The Burnouts with Phoebe & Sophia

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As former Stanford roommates and now business partners, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni share their experience as startup founders and the complexities of being young professionals—from financial literacy, social impact, and navigating networking (ever been hit on through LinkedIn?). With exclusive access to top experts, they offer an inside look at their chaotic lives alongside career insights from their network of thought leaders. Watch The Burnouts pursue their dreams while trying to keep their lives from going up in flames. Will they burn out? We’ll find out.

  1. 6 DAYS AGO

    Pop Star Ava Max on the Real Story Behind “Sweet But Psycho” and Why She Left The Spotlight

    Global pop icon Ava Max went from a first-generation immigrant household to topping charts in over 20 countries with hits like “Sweet but Psycho,” “Kings & Queens,” and “Maybe You’re the Problem.” With over 70 billion streams and a signature fearless style, Ava is rewriting what it means to own your power in the music industry. In this episode of The Burnouts, Ava Max joins Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni for a raw, unfiltered conversation about her rise to stardom — from moving to LA at 14, surviving predatory industry environments, and nearly quitting music, to finding her voice, building her sound, and creating a global pop phenomenon. She opens up about the grind behind her success, the trauma and resilience that shaped her, and the inspiration behind her new album, “Don’t Click Play." Ava shares stories of losing her voice at the peak of her breakout hit, navigating fame while staying grounded, and why protecting her energy has become her top priority. Plus: what it really takes to build a lasting career in pop, the pressures of being “always on,” and her vision for a future stadium tour. Whether you’re an aspiring artist, a longtime fan, or just looking for motivation to keep going when life knocks you down, this episode is filled with lessons on persistence, self-belief, and embracing your unique voice. 🎶 STREAM AVA'S ALBUM "DON'T CLICK PLAY" Chapters 00:00 – The moment Ava Max walked into our studio… 01:00 – From Virginia to LA: the bold move that changed everything 04:00 – The brutal reality of chasing a dream at 14 07:00 – Five years of rejection… and the one “yes” that changed her life 09:00 – “My vocal cords exploded” — what really happened at the height of her first hit 11:00 – The night the Max Cut was born (and why it changed her career) 13:00 – Finding her sound: the secret to songs that empower millions 16:00 – What going viral really feels like (and why it’s not always what you think) 19:00 – Behind the curtain: the exhausting truth about touring 22:00 – The business of pop: labels, teams, and staying in control 24:00 – Why she disappeared from social media (and how she’s coming back stronger) 26:00 – Stadium tour dreams and a secret creative project you haven’t heard about 28:00 – How Ava Max turns doubt into fuel 30:00 – “Don’t Click Play”: the album that almost never happened 🔗 FOLLOW AVA MAX Instagram TikTok Website 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 📲 Support What We’re Building Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping you find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app. About The Burnouts The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to share the real stories, lessons, and mindsets that define your 20s. Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and other visionaries redefining the brands—and the blueprints—of our time. Subscribe now for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

    32 min

  2. 21 AUG

    Meet the Pre-Med Nerd Who Modeled for Sports Illustrated and Became a $6M Forbes Creator (@haleyybaylee)

    Model, creator, comedian, and Forbes Top Creator—Haley Kalil has lived a thousand lives (from science labs to Sports Illustrated covers to viral comedy). In this episode of The Burnouts, Haley Kalil sits down with Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni to share her rollercoaster journey: trading biomedical science for beauty pageants, paying her way through college, breaking into modeling without an agent, and then going viral overnight to build a multi-million-dollar creator career. She opens up about navigating divorce, escaping an abusive relationship, reinventing herself through comedy, and betting everything on content creation. Plus: how she made her first $50k/month off YouTube shorts, why brand deals aren’t always the answer, and the financial realities (and taxes) of being a top digital creator. Haley also gets real about the stigma of divorce, the pressure successful women face while dating, her viral “Billionaire Boyfriend” series, and what it really takes to stay authentic while scaling a $6M+ creator business. Whether you’re dreaming of a career in content, modeling, or building your own creator-led brand, this conversation is packed with lessons, raw honesty, and plenty of laughs. Chapters 00:00 – From biomedical science to beauty pageants 04:30 – Winning Miss Minnesota & paying for college with scholarships 06:00 – Sports Illustrated open casting call via Instagram 10:00 – Early modeling days & mental resilience 12:00 – Viral apartment tour → pivot to content creation 15:00 – Betting everything on YouTube & posting 5x a day 19:00 – Hitting $50k/month in ad revenue 22:00 – The viral “Billionaire Boyfriend” series 24:00 – Divorce stigma, healing, and rebuilding 29:00 – Going from red carpets to Oscars & Met Gala 33:00 – Social media backlash & accountability 37:00 – Advice for creators on finding your voice 41:00 – Monetization: ad revenue vs. brand deals 46:00 – Staying authentic in partnerships 48:00 – The true costs of creator life (taxes, management fees) 50:00 – What’s next for Haley 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Haley Kalil 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 📲 Support What We’re Building Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a new fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app, try it out, and help us grow this community from the ground up. About The Burnouts The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real blueprint for building power in your 20s. Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more visionaries redefining the brands—and the blueprints—of our time. Subscribe now for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

