That’s Debatable!

The Free Speech Union
That’s Debatable!

Welcome to ‘That’s Debatable!’, the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan Macvarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week and interview some of the main protagonists in those dramas. Edited by Jason Clift. Please like, subscribe and share. Thank you.

  1. 20H AGO

    Do we need an 'Islamophobia' definition?

    That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Connie Shaw and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. This week Jan and Connie discuss the robust guidance issued by the Office for Students in relation to free speech, and the Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Act 2023 which comes into force on 1 August this year. The Office for Students accepted the FSU's recommendation that all legal speech should be protected at universities and that legal speech should not be regulated at all. It should change the culture at universities, with students told to be ready to be shocked and offended. Also discussed is the new working group set up by the government to establish a non-statutory definition of 'Islamophobia'. A call for evidence was issued on the same day that Baroness Casey’s National Audit on Group-based Child Exploitation was published and Yvette Cooper made a statement on the national inquiry into grooming gangs. The issue has long been suppressed as an allegedly racist or Islamophobic dog whistle, including by a 2018 All-Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) report which established a definition that the Labour Party adopted. The chair of the new working group, Dominic Grieve, wrote the forward and welcomed the findings of the 2018 APPG report. The Free Speech Union has not been asked to give evidence. In similar news, they discuss the amendment tabled by Nick Timothy MP to the Crime and Policing Bill 2024-25 designed to secure the freedom to criticise religion by extending the free speech protections of the Public Order Act 1986. Office for Students guidance https://www.officeforstudents.org.uk/news-blog-and-events/press-and-media/ofs-publishes-free-speech-guidance-as-polling-shows-one-in-five-academics-do-not-feel-free-to-teach-controversial-views/#:~:text='This%20guidance%20emphasises%20that%20freedom,can't%20ban%20ideas.' John Jenkins’ article 'Has the Islamophobia 'Working Group' already made up its mind?’ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/has-the-islamophobia-working-group-of-mps-already-made-up-its-mind/  Politics Home reports on the questions being asked by the Islamphobia working group https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/government-seeks-input-including-racism-islamophobia-definition  Freddie Attenborough article ''Islamophobia' and the grooming gangs scandal' https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/islamophobia-and-the-grooming-gangs-scandal/ Freddie Attenborough article 'The grooming gangs scandal shows the importance of free speech' https://thecritic.co.uk/the-grooming-gangs-scandal-shows-the-importance-of-free-speech/?mc_cid=c6de95ce3d&mc_eid=2190e49a54 Exchange between MPs Jess Phillips, Shockat Adam and Nick Timothy https://x.com/nj_timothy/status/1935738036983042508?s=46&t=YZKdwC8hdWThZq-sxVV0Fw That's Debatable is edited by Jason Clift

    45 min

  2. JUN 16

    In Defence of Banter and Books

    That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. In this week’s episode, Jan Macvarish and Connie Shaw discuss the FSU’s campaign against the ‘banter ban’. Connie describes legislative reforms that are being proposed as part of the government’s Employment Rights Bill and the problems the FSU has identified with them for free speech. FSU General Secretary addressed the audience at last week’s Comedy Unleashed gig and interviewed comedians including Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie and Francis Foster, about the prospect of ‘banter bouncers’ in venues, clubs and pubs. You can find out more and watch the video here. Toby also appeared on Sunday’s Free Speech Nation (around 1 hour 35 minutes in) to discuss the bill with Andrew Doyle. Connie encourages viewers and listeners to use our special online tool to alert members of the House of Lords to the dangers of the Bill and to encourage them to support Lord Young’s amendments. It’s not just the FSU that has identified problems - the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has also warned of the ‘risk of unintended consequences’ and counselled the need to ‘balance…rights to freedom from harassment and freedom of expression’. You can read their briefing  here. Connie then introduces a news story she spotted about a US school-teacher who has been threatened with the sack for reading an unedited passage of To Kill A Mockingbird to pupils. She and Jan discuss how children need to be able to understand the context in which words gain their power and the role of teachers in guiding them through linguistic taboos that have changed over time. They then go on to talk about Ray Bradbury’s dystopian novel Fahrenheit 451, written in 1953, which imagines a future America where books are banned and destroyed by fire. The novel explores the impact on memory, imagination and the ability to think and experience emotion that this has. And finally, they return to the ‘banter’ question with an article reporting that a university researcher went undercover at his own golf club to analyse how jokes, innuendo and laddish banter forged a bonded but potentially exclusionary culture amongst golfers. The story raises questions about freedom of association, the role of humour in human relationships and research ethics. Edited by Jason Clift

