NOT DRINKING POISON Podcast Aaron Ayscough

I was thinking of when I was really young, five to ten years old, at primary school, [of posters that were] just to explain to us the cycle of a tree, or a flower... I wanted to take that kind of academic way of presentation to explain carbonic maceration to people. - Mathieu Lapierre
Mathieu Lapierre is the co-manager, along with his sister Camille, of famed Morgon estate Domaine Marcel Lapierre, which he has overseen since the passing of his father in 2010. Initially a chef by training, Mathieu Lapierre joined the family estate in 2004 after viticultural studies in Beaune. Few who have met him in his two decades at the estate fail to remark the breadth of his interests, which also include the piano, archaeology, and Legos.
The occasion for our chat in early January was the completion of a pet project he first mentioned to me several years ago: an educational poster about the process of carbonic maceration. I may just be the target audience for this sort of thing, but I suspect Lapierre’s finished poster has an impressive potential to improve the global wine conversation, which remains rife with inaccuracies and mistaken impressions where it concerns carbonic maceration.
It is a situation that persists simply because questions about carbonic maceration most often arise in wine shops, wine bars, and restaurants, where informed staff are often too hurried to effectively explain the process. In such a way, Lapierre’s new poster is an inspired marriage between message and medium: it offers, in the form of a handsome poster illustrated with watercolors by French cartoonist GAB, information that is helpful on the wall of a wine establishment. Check out the podcast for a history of carbonic maceration; the sociopolitical values embedded in its practice; and the link between carbonic maceration and aged meat.
Aaron
This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus years of vigneron interviews, profiles, news reports, and commentary - please subscribe!


FURTHER READING & LISTENING
Eloi Gros: An Homage to Vanishing Beaujolais-Villages
BOOK REVIEW: Jacques Néauport, Le Dilettante
Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in France, Part IPodcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in France, Part II
Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part IPodcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II
Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part IPodcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe

Despite the fact that I was in art before, I don’t perceive tending vines and making wine as art. And therefore I myself don’t feel comfortable excusing my prices because it’s a special little artsy thing... It’s not what I’ve been learning for the last fifteen years. - Stephana Nicolescou
Half-French, half-Romanian, and raised in Chicago, Stephana Nicolescou is a well-traveled natural wine jack-of-all-trades who, since 2017, has been helping run the 5ha Ardèche estate of her companion, renowned Czech vigneron Andrea Calek. In 2019 and 2020, she also produced négociant micro-cuvées of her own as Une Strop, an Ardèche cinsault and a Loir-et-Cher cabernet franc, respectively. In addition to her winemaking activities, she is an avid scuba diver and amateur pilot, and routinely organizes a natural wine stand at the Django Reinhardt Jazz Festival in Fontainebleau.
Nicolescou left the USA to attend art school in Paris at age eighteen. Her introduction to natural wine came a few years later, after dropping out, when she managed the popular 1st-arrondissement natural wine bar Le Garde Robe. She left the position in 2011 to embrace wine production, first working in Andalucia for Bodega Cauzon, and later for Clos Roche Blanche and Michel Augé of Les Maisons Brûlées. She moved to Ardèche in 2014 with her then-companion Samuel Boulay, who had taken up the vineyards of retiring Ardèche natural wine pioneer Gilles Azzoni. When that relationship ended, she returned to Spain, where she worked for Bodega Marenas, before returning to Ardèche at the end of 2016 to work for Andrea Calek
I first met Nicolescou shortly after arriving to Paris in 2009, when I worked in central Paris and frequented apéro hours at Le Garde Robe. I lost track of her when she left for Spain, only to re-encounter her in 2018, when I arrived for a tasting appointment with Calek and was surprised to see another familiar face. Nowadays I make a stop at the couple’s handsome bioclimatic abode whenever I’m in the region, most recently before the Montpellier salons in late January, when we recorded this podcast. Check it out for Nicolescou’s plans for her own winemaking; her perspective on the Chicago natural wine scene; and how she intends to survive a zombie apocalypse in Ardèche.
Aaron
This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all episodes - plus years of natural wine profiles, reports, and interviews - please subscribe!

FURTHER READING & LISTENING
NDP Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in FranceEp. 14: Katie Worobeck of Maison MaenadEp. 15: Hannah Fuellenkemper of ABRACADABRAEp. 16: Joe Jefferies of Les Bories JefferiesEp. 17: Jon Purcell of Vin NoéEp. 18: Michele Smith-Chapel of Domaine ChapelEp. 20: Kenji Hodgson of Vins HodgsonEp. 21: Stephen Roberts of Fondugues-PraduguesEp. 22: Oriane Rosner of Ori Vin
A Feb. 2021 piece about disgorging pét-nat with Stephana Nicolescou. The Legend of Andrea Calek’s Grande Arnaque
NDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part INDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II
NDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part INDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe

