Yang is working on tackling this problem through an education DAO called Odyssey. Through his journey of writing web 3 beginner-friendly content and guides, such as Curious Beginner’s Guide to Crypto, or Step to Step Guide to NFTs for Creators, he’s realized just how important it is to ensure that people have a guided path when traversing into web 3. Through Odyssey, he’s hoping to help web 3 products feel more intuitive, showcasing the utility value and pushing people away from speculation, and minimizing bad experiences such as scams. 
Perhaps the more interesting story though is Peter’s experience becoming a web 3 creator and successfully creating a DAO, having won the Product Hunt Golden Kitty Award in the first year! Having had years of experience as a product leader in the Web 2 world, he is really able to compare and contrast the two modes of operating. 

ABOUT THE GUEST
Peter is the founder of Odyssey, an education DAO focused on bringing the next 1 million people to web3. Peter is also a product lead at Reddit and previously worked at Twitch and Meta. You can find his writing at creatoreconomy.so.

SHOW NOTES
[2:15] Reality of being a Web 3 Creator
[3:00] Fluidity of roles in DAOs
[6:15] What does it mean to onboarding people to Web 3
[9:50] NFTs vs. regular (fungible) tokens for Creators
[15:05] Wallets as gateway to Web 3
[20:10] Peter’s experience starting a DAO
[22:15] Fundraising for a DAO
[28:00] Step to Step guide for starting a DAO
[30:35] Are DAOs worth it?
[33:40] L1s and L2s
[36:10] Education in the Metaverse

People often conflate the idea of the Metaverse with VR experiences, and while VR can be one medium in which people experience the Metaverse, it is merely a subset. The work that Phillip Wang and team is doing on their virtual social platform called Gather helps demyth this common misunderstanding. 
For Phillip, the CEO and Co-Founder of Gather, the Metaverse is about creating a strong sense of connection, presence, and place no matter where you are. The vision then, is for the Metaverse is to provide people with easier access to opportunities anywhere, whether it’s the ability to work, learn or socialize. 
To accelerate this vision, Phillip focuses on solving the problem of accessibility and cultural acceptance of the Metaverse. Instead of seeing the barrier to mainstream adoption as a technological problem, he instead sees it as a societal acceptance gap. He cites people’s frequent association to gaming and VR experiences as the Metaverse as a deterrent for them to participate, because they don’t identify or are not familiar with these platforms. 
To overcome this gap, Gather was inspired by the open nature of the internet. They built the platform as a 2D format in the browser, so that anyone who has access to the internet web browser can immediately jump into a virtual experience on Gather. As a result, the platform has seen organic creations of virtual workplaces, academic conferences, brand launch parties, housewarming parties and even weddings take place. They have successfully demythed the assumption that Metaverse experiences have to be immersive and 3D, and really opened new doors for new types of people to participate.

ABOUT THE GUEST
Phillip Wang is the CEO and Co-Founder of Gather. Prior, he spent time building technologies to support more fulfilling relationships across distances at The Siempre Collective, ranging from wearables, audio/video apps, to VR. Before that, he spent time at Facebook, Cruise, Microsoft, and as a researcher in deep learning at CMU. Phillip graduated from Carnegie Mellon with a degree in Computer Science.

SHOW NOTES
[2:45] Gather’s evolution from app, to VR, to web 
[5:15] How people work, learn and play on Gather
[10:15] Importance of Metaverse products being accessible
[11:45] Open source creation tools
[13:35] Open Metaverse philosophy
[22:45] Open marketplaces and trade across platforms
[26:35] The Metaverse is not VR
[28:55] Zoom fatigue and the future of work
[31:55] AI’s role in building the Metaverse
[36:20] Mechanisms and interactions post Skeuomorphisms