    54 min

  3. 14 AUG

    Meet the Disney Child Star Who Exposed Hollywood and Took Back Their Power (ft. Alyson Stoner)

    From Disney Channel star to outspoken mental health advocate, Alyson Stoner has lived a life in the spotlight—and paid the price. In this episode of The Burnouts, Alyson joins Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni to open up about the truth behind child stardom, the eating disorder that forced them to step away from Hollywood, and the box of documents that changed everything they thought they knew about their childhood. They share what it was really like growing up famous, the toxic systems that exploit young talent, and the powerful tools they use today to protect their mental health. Plus: how they’re redefining success, finding purpose beyond fame, and why they named their memoir Semi Well-Adjusted. 📖 Alyson’s memoir Semi Well-Adjusted Despite Literally Everything is out now. CHAPTERS 00:00 – Growing up on Disney Channel & Missy Elliott 02:15 – The moment Alyson stepped away from Hollywood 05:00 – The “toddler to train wreck” pipeline of child performers 06:45 – Losing childhood in the age of social media 08:00 – Playing firsts on camera without living them in real life 09:20 – How toxic Hollywood work environments really are 10:45 – Why “exposure” doesn’t pay the bills 12:00 – The hidden costs of going viral 13:40 – Tools Alyson uses to shake off stress 16:00 – Mind-body practices for anxiety & burnout 18:30 – Why different states of mind need different mindfulness tools 20:00 – Stillness vs. somatic tools for busy minds 22:00 – Reading their Camp Rock diary years later 24:00 – Why now was the time to write Semi Well-Adjusted 25:10 – The box of documents that changed their life story 27:00 – What “Semi Well-Adjusted” really means 28:15 – Choosing causes and building advocacy work 30:00 – Purpose as a constellation, not a North Star 32:00 – Advice for navigating anxiety and depression 34:45 – How to process rejection without losing yourself 37:00 – Focusing on what you can control 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Alyson Stoner 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 💙 Support What We’re Building Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a new fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app, try it out, and help us grow this community from the ground up  ❤️‍🔥 Get a Free 90 Day Trial of Movement Genius: 1. Go to Movement Genius 2. Choose Monthly Membership 3. Use code THEBURNOUTS 🕯️✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE ✨🕯️

    38 min

  4. 7 AUG

    How a Broke Bartender Turned $50 Into a Multi-Million Dollar Brand—The Skinny Confidential

    Beauty founder, podcast queen, brand builder—Lauryn Bosstick turned a $50 blog into The Skinny Confidential empire. In this episode of The Burnouts, Lauryn joins Phoebe and Sophia in Austin, TX to talk about building a cult brand from scratch. From sleeping in her car during sorority rush to creating one of the world’s most downloaded podcasts, Lauryn shares how she built her brand brick by brick—with no investors, no shortcuts, and no selling out. She gets real about early burnout, building slowly with intention, and why executing (not overthinking) is the secret to everything. Plus: what makes someone a great podcast guest, how she evaluates brand deals, and the hilarious parenting trick she swears by (cookie water, anyone?) Also: foot spas, Think Week, and how not having an iPhone gave Phoebe character. 🕯️✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE  ✨🕯️ CHAPTERS 00:00 – From sorority dropout to brand founder 02:30 – Why she launched The Skinny Confidential 05:00 – Blogging 7 days a week for 3 years (with $0) 10:10 – Turning down money (and why she’s proud of it) 12:30 – Lauryn’s funnel: how she vets guests + brand deals 16:10 – The advice she gives every 20-something brand builder 17:00 – The one hire every founder should make first 20:45 – Think Week, foot spas, and strategic solitude 27:00 – How she uses branding tricks to parent toddlers 30:00 – Personal vs public: what Lauryn won’t post online 35:00 – Resourcefulness over resumes in the age of AI 38:00 – The biggest mistake most creatives make 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Lauryn Bosstick 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn

    40 min

  5. 31 JUL

    Why You’ll Never Get Rich From a Paycheck (Ft. $1B Fund Manager)

    He’s redefined how millions think about money. But what Morgan Housel says about paychecks, wealth, and regret will completely flip your idea of what it means to be “rich.” In part 2 of The Burnouts interview, Morgan Housel joins Sophia Kianni and Phoebe Gates for a conversation that unpacks the biggest money myths we’ve been sold—from why chasing a high salary will never make you wealthy to how the American Dream became a lie our generation can’t afford. They go deep on: The psychology of feeling broke even when you’re notWhy wealth is built with ownership, not incomeWhat 90-year-olds wish they did differently with moneyHow gender impacts the way we’re taught to think about risk, equity, and ambitionAnd the real reason no amount of money ever feels like enoughAlso: MrBeast vs. the media industry, what kids actually learn about money, and why comparing yourself to others is the fastest path to lifelong financial anxiety. This is the part they don’t teach in school—and the stuff most financial “experts” get wrong. 💸✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE LIMITED-EDITION PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE ✨💸 CHAPTERS 00:00 – Why most people will never feel rich 3:40 – Social media, comparison, and financial anxiety 7:15 – What 1,000 elderly people regret about money 11:10 – The American Dream is changing—fast 15:00 – College, homeownership, and economic reality 19:30 – Why you won’t get rich from a paycheck 23:45 – The power of equity (especially for women) 27:20 – Risk, regret, and knowing when to bet on yourself 32:00 – Teaching kids about money (without lectures) 36:40 – Are we wired to be bad with money? 40:00 – Why no one tells you this about success 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Morgan Housel 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn

    31 min

  6. 24 JUL

    Avoid These Money Mistakes to Get Rich (ft. $1 Billion Fund Manager)

    He didn’t go to high school. He valeted Ferraris he couldn’t afford. Now he’s one of the most trusted money minds in the world. In this episode of The Burnouts, bestselling author and VC partner Morgan Housel joins Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni for a conversation that will completely rewire how you think about wealth, ambition, and what “enough” actually means. He shares how fear—not ambition—drove him to work two full-time jobs at 19, save every dollar like the apocalypse was coming, and obsess over flashy cars as a way to feel worthy. They unpack why most people are playing the wrong financial game, why trying to “beat the market” backfires, and why some of the richest people you know still feel broke inside. Also: dating while broke, how having a kid ended his materialism overnight, and the one expensive gift he regrets buying to impress his now-wife. This is the money education you should’ve gotten—but probably didn’t. It’s about psychology, not spreadsheets. Scarcity, not flexing. And no, you’re not the only one faking it. 💸✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE LIMITED-EDITION PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE ✨💸 Chapters 00:00 — Who is Morgan Housel? 02:45 – Why everyone’s playing a different money game 05:20 – Dropping out + the fear that made him save 08:30 – What the guy with the yellow Ferrari taught him 12:55 – How becoming a dad changed his financial goals 15:00 – The most common investing mistake 20:10 – The dumbest flex gift he ever bought 23:40 – Talking money while dating in your 20s 29:00 – His current investing strategy (it’s very boring) 34:30 – How to stop chasing status and start building wealth 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Morgan Housel 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 📲 Download the Phia app to start saving money: www.phia.com Subscribe to The Burnouts for exclusive conversations with today’s top founders and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by former Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, this isn’t just another founder podcast—it’s untold conversations and the unfiltered reality of what it takes to build your dream career in your 20s. Guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more visionaries defining the brands—and blueprints—of our time. Whether you’re dreaming big or building now, these are the conversations that will show you how it’s done (and what no one else tells you). 🔔 Subscribe now to get the blueprint for building your dream career

    25 min

  7. 17 JUL

    Meet The Journalist Every Tech Billionaire is Afraid Of (Ft. Kara Swisher)

