Practicing Gospel Podcast David Rayburn

This episode is Part 1 of my conversation with Professor Jeffrey Stout about our democracy.



There is a broad conviction that our democracy here in the United States is in crisis. In my mind, Dr. Stout is one of the most important scholars of democracy and also one of the best guides for us learning what we, as citizens, need to understand and do to improve our democracy and maintain its thriving.



Dr. Stout is Professor of Religion, Emeritus at Princeton University. He is a theorist and historian of democratic culture. His work is concerned with ethics, religious thought, political theory, law, and film. The two of his books that I draw upon for these two episodes are Democracy and Tradition, and Blessed Are the Organized: Grassroots Democracy in America. His two lectures which I draw from for these interviews are his 2017 Gifford Lectures titled ‘Religion Unbound: Ideals and Powers from Cicero to King’ and his 2022 Frederic R. and Molly S. Kellogg Biennial Lecture on Jurisprudence titled ‘The Tree of Democratic Liberty.' Both of these lectures can be found on Youtube.



My own commitment to democracy and religious liberty is rooted in my Baptist heritage.

The kind of Baptist community into which I was born and to which I grew up to embrace, articulated its beliefs in a document called The Baptist Faith and Message (TBFaM. The edition I am using is 1971). Principal among those beliefs is ‘soul freedom’ as Baptist historian, Walter Shurden, calls it in his book, The Baptist Identity: Four Fragile Freedoms (TBI), or as Baptist theologian, E. Y. Mullins, calls it in his book, The Axioms of Religion, ‘the competency of the soul in religion (TBFaM p.8).’

For Baptists of my ilk, this soul freedom is rooted in the nature of God and subsequently in the nature of who we are as individuals. God is free and in creating us as individuals, God created us in God’s image. This image in which each of us is created gives to each of us freedom, equality, dignity, and worth. Freedom of thought and choice are essential for true relationships, fellowship, and communion. These freedoms are the basis by which we are able to love. Thus, soul freedom is what empowers us to be able to respond to God, to enter into true relationship with God and to love God. It is also the means by which we can relate to and love one another.

As free and equal individuals before God, we each are thus free and equal before one another--any and all others—before any and all people and any and all organizations. But having this freedom also includes responsibility and accountability. We become responsible and accountable for our thoughts and choices.

Soul freedom is both exclusive and inclusive (TBFaM p.8). As Shurden defines it, Soul Freedom is the affirmation of the inalienable right and responsibility of every person to deal with God without or to the exclusion of the imposition of creed, the interference of clergy, or the intervention of civil government (TBI p.23). But, as The Baptist Faith and Message says, it includes all elements of true faith (TBFaM p.9).

Thus Mullins lists six axioms:

The theological axiom: The holy and loving God has the right to be sovereign (and is thus free).

The religious axiom: All souls have an equal right to direct access to God.

The ecclesiastical axiom: All believers have a right to equal privileges in the church.

The moral axiom: To be responsible a person must be free.

The religio-civic axiom: A free Church in a free State.

The social axiom: Love your neighbor as yourself.

As The Baptist Faith and Message says, religious liberty does not rest upon a legal document of a political state…A free state does not create religious liberty. It only recognizes and respects it. But religious freedom is essential in the making of a free state (TBFaM pp 141-142).

It continues to assert that in a free state,

This episode is my second interview with John Mabry. In this episode we focus specifically on his music and his newest album, No Stranger. As you will hear in the episode, John has a brain tumor that can be removed, but the result will be that it will make him deaf. So, the airing of this episode of John's music is especially pertinent and poignant. I am deeply honored and blessed that John reached out to me as one of his last interviews before his surgery. This new album is powerful and has much to teach us about God and our faith in Jesus Christ.

The Reverend Dr. John R. Mabry is a United Church of Christ pastor specializing in interim ministry. But he is also an author, songwriter, spiritual director, and seminary professor. He is the author of more than 40 books, writing on spirituality, spiritual direction, and theology, but he also writes science fiction and fantasy. John is a veteran of two progressive rock bands—Mind Future and Metaphor—but in the last few years has released a string of solo albums. His latest is called “No Stranger,” and it is available on BandCamp and all major streaming services. He lives with his wife and three Boxers in the foothills of the Catskill mountains in New York.

You can learn more about John and his recent creative activities from his website, johnrmabry.com

The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called 'Father Let Your Kingdom Come' which is found on The Porter's Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter's Gate Worship Project.

This episode is the first of what I hope will be a series of conversations with pastors about how they are leading, guiding, and navigating their churches through current times.



