31 episodes

Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

It Gets Late Early: Career Tips for Tech Employees in Midlife and Beyond Maureen Wiley Clough

    • Business
    • 4.9 • 68 Ratings

Have you ever looked around at your tech company and realized you’re one of the oldest people in the room…and you may not even be 40 yet? It gets late early is a podcast and community focused on the experience of aging as a tech employee. We’ll uncover the root of Silicon Valley’s obsession with youth, and parse fact from fiction. We’ll explore individual experiences across tech companies of various sizes, learn from experts, and share practical advice on how tech workers can build long and fulfilling careers in tech - for as long as they want - or need - to be employed. Together we’ll discover how we can all bring about a better future - for tech companies and employees alike.

This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

    The Trouble With Capitalism, Ditching Our Hustle Culture Mindset, and Becoming More Human-Centric in the Age of AI With Anti-career Coach Danielle Roberts

    The Trouble With Capitalism, Ditching Our Hustle Culture Mindset, and Becoming More Human-Centric in the Age of AI With Anti-career Coach Danielle Roberts

    In our hustle-obsessed society, the concept of "work-life balance" has become a twisted, unattainable ideal. From the dawn of our careers, we're fed narratives that glorify overachievement and self-sacrifice for the corporate grind.

    But what if we've been sold a lie? What if the real keys to fulfillment lie in dismantling those deeply ingrained notions?

    My guest today is Danielle Roberts, the bold anti-career coach. Danielle was well on her way to "having it all" - the prestigious job, the six-figure salary, the big promotion. But at what cost? She found herself drained, unfulfilled, and questioning the very purpose of her relentless grind. 

    From debunking the "lazy millennial" myths to questioning if a four-day workweek goes far enough, we explore the systemic issues warping our relationship to work. Danielle shares candid insights on why the perpetual grind robs us of joy and how to start uncoupling your identity from your job title.

    Whether you're questioning your own work-life balance, feeling the creep of burnout, or simply craving more purpose beyond the 9-to-5 grind, this conversation is a must-listen. Tune in as we dive into practical strategies for finding joy and fulfillment outside of your career.

    “We talk about work-life balance as if work is something to be balanced against life, but we need it (work) to be coherent with life.” 
    - Danielle Roberts
    In This Episode:
    -Danielle’s journey from corporate to anti-career coaching
    -Why people are disenchanted with corporate employment
    -The tech industry's broken promises, layoffs, and lies
    -Navigating career uncertainty and embracing self-worth
    -Redefining success and getting comfortable with "failure"
    -A holistic approach to career coaching
    -Generational differences in the workplace
    -Quiet quitting, lazy girl jobs, and a four-day workweek
    And much more.
    Resources: 
    -Buy “Already Enough: A Path to Self-Acceptance” by Lisa Olivera: https://amzn.eu/d/bJIt4PG  
    Connect with Danielle Roberts:
    -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/imdanielleroberts/
    -Website: https://danielleroberts.co/
    Connect with Maureen Clough:
    -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
    -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
    -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
    -LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - https://www.linkedin.com/in/maureenwclough/
    -Facebook: a...

    • 50 min
    Male Loneliness and the Struggle to Make and Maintain Friendships as Men Age With ‘Billy No-Mates’ Author, Max Dickins

    Male Loneliness and the Struggle to Make and Maintain Friendships as Men Age With ‘Billy No-Mates’ Author, Max Dickins

    In our fast-paced, career-driven world, it's all too easy for friendships to take a backseat. But for many men, that dwindling social circle isn't just an occasional inconvenience - it's a harsh reality made worse by societal pressures and masculine stereotypes. 
    My guest today is Max Dickins, speaker, comedian, and author of Billy No-Mates: How I Realised Men Have a Friendship Problem.

    What’s his story? As Max was preparing to propose to his girlfriend, he had a startling realization - his circle of close male friends had dwindled to nearly nothing. He had no best man! Basically it was the real life version of the Paul Rudd and Jason Segal movie “I Love You, Man!” This experience sparked an exploration into the challenges men face in maintaining platonic bonds, especially as they get older.