In Auvergne, the winemakers are very independent. I don't know if it's the Auvergne that makes you like this or if it's the people. Because not a lot of the winemakers in the Auvergne are actually from the Auvergne. They come from somewhere else and I think maybe they come to a place like this because they like to be alone. - Hannah Fuellenkemper
There are, I often say, two ways to fall in love with natural wine, not mutually exclusive. One is to learn about it, taste widely, and begin buying it in favor of all other sorts of wine. The other is to find yourself rearranging your whole life so as to be able to make your own natural wine. Hannah Fuellenkemper, a peripatetic American natural wine négociant now finally somewhat settled in the Auvergne, is a poster-woman for this latter way of falling in love with natural wine.
Born in Germany, raised between the USA and England, Fuellenkemper obtained a law degree in Amsterdam before discovering an interest in natural wine at the city’s wine bars. She followed her muse to wine salons in France and a revelatory experience harvesting with the Cousin family in Anjou in 2017. She interned for Manuel di Vecchi Staraz at Vinyer de la Ruca in Banyuls before moving her base to the Ardèche, where for several seasons she worked on and off for the regions’ natural vignerons, including Sylvain Bock and Andrea Calek / Stephana Nicolescu. In 2019 she did a season of work in the Loire for François Saint-Lô; the same year, she began making a small quantity of her own négociant wine.
Following a series of precarious and improvised cellar situations around Auvergne, Fuellenkemper at last established a stable cellar rental this year near the town of Brioudes. In 2023 she produced an impressive 10’000 bottles of her radically handmade natural négociant wines, sourced chiefly from the south of France, and recognizable by the paint spatters they bear in lieu of front labels. Fuellenkemper and I met in 2018 and soon began exchanging wine tips, crash pads, and winemaking labor in the course of our travels around France. I caught up with her in December 2023 as she headed home to America for the holidays. Check out the episode for Fuellenkemper’s memories of sleeping in a cave in Berrie; her list of emergency kit survival items for rural French life; and her experiences with Tinder in Auvergne.
Aaron
This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus years of vigneron interviews, profiles, tasting reports, and commentary - please subscribe!

FURTHER READING & LISTENING
NDP Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in FranceEp. 14: Katie Worobeck of Maison MaenadEp. 16: Joe Jefferies of Les Bories JefferiesEp. 17: Jon Purcell of Vin NoéEp. 18: Michele Smith-Chapel of Domaine Chapel
The Art of Aurelien Lefort
NDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part INDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II
NDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part INDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe

When my two-year visa was over, I asked the Ganevats to help me with a working visa... During that time, I did receive some job offers in Canada. But there was still nothing that was as exciting as the wines we were making in the Jura. And I [figured] I would rather be a little vineyard donkey doing whatever at [Domaine] Ganevat than be the head honcho somewhere making wines that I don’t really believe in. - Katie Worobeck
Katie Worobeck is a Canadian vigneronne (and fellow Substack writer!) based in the village of Orbagna in the Sud Revermont, where since 2022 she farms a 3ha vineyard boasting all five classic Jura varieties in nearby Saint-Laurent-La-Roche. Her French winemaking debut came earlier, in 2019, during her four-year tenure working for Jura natural wine legend Jean-François Ganevat.
Worobeck’s career in wine traces its roots to 2011, when she decided to take a break after obtaining a Master’s degree in International Political Economy at the University of Toronto to take a trip WOOFFing throughout France, Italy, Croatia, and Turkey. Upon her return to Canada, she worked in restaurants in Ottawa, where an eccentric local farmer encouraged her interest in farming, and a benevolent employer offered to pay for WSET courses. Worobeck followed her burgeoning interest in wine to work at Norman Hardie Winery in Ontario, where fellow cellar hand (and future Ibiza natural wine importer) Cassady Sniatowsky and Montreal wine maven Vanya Filipovic helped spark Worobeck’s interest in natural winemaking. She worked harvest at Bouchard Finlayson in South Africa in 2015, before setting her sights on France, where she arrived to intern at Domaine Ganevat in 2017.
I met Worobeck at a party at German Burgundy négociant winemaker Bastian Wolber’s house in 2021. In the years since I’ve had innumerable occasions to be thankful for her friendship and support, whether during visits to the Jura, or at natural wine salons throughout France, or on panel discussions during trips abroad. I joined Worobeck at her home one early evening this past November to chat about living in Jean-François Ganevat’s mother’s apartment; Worobeck’s early winemaking experiences in Prince Edward County; and the time she accidentally attended a Latin dance class in the Jura.
Aaron
This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus years of vigneron interviews, profiles, tasting reports, and commentary - please subscribe!