    42 min

  3. JUN 10

    Connie’s Campus Strife

    That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. In this week’s episode, Jan Macvarish and Connie Shaw discuss the FSU’s campaign against the ‘banter ban’. Connie describes legislative reforms that are being proposed as part of the government’s Employment Rights Bill and the problems the FSU has identified with them for free speech. FSU General Secretary addressed the audience at last week’s Comedy Unleashed gig and interviewed comedians including Andrew Doyle, Josh Howie and Francis Foster, about the prospect of ‘banter bouncers’ in venues, clubs and pubs. You can find out more and watch the video here. Toby also appeared on Sunday’s Free Speech Nation (around 1 hour 35 minutes in) to discuss the bill with Andrew Doyle. Connie encourages viewers and listeners to use our special online tool to alert members of the House of Lords to the dangers of the Bill and to encourage them to support Lord Young’s amendments. It’s not just the FSU that has identified problems - the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) has also warned of the ‘risk of unintended consequences’ and counselled the need to ‘balance…rights to freedom from harassment and freedom of expression’. You can read their briefing  here. Connie then introduces a news story she spotted about a US school-teacher who has been threatened with the sack for reading an unedited passage of To Kill A Mockingbird to pupils. She and Jan discuss how children need to be able to understand the context in which words gain their power and the role of teachers in guiding them through linguistic taboos that have changed over time. They then go on to talk about Ray Bradbury’s dystopian novel Fahrenheit 451, written in 1953, which imagines a future America where books are banned and destroyed by fire. The novel explores the impact on memory, imagination and the ability to think and experience emotion that this has. And finally, they return to the ‘banter’ question with an article reporting that a university researcher went undercover at his own golf club to analyse how jokes, innuendo and laddish banter forged a bonded but potentially exclusionary culture amongst golfers. The story raises questions about freedom of association, the role of humour in human relationships and research ethics. Edited by Jason Clift

    46 min

  4. JUN 3

    Classroom Battles

    That’s Debatable!’ is the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan MacVarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week. Please like, subscribe and share. This week, the Free Speech Union’s Education and Events Director Jan Macvarish takes the steering wheel as Tom Harris is away. She is joined by the Free Speech Union’s Case Management Officer Lynsey Metcalfe to discuss some research Lynsey is conducting into the free speech issues that arise in schools. It will be published in the coming months on the FSU website. Lynsey and Jan also refer to last week’s book launch for Andrew Doyle’s The End of Woke, the video of which has already been watched thousands of times and can be viewed here. A video from the FSU/Women’s Rights Network event held last weekend in Manchester with Akua Reindorf KC that is also mentioned will be posted on our You Tube channel by the end of the week. That's Debatable!’ is edited by Jason Clift.

    44 min

  5. MAY 20

    Police Our Streets Not Our Tweets

    With the FSU’s backing, Lucy Connolly, jailed for a tweet about migrants that she posted following the Southport murders, has been fighting her 31-month sentence in the Court of Appeal. Although a verdict was expected on Thursday when the hearing concluded, the Court will now be providing a written judgement, somewhat vaguely scheduled for “as soon as possible”. Allison Pearson has written a powerful piece about the ongoing saga in the Telegraph. A member of the FSU’s legal advisory council, Andrew Tettenborn, has written in Spiked about the European Commission’s threat to bring legal proceedings against Ireland for allegedly failing to comply with a 2008 framework decision that seeks to criminalise Holocaust denial or trivialisation of the Holocaust or other crimes against humanity. As Andrew points out, Ireland has had hate speech laws of its own since 1989 and even imposed a law last year that increases the length of prison sentences for certain crimes that are proved to be motivated by hate. We end today’s episode with a discussion around Helen Joyce’s recent appearance on BBC Woman’s Hour. ‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

