Divergent Conversations Megan Neff & Patrick Casale

Navigating a world packed with all sorts of seemingly mismatched sensations, either overstimulating or understimulating, and having passionate interests that can appear as all-consuming to others, can be challenging and greatly impact the way we build relationships and even just get through the day.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk about the nuances and misconceptions surrounding special interests and sensory experiences for Autistic people.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Learn about the role of special interests in fostering connections for Autistic individuals, and how personal sensory nuances impact relationships with oneself and the world around them.

Gain insights into how to create more inclusive autism assessments that acknowledge the diverse experiences of Autistic individuals, including behaviors, sensory experiences, or interests that might be more stereotypically associated with allistic individuals.

Understand the different sensory systems and explore the broad spectrum of sensory experiences that influence everything from social interactions and relationships to meeting basic necessities of food, clothes, and shelter.


Think about how we all experience the world differently and why it's important to make space for those differences so that we can honor who we are and have more compassion for one another.
Resources:
For this conversation, we are using Is This Autism By Dr. Donna Hendreson, Dr. Sarah Wayland, and Dr. Jamell White. You can find it here. But wait...
The publisher is giving our listeners a special coupon during this series! Use Code: NDI24 to get 30% off and free shipping Valid through 6-Jul 2024 (must purchase using this link)

We’ll be reading this book for our book club in June in the Neurodivergent Learning Nook. Learn more about our community here.
DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM. There have been a lot of very thoughtful critiques of the DSM in the last several years, including how autism is presented in the DSM as very deficit-based. We do not align with that view, but we did use that as a framework to walk through our experience of autism and to unpack the many ways that those criteria could show up in a person. This is our attempt to help demystify the process of diagnosis, which has historically been very obscure and hard to understand.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
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A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental healthcare field can be overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients while taking adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can get back to doing what you love — helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can scan a QR code to check in, which negates the need for yo

For many Autistic individuals, the consistency of routines isn't just nice, it's a way to accommodate the sensory needs of their systems. Routines are reflected internally and externally, and the disruption of these routines can result in great distress.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk about the comfort and chaos of daily routines and rituals, shedding light on the importance and challenges of these patterns in the lives of Autistic individuals.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain insight into all-or-nothing thinking, including its role in providing predictability and comfort. Learn how this way of thinking influences ideology, relationships, and advocacy efforts, and why we need more nuanced conversations.

Hear about how the struggle with flexibility can manifest differently for adolescent girls and boys, making it difficult to identify autism, leading to misunderstanding and overlooking what's going on.

Explore personal stories from Patrick and Dr. Neff that illuminate the daily struggles of inflexibility and routine disruption, such as dealing with last-minute plan changes and the perplexing difficulty of seemingly simple tasks.


Consider your routines: what keeps you grounded and how you manage when faced with the unexpected. Understanding the role of routines in the lives of Autistic individuals can help create more compassion and patience for ourselves and the people around us.
Resources:
For this conversation, we are using Is This Autism By Dr. Donna Hendreson, Dr. Sarah Wayland, and Dr. Jamell White. You can find it here. But wait...
The publisher is giving our listeners a special coupon during this series! Use Code: NDI24 to get 30% off and free shipping Valid through 6-Jul 2024 (must purchase using this link)

We’ll be reading this book for our book club in June in the Neurodivergent Learning Nook. Learn more about our community here.
DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM. There have been a lot of very thoughtful critiques of the DSM in the last several years, including how autism is presented in the DSM as very deficit-based. We do not align with that view, but we did use that as a framework to walk through our experience of autism and to unpack the many ways that those criteria could show up in a person. This is our attempt to help demystify the process of diagnosis, which has historically been very obscure and hard to understand.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental healthcare field can be overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients while taking adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can get back to doing what you love — helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can

Navigating social relationships can be a complex, nuanced journey for Autistic people, and the way it presents in day-to-day interactions and situations is incredibly diverse.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, discuss the complexities of friendship management for Autistic individuals, as well as explore the connection between relationships and common Autistic traits such as repetitive behavior, difficulty with flexibility, special interests that are intense or atypical, and sensory differences.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Unpack the different ways in which autistic individuals experience and navigate social connections, finding out why that can differ so greatly from neurotypical expectations.