    From the isolating impacts of demanding work lives to the discomfort many men feel around vulnerability and emotional intimacy, we dive deep into the root causes of male loneliness and its impact on men’s health.  

    But it's not all doom and gloom! Max offers practical strategies for breaking the cycle, such as being proactive in your social life, understanding your career's impact on relationships, and the concept of "repotting" friendships to build deeper connections.

    Whether you're a guy struggling to keep your mates close or a partner wondering how to support the male relationships in your life, this episode is a must-listen, so tune in now!

    "If we ran our social life with the same diligence, creativity, and structure that we ran our business life, everyone would have amazing social lives."
    - Max Dickins
    In This Episode:
    -The story behind Max’s book “Billy No-Mates.”
    -Why do men struggle to make and maintain friendships as they age?
    -The impact of work on male friendships
    -Why do men have more female friends than male friends?
    -Tips on how to make new friends easily as a man
    -How to build strong male friendships at work
    -How women can support their partners in building their social circles
    And much more.
    Purchase Max Dickins’ Book:
    -Waterstones: https://www.waterstones.com/book/we-need-to-talk-to-kevin/max-dickins/9781838853518 
    -Amazon: https://a.co/d/01zG7Dr
    Connect with Max Dickins:
    -LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/max-dickins-improv 
    -Website: https://www.maxdickins.com/
    -Instagram: http://instagram.com/maxdickinswrites
    Connect with Maureen Clough:
    -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
    -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    • 52 min
    Working With Jeff Bezos, Navigating Sexism at Amazon, Growing Confidence, and Getting Sober at 43 With Exit Interview’s Kristi Coulter

    Working With Jeff Bezos, Navigating Sexism at Amazon, Growing Confidence, and Getting Sober at 43 With Exit Interview’s Kristi Coulter

    Ever wondered what it's like to work at Amazon? I mean, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, just like New York, right? It feels like after you’ve done time at Amazon, your meal ticket is punched, and you’ll have a cascade of job offers and great opportunities thereafter. But would you give your soul in exchange for a career at Amazon?

    In this episode, I have Kristi Coulter, a brilliant author who wrote the book Exit Interview. She's also a writing professor and an editorial coach, so she helps people get their books into the world.

    Exit Interview is about Kristi's experience of 12 years at Amazon corporate. It is an incisive, hilarious book, and as a woman reading it, I felt it was so needed in the literary world. We needed someone to voice what was happening on the inside in corporate employment. 

    We get into the sexism and double standards she faced, her tumultuous attempts to advance up the Amazon career ladder, her relationship with ambition, her sobriety journey, and how she has both learned - and proven - that it is never too late to change in life. She also recounts how Amazon - and specifically, Jeff Bezos - responded to the famous New York Times expose of Amazon by Jodi Kantor (who also broke the Harvey Weinstein abuse scandal). You definitely don’t want to miss that story.

    And by the way, the brutal culture Kristi experienced at work is not unique to Amazon, but is something people from many in tech can relate to, so I found it cathartic to read.

    So, if you’re wondering, "Oh, Amazon, what's it like there?" join us as we peel back the mystique and aura of Amazon. Don’t worry, we’ll get some solid and entertaining Jeff Bezos anecdotes up in there.

    "I know there's this myth that people who make that kind of money aren't really working. But I could tell you, at Amazon, those people were working insanely hard. Like so hard that I would think, ‘you know, you're worth tens of millions of dollars, why are you answering emails on Sunday night? … Why don't you go on more vacations?’"
    - Kristi Coulter
    In This Episode:
    -Why Kristi wrote her book 
    -Climbing the corporate ladder at Amazon
    -What was it like getting a job at Amazon as a 36-year-old woman?
    -How do you react to a weird situation in the workplace?
    -Living and working in a place where "drinking" is part of the culture
    -Kristi's leadership example at a luxury retreat 
    -One more humorous interlude 
    -The New York Times article and the response from Jeff Bezos
    -Does Jeff Bezos actually care about diversity and equity?
    And much more.
    Resources:
    -Exit Interview: The Life and Death of My Ambitious Career by Kristi Coulter - https://www.amazon.com/Exit-Interview-Death-Ambitious-Career/dp/0374600902
    -Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace - https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/technology/inside-amazon-wrestling-big-ideas-in-a-bruising-workplace.html
    -Jeff Bezos Responds To 'New York Times' Report On Amazon's Workplace - a href="https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/jeff-bezos-responds-to-new-york-times-report-on-amazons-workplace/" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    • 1 hr 23 min
    How to Be a Better Manager With Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties

    How to Be a Better Manager With Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties

    Becoming a manager through a promotion or receiving a job offer is a rewarding accomplishment for an employee. While these opportunities can prove exciting for both first-time and long-time managers, not everyone is innately gifted with the skills it takes to be a good manager. Ask just about anyone, and they’ll tell you about that bad boss (or 7) they’ve had across their corporate careers.

    In today's episode, the relatable and sharp Ashley Herd of Manager Method and HR Besties and I explore what it means to be a manager and how new managers can adapt to their leadership positions. We discuss common workplace challenges managers face and tips on navigating those challenges.  

    We also touch on this interesting concept called ikigai, which is the convergence of four areas of life: what you love, what you're good at, what the world needs, and what you can be paid for.

    Ashley worked as a lawyer in BigLaw (Ogletree Deakins) and leading companies (including McKinsey and Yum! Brands). She also served as General Counsel and Head of HR for the nation’s largest luxury media company (Modern Luxury). 

    Ashley is a LinkedIn Learning instructor on people management and co-hosts the HR Besties podcast (a Top 10 Business Podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify - and one of my personal favorites). She has been featured by CNN, Financial Times, HR Brew, and BuzzFeed. Ashley is an expert in providing a crucial skill set that will benefit your organization and redefine people leadership.

    "I remember my husband's great-aunt, Norma, saying to me, "It's so good to have friendships of different generations." At that time, I didn't appreciate it. I didn't appreciate it until I was older, and I now have those different ones on different sides."
    - Ashley Herd
    In This Episode:
    -Why Ashley created the Manager Method
    -Who is this "Luke" that appears in Ashley's videos?
    -How to communicate layoffs with humanity
    -The legal consequences of passing on layoff decisions to managers
    -Is aiming for promotion the only path to staying employed?
    -How to manage intergenerational workforce politics
    -Encouraging workplace diversity and mentoring across generations
    -How the HR Besties podcast came about
    And much more.
    Resources:
    -Radical Candor by Kim Scott - https://kimmalonescott.com/radical-candor
    Connect with Ashley Herd:
    -Website: https://www.managermethod.com/
    -Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/managermethod/
    -HR Besties Podcast: https://www.hrbesties.com/
    -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyherd/
    Connect with Maureen Clough:
    -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
    -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    • 44 min
    Ageism in Tech is REAL and People Are Reacting: The Story Behind the VIRAL LinkedIn Post ft. Vern Six

    Ageism in Tech is REAL and People Are Reacting: The Story Behind the VIRAL LinkedIn Post ft. Vern Six

    When applying for a job, the hiring process can feel like a waiting game. But what's even worse than waiting for who knows how long or being ghosted altogether is blatantly experiencing age bias while in an interview with a recruitment officer. That's what today’s guest, Vern Six, experienced, which he shared in a LinkedIn post that resonated with many people. In fact, the post went beyond viral, getting millions of views and garnering national media attention.

    What happened? Vern had a recruiter inform him that he's supposedly too old for a software developer role. He couldn’t believe that "a young whippersnapper" in his twenties had the nerve to condense his 37 years of experience into such a dismissive statement. 

    Vern is an experienced Full-Stack Software Engineer and Project Manager with a demonstrated track record of leading technology projects to successful completion in diverse sectors. But he's over 50, and it turns out, that's a big issue for many recruiters.

    Vern is here today to share the story behind his viral post, and the whirlwind that has happened since then. I'm sure many of you can relate to his encounter with a much younger interviewer and how their conversation ended.

    Join us as we discuss the issue of ageism in tech and what we can do to spread awareness about the value that older workers bring to the workplace. 