As the Pew Research Center has documented, Christianity in the United States is in decline. Thousands of churches each year are closing. In churches across the nation across the theological and political spectrum, congregations consist of aging members and declining numbers. Sanctuaries are filled to only one fourth to one third of the seating capacity, and much of the entire building space goes unused. The reasons for this decline are complex and comprised of numerous components. We are still in the midst of gaining some understanding and what understanding we have is evolving. Decline is not the only issues churches are facing and some of the other issues are contributors to the decline.



What this series seeks to explore is how churches are navigating these times by listening to the thoughts of pastors as they describe their situations and contexts and what they and their churches are doing. The pastors I am choosing to interview serve historic mainline congregations that have been a part of their communities for over 100 year and the facilities of which are often listed in the National Register of Historic Places. The pastors also began serving their churches prior to, served in the midst of, and are continuing to serve following the Covid Pandemic.



My first guest in this series in my own pastor, The Reverend Dr. Austin McIver Dennis, who is Senior Pastor of First Baptist Church of Asheville, North Carolina. 'Mack,' as he prefers to be called, is a native of Henderson, North Carolina. He came to First Baptist, Asheville in 2016. Prior to that, for five years he was pastor of First Baptist Church, Mt. Gilead, North Carolina, then received his Th.D. from Duke Divinity School with a focus on homiletics and reconciliation. He is the editor of The Luminous Word: Biblical Sermons and Homiletical Essays, which is an anthology of sermons and essays by Old Testament scholar, Ellen F. Davis.

The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called 'Father Let Your Kingdom Come' which is found on The Porter's Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter's Gate Worship Project.

My guest for this episode is Liz Cooledge Jenkins. In this episode we discuss her book Nice Churchy Patriarchy: Reclaiming Women's Humanity from Evangelicalism.



Liz is a writer, preacher, and former college campus minister who lives in the Seattle area with her husband Ken and their black cat Athena. After spending thirteen years as a young adult in evangelical communities, Liz is passionate about sorting through inadequate and harmful theologies and learning how to build faith communities that are inclusive, just, and life-giving—for women and for all people.



Liz has a BS in Symbolic Systems (Stanford University) and a Master of Divinity degree. Her writing has appeared in Sojourners, The Christian Century, Christians for Social Action, and Red Letter Christians, among other places, and she is a regular contributor at Feminism and Religion. She blogs at lizcooledgejenkins.com, Patheos (Always Re-forming), and Substack (Growing Into Kinship), and can also be found on Instagram @lizcoolj and @postevangelicalprayers. When not writing, Liz enjoys swimming, hiking, attempting to grow vegetables, and drinking a lot of tea.









 

The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called 'Father Let Your Kingdom Come' which is found on The Porter's Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter's Gate Worship Project.

In this episode I welcome back Dr. Jonathan "Jay" Augustine to discuss the sequel to his book Called to Reconciliation: How the Church Can Model Justice, Diversity, and Inclusion. You can listen to my interview with Dr. Augustine on that book in episode 89. The sequel is When Prophets Preach: Leadership and the Politics of the Pulpit.



If Called to Reconciliation is about the Church's responsibility to fulfill its ministry of reconciliation given to it by our God, When Prophets Preach is about the leadership necessary to enable the Church to engage in and seek to achieve its ministry.



Dr. Augustine serves as senior pastor of St. Joseph AME Church in Durham, NC. You can learn more about Dr. Augustine on his website:



https://www.jayaugustine.com/

The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called 'Father Let Your Kingdom Come' which is found on The Porter's Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter's Gate Worship Project.

My guest for this episode is Dr. David Bjorlin. Dr. Bjorlin is a hymn text writer. As an Assistant Professor of Worship at North Park University, David prepares his students for lives of significance and service by guiding and equipping them with practical skills centered around worship. “I believe what and how we worship forms the people we are and the way we interact with the world,” he says. As the assistant chapel coordinator at North Park and the pastor of worship and creative arts at the Resurrection Covenant Church, Bjorlin incorporates his experiences into the classroom by combining theory, practice, and reflection. Framing his classes through a city-centered lens, Bjorlin emphasizes that to understand worship, one must first understand location. He aims to teach students the importance of learning what it means to be a Christian living in a particular city surrounded by different cultures.



David's YouTube channel can be found here:



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUXJEzza9ABOLCPKfdXHl_w

The intro and outro music for this episode is from a clip of a song called 'Father Let Your Kingdom Come' which is found on The Porter's Gate Worship Project Work Songs album and is used by permission by The Porter's Gate Worship Project.