    Legend. Disruptor. Tech’s sharpest critic. Kara Swisher doesn’t just cover Silicon Valley—she holds it accountable. On this episode of The Burnouts, Kara sits down with Phoebe and Sophia for an unfiltered conversation about building a career on her own terms (and never waiting her turn). From calling out mistakes at The Washington Post as a college student to becoming the most feared interviewer in tech, Kara shares the bold decisions, brutal lessons, and behind-the-scenes power moves that shaped her journey. She gets real about the early days of tech reporting, navigating anti-gay and anti-women environments, the importance of always asking for more (and walking away if you don’t get it), and what it really takes to own your IP in a world built by and for powerful men. Plus: Why women need to ask for more (and not wait their “fucking turn”) Come for the stories about Steve Jobs, Elon, and Succession-style media drama—stay for Kara’s hard-won wisdom on surviving, thriving, and never selling yourself short. Also: why “fuck you money” only matters if you’re willing to use it. 🕯️✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE  ✨🕯️ Chapters 00:00 — Who is Kara Swisher? 02:30 – Getting hired by criticizing The Washington Post 06:00 – Losing her dad young & finding independence 09:15 – Money mistakes and financial advice for women 12:30 – Learning to negotiate, ask for more, and own her IP 18:00 – Walking away from Dow Jones and the New York Times 21:30 – Why power makes tech moguls weird 27:00 – The shrinking world of billionaires and “cashmere prisons” 29:00 – On grilling Zuckerberg, interviewing Jobs, and the point of journalism 32:00 – Advice for building a career in media today 35:00 – Kara’s blueprint: Be useful, be entertaining, be unique 🔗 FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Kara Swisher 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 📲 Download the Phia app Subscribe to The Burnouts for exclusive conversations with today’s top founders and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by former Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, this isn’t just another founder podcast—it’s untold conversations and the unfiltered reality of what it takes to build your dream career in your 20s. Guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more visionaries defining the brands—and blueprints—of our time. Whether you’re dreaming big or building now, these are the conversations that will show you how it’s done (and what no one else tells you). 🔔 Subscribe now to get the blueprint for building your dream career

    37 min

  8. 10 JUL

    Why Supermodel Karlie Kloss Quit Victoria’s Secret to Build a Tech Empire

    Model, investor, activist, founder—Karlie Kloss has worn a lot of hats (and a lot of couture). In this episode of The Burnouts, Karlie sits down with Phoebe and Sophia to talk about what happens when your “dream job” turns into something more. From getting scouted at 13 and walking Dior at 15, to launching Kode With Klossy and acquiring i-D magazine, Karlie shares the real story behind the headlines—and how she’s used her platform to build power on her own terms. She opens up about early burnout, learning to trust her instincts, and the pressure of growing up in public. Plus: how she used brand deals to fund a coding nonprofit, why she angel invested in tampons, and what she’s learned about failure, focus, and building a career that actually lasts. Also: how she made $10k flying economy??? 🕯️✨ USE CODE "BURNOUTS15" FOR 15% OFF THE PHLUR X THE BURNOUTS CANDLE ✨🕯️ CHAPTERS 00:00 — Who is Karlie Kloss? 02:15 – Getting scouted at 13 04:10 – Saving every dollar (even mid-Fashion Week) 06:30 – Modeling as a means, not the end 09:20 – Using social media as a business tool 11:00 – Starting Kode With Klossy 15:10 – Investing in women-led companies 18:45 – Mistakes, pivots, and building something real 24:00 – Why she uses her dinner parties to fund reproductive rights 29:20 – Reimagining i-D for the next generation 33:00 – Advice for young women entering fashion 35:00 – Letting go of the pressure to have it all figured out FOLLOW US Phoebe Gates Sophia Kianni Karlie Kloss 🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS Instagram TikTok LinkedIn 📲 Download the Phia app: www.phia.com Subscribe to The Burnouts for exclusive conversations with today’s top founders and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by former Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, this isn’t just another founder podcast—it’s untold conversations and the unfiltered reality of what it takes to build your dream career in your 20s. Guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more visionaries defining the brands—and blueprints—of our time. Whether you’re dreaming big or building now, these are the conversations that will show you how it’s done (and what no one else tells you).  🔔 Subscribe now to get the blueprint for building your dream career

    37 min
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As former Stanford roommates and now business partners, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni share their experience as startup founders and the complexities of being young professionals—from financial literacy, social impact, and navigating networking (ever been hit on through LinkedIn?). With exclusive access to top experts, they offer an inside look at their chaotic lives alongside career insights from their network of thought leaders. Watch The Burnouts pursue their dreams while trying to keep their lives from going up in flames. Will they burn out? We’ll find out.

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