FURTHER READING & LISTENING
NDP Podcast Series III: Les Emigré(e)s - Expat Natural Winemakers in FranceEp. 15: Hannah Fuellenkemper of ABRACADABRAEp. 16: Joe Jefferies of Les Bories JefferiesEp. 17: Jon Purcell of Vin NoéEp. 18: Michele Smith-Chapel of Domaine Chapel
Katie Worobeck, the Maenad of OrbagnaPulling Wood at Maison Maenad
NDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part INDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II
NDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part INDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe

It takes a whole set of skills to communicate at very big levels [in music.] But you sacrifice communication in certain ways to do that. And I'm sure it's the same with food and wine. You cannot assume that you can convey the [same] subtleties at scale. - Damon Krukowski
Damon Krukowski is a musician and writer based in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Inscribed in the annals of indie rock since his time as drummer in the influential dream-pop band Galaxie 500, Krukowski has since released music with his wife (and former Galaxie 500 bandmate) Naomi Yang as Damon & Naomi. Krukowski is also the author of several poetry collections, and two books on the changing nature of music and listening (2017’s The New Analog: Listening and Reconnecting in a Digital World and 2019’s Ways of Hearing). In recent years, he has emerged as a noted advocate for the rights of recordings artists in the face of systematic exploitation by streaming companies.
Krukowski is also a lifelong wine lover, whose tastes were formed during childhood family trips throughout France with his father, a Polish World War II refugee and abiding Francophile. It’s an interest Krukowski has kept alive throughout his career, whether via the Kermit Lynch newsletter, or through avid exploration of local “grandfather” cuisine during tours abroad.
Following a comically ill-starred Damon & Naomi concert in Paris this past September, Krukowski kindly joined me to talk music and wine over a bottle of Matassa. Check out the episode for Krukowski’s recollection of seeing Led Zeppelin at age thirteen; his take on Taylor Swift’s stadium performance technique; and the surprising parallels between the economics of indie rock and those of natural wine.
Aaron
This is a free episode of the NOT DRINKING POISON podcast. For access to all the episodes - plus years of vigneron interviews, profiles, tasting reports, and commentary - please subscribe!

FURTHER READING & LISTENING
Damon Krukowski’s November 30th piece in The Guardian decrying Spotify’s recent decision to cease paying artists whose recordings do not reach a certain threshold of streams.
NDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part INDP Podcast Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II
NDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part INDP Podcast Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part II
Damon Krukowski’s excellent Substack: Dada Drummer Almanach


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe

I realized [natural] winemakers in particular were outsiders in their communities, too, in a way. And I’ve always been kind of an underdog, an outsider. - Crislaine Medina
What does Crislaine Medina, the Cape Verde-born co-proprietor of Paris 19th arrondissement restaurant Le Cheval d’Or, have in common with legendary MCs MF Doom and 21 Savage? She, too, ran into trouble in the USA as a longtime illegal immigrant. In her case, after high school in Bucks Country, Pennsylvania, she found herself ineligible for university tuition aid in the USA. It inspired her to move to Paris, where alongside studies in literature she apprenticed herself to natural wine at Left Bank traditional bistrot Les Pipos. Before taking over the 19th-arrondissement restaurant Le Cheval d’Or with her husband Luis Andrade and their partners Nadim Smair and Hanz Gueco in August 2023, Medina had a star-making turn as the opening sommelière of 11th-arrondissement yakitori-and-more destination Le Rigmarole.
At Le Cheval d’Or, Medina collaborates with young Japanese sommelier Taiki Sakurai on an unusual natural wine list that aims to integrate as many international influences as their kitchen. (Chef Gueco is Philippino-Australian, while Andrade is Cape Verdean-Portuguese.) Alongside natural wine classics from the Beaujolais and Burgundy, one finds familiar favorites from Italy and newly-minted masterpieces from Moravia. (For the Le Cheval d’Or space itself, the new partnership also represents a rebirth of sorts, coming three years after the tragic passing of its former chef, Taku Sekine, who first brought renown to the site with a Chinese-inspired menu.)
During set-up at Le Cheval d’Or in early December, I joined Medina to talk about her decade of experience in Paris natural wine circles, and how her perspective as a lifelong immigrant has shaped her approach to hospitality, natural wine lists, and menus. Check out the episode for Medina’s thoughts on her most beloved Beaujolais vigneron; her early challenges selling natural wine in Paris as a foreign black woman speaking limited French at the time; and how she came to consider Paris her true home.
Aaron
FURTHER LISTENING & READING
NDP PODCAST Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part IEp. 7: Oliver Lomeli of Chambre NoireEp. 8: Jessica Yang & Robert Compagnon of Folderol & Le RigmaroleEp. 9: Louis Mesana of Café Montezuma
NDP PODCAST Series II: Contemporary Paris Natural Wine, Part IIEp. 11: Oliver Gage of Rock BottlesEp. 12: Nathan Ratapu of Rerenga Wines
NOT DRINKING POISON PODCAST Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part INOT DRINKING POISON PODCAST Series I: Paris Natural Wine Lifers, Part II


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit notdrinkingpoison.substack.com/subscribe