    "People just think that once you're kind of pigeonholed in a particular stack, that's the way you are, and you're not going to move away from it. It's just not true."
    - Vern Six
    In This Episode:
    -The background behind the viral post and what's happened since then
    -Vern's experience being an "old guy" in tech
    -A deluge of love and hate for Vern's post
    -Why is ageism prevalent in the tech industry?
    -The value of older workers and their vast experience
    -A difference in perception of age bias between technical roles and sales roles
    -Vern shares his career path and current business venture
    -When did Vern start feeling the fear of ageism? 
    -The extent to which Vern discusses ageism beyond his viral post
    And much more.
    Resources:
    -Vern's Viral Post: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7167946832742928385/
    -LinkedIn Group – Inclusive Futures: Combating Ageism & Discrimination https://www.linkedin.com/groups/14418151/
    Connect with Vern Six:
    -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vernsix/
    -Website: https://purposebrewcoffee.com/
    Connect with Maureen Clough:
    -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
    -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1" rel="noopener noreferrer"...

    • 48 min
    Why Companies Need to Pay Attention to Older Consumers With Entrepreneur Brian Clark

    Why Companies Need to Pay Attention to Older Consumers With Entrepreneur Brian Clark

    As more people live longer, consumer brands need to consider the needs of the older population. Companies that neglect senior consumers, especially the Baby Boomers, can end up missing a massive opportunity to attract and retain a growing market and make a ton of money along the way.

    Older generations, those 50 and older, make up 51% of consumer spending. Despite the prevalence of youth in advertisements, older people spend way, way more money than younger generations (because they have more disposable income). Like young people, older folks also want to learn about brands to stay informed on new and significant trends. So, smart brands will soon wake up to the fact it is time to tap into the growing senior market and leverage the power of older consumers. The longevity economy, the largest and fastest-growing market in the world, is an opportunity marketers can't afford to ignore. 

    My guest today is Brian Clark, a digital marketing and tech entrepreneur, proud Gen X’er, and author of Longevity Gains, a Substack newsletter about the longevity economy. Join us as we discuss the massive demographic shift that's about to happen, why people should actually be excited about getting older, and the need for intergenerational harmony. We have a lot of fun along the way, too. 

    "You hit 50, and I'm telling you, I'm living proof you get happier. And the happiest decade of life is your 70s."
    - Brian Clark
    In This Episode:
    -What is the longevity economy?
    -Why are we now becoming more aware of ageism?
    -Are marketers deliberately ignoring older consumers? Why or why not?
    -Which companies are attracting and retaining older consumers?
    -The need for intergenerational harmony
    -Why many people are not excited about growing older
    -Where can companies get insights on marketing to older consumers?
    -Hope for the older generation and those who are getting there
    And much more.
    Resources:
    -Further: Midlife Health, Wealth, and Personal Growth Newsletter: https://further.net/
    -The Longevity Economy by Dr. Joseph Coughlin: https://longevityeconomy.com/
    Connect with Brian Clark:
    -Website: https://www.longevitygains.com/
    -LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thatbrianclark/
    Connect with Maureen Clough:
    -Instagram: @itgetslateearly - https://www.instagram.com/itgetslateearly/
    -YouTube: @itgetslateearly - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGrHwk-y7ERaq7bCSjZYf1A?sub_confirmation=1
    -Website: itgetslateearly.com - https://www.itgetslateearly.com/
    -LinkedIn: @maureenwclough - a...

    • 43 min

Customer Reviews

4.9 out of 5
68 Ratings

68 Ratings

MelBiringer ,

Love the deep dive

I love that Maureen is bringing the age subject into the light and appreciate her deep dive style.

cibaena59 ,

Loving These Podcasts

I am loving it gets late early! This is a subject that hits close to home. As a result, I am extremely grateful that MC has taken the task of bringing attention to the subject of ageism. Before now it was a topic not discussed so I am learning and sharing and so grateful for the valuable information shared.

Suzg77 ,

A refreshing perspective

Maureen discusses the timely subject of aging in the tech industry. Her guests bring interesting and fresh perspectives with an occasional bit of humor. Her show reminds us that when it comes to technology, mature workers have much to offer and should not be dismissed as irrelevant.

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