    38 min

  6. MAY 13

    Licence to Offend

    Julian Foulkes, a retired Special Constable, was arrested and held in a cell for eight hours over a tweet warning about the threat to British Jews posed by the pro-Palestinian marches. In October of 2023, he responded to another tweet criticising Suella Braverman for describing the pro-Palestinian protests that were sweeping the country in the aftermath of the massacre in Southern Israel as ‘hate marches’. As reported in the Telegraph, the day after someone complained about Julian’s tweet, six police officers turned up at his home, ransacked the premises, arrested him, detained him for eight hours and gave him a caution. Julian retained the services of a solicitor and, with his help, got Kent Police to admit they’d made a mistake and delete the caution from his record. Julian, who has now joined the Free Speech Union, is now going to sue the force for wrongful arrest, as well as unlawful interference in his right to liberty. You can contribute to Julian’s crowdfunder here. We move on to discuss two ways in which the FSU has stepped in to help with free expression events: the Lewes Speakers Festival on Friday 9th May and the re-platforming of the ‘Licence to Offend’ cartoon exhibition. There is good news to report in the world of football where Cerys Vaughan has spoken out about her Kafkaesque trial after asking a transgender opponent: “Are you a man?”. Following a three-month battle, an appeal board of the FA quashed the ruling against her in a damning – and alarming – judgment on the original proceedings. As reported in the Telegraph, the written reasons state: she had not received a fair hearing during a three-hour video call that left her in tears; proper consideration had not been given to her age or the evidence against her; and she was wrongly found guilty “by own admission” when she had denied the charges. We end with an update on our event with Andrew Doyle on the 29th May, which is now both in-person and online. ‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

    36 min

  7. APR 29

    Journalism in the Dock

    According to College of Policing guidance, Non-Crime Hate Incidents (NCHIs) help forces build an intelligence picture of community tensions and understand where they need to allocate resources for prevention. Indeed, during a House of Lords debate in November 2024, Lord Hanson, the Home Office minister, told peers: “It is vital that the police monitor non-crime hate incidents when proportionate and necessary to do so to help prevent serious crimes”. However, the Telegraph reports that freedom of information requests submitted to police by Harry Miller, the founder of Fair Cop, revealed that many of the biggest forces, including the Met, Greater Manchester and West Midlands do not actually analyse the NCHI data they collect. Meanwhile, the Conservatives are tabling an amendment to the Crime and Policing Bill to abolish non-crime hate incidents. FSU members can use our Campaigns tool to write to their MPs to urge them to vote for this amendment. In our next item, we discuss the barring of Renaud Camus, a French philosopher, from entering the UK due to his controversial views on immigration. Lord Young is quoted in the Telegraph, “We’ve reached out to him to see if he’d like any help in appealing this decision, and he said yes. So I anticipate that we are going to be getting an immigration lawyer on the case”. He adds, “I don’t think that the common good is endangered by inviting people to set out their contentious views in the public square, particularly not someone as distinguished as Mr Camus”. We end with a brief discussion on a new FSU briefing paper written by Trevor Kavanagh and entitled, “Journalism in the Dock, Sir Keir Starmer’s Baseless Prosecution of Tabloid Journalists as Director of Public Prosecutions”. The video of Monday’s FSU event, “Lifeblood of Democracy”, where we discussed the issues raised within the paper and Operation Elveden, will soon be available on our website. ‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

    40 min

  8. APR 15

    FSU Case Data Highlights

    We have just completed our quarterly analysis of FSU casework and dive into the results of that during today’s episode. The first quarter of 2025 was our busiest ever with 411 new incidents received in the FSU inbox. This growth in caseload is directly related to the continuing increase in FSU active membership, which is now running at over 4,000 new members per quarter. ‘State Intervention’, which ranges from police contact and Non-Crime Hate Incidents through to arrest and prosecution, is a growing proportion of our work, representing 23% of new cases for the year to date, up from just 10% as recently as 2023. The good news is that, for cases that we see through from beginning to end, our member achieves a favourable outcome 80% of the time. We end the episode with a discussion on our third Belfast speakeasy that was held on Friday 11th April – the video should be up later in the week. We wish all our listeners and viewers a very Happy Easter! ‘That's Debatable!’  is edited by Jason Clift.

    48 min
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About

Welcome to ‘That’s Debatable!’, the weekly podcast of the Free Speech Union. Hosts Tom Harris and Jan Macvarish – both staffers at the FSU – talk about the free speech controversies that have erupted in the past week and interview some of the main protagonists in those dramas. Edited by Jason Clift. Please like, subscribe and share. Thank you.

Information

  • Creator
    The Free Speech Union
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2025
  • Episodes
    100
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2023 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    That’s Debatable!

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