Explore the challenges and distinct profiles of autistic social interactions, diving into the importance of understanding the role of social motivation and casing light on the often invisible energy it requires to maintain connections.

Gain insight into the world of special interests and repetitive behaviors, showcased through the personal experiences of Patrick and Dr. Neff.


As you journey through the intricacies of Autistic social interactions, take a moment to reflect on the unique ways in which people communicate and connect, perhaps finding a new understanding of your own social narrative.
Resources:
For this conversation, we are using Is This Autism By Dr. Donna Hendreson, Dr. Sarah Wayland, and Dr. Jamell White. You can find it here. But wait...
The publisher is giving our listeners a special coupon during this series! Use Code: NDI24 to get 30% off and free shipping Valid through 6-Jul 2024 (must purchase using this link)

We’ll be reading this book for our book club in June in the Neurodivergent Learning Nook. Learn more about our community here.
DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM. There have been a lot of very thoughtful critiques of the DSM in the last several years, including how autism is presented in the DSM as very deficit-based. We do not align with that view, but we did use that as a framework to walk through our experience of autism and to unpack the many ways that those criteria could show up in a person. This is our attempt to help demystify the process of diagnosis, which has historically been very obscure and hard to understand.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental health care field can be so overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients as well as take adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can get back to doing what you love — helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can scan a QR code to check in, which negates the need for you to buy an iPad and stand. G

What is autism? This question comes up a lot these days, and conversations around autism are extremely nuanced, making it hard to pinpoint one right way of looking at it, so let’s explore autism from what it means historically and clinically to how it represents identity, and all the things in between.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, start the conversation around autism with an honest and insightful discussion about “what is autism” and the intricacies of social interactions experienced by those on the spectrum.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Gain insights into the realities of social motivation and its challenges as our hosts reveal their personal struggles with engaging in conversations, especially when they're not “interesting” enough to fuel the interaction.

Understand the profound impact of autistic culture on communication forms, with Dr. Neff and Patrick breaking down the DSM-5 criteria of reciprocity, and offering their own thoughts on the criteria including a counterview of how care can be expressed in unique, meaningful ways for Autistic people.

Delve into the transforming neurodiversity landscape and consider how our language choices and the metaphors we use to understand autism can influence identity and self-perception, potentially shifting away from deficit-focused narratives.


To start to answer the question of “what is autism,” it’s important to consider the layers of effort and adaptation that accompany social encounters and reflect on your communication style.
Resources:
For this conversation, we are using Is This Autism By Dr. Donna Hendreson, Dr. Sarah Wayland, and Dr. Jamell White. You can find it here.
The publisher is giving our listeners a special coupon during this series! Use Code: NDI24 to get 30% off and free shipping Valid through 6-Jul 2024 (must purchase using this link)

We’ll be reading this book for our book club in June in the Neurodivergent Learning Nook. Learn more about our community here.
DISCLAIMER: We're using the DSM-5 criteria as a framework for this conversation, but this is not our endorsement of the DSM. There have been a lot of very thoughtful critiques of the DSM in the last several years, including how autism is presented in the DSM as very deficit-based. We do not align with that view, but we did use that as a framework to walk through our experience of autism and to unpack the many ways that those criteria could show up in a person. This is our attempt to help demystify the process of diagnosis.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️YouTube Music
▶️ YouTube
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental healthcare field can be overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients while taking adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can focus on helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where cli

Burnout can make even the simplest tasks feel insurmountable, as well as look and mean very different things when you approach it from the lens of neurodiversity, where the meanings, causes, and coping mechanisms become very nuanced.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Ann Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, explore the landscape of burnout, seasonal depression, and the importance of strategic withdrawal, offering solace and understanding to those who tread these difficult terrains.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Identify how what we call burnout might be related to co-occurring health conditions, such as alexithymia, chronic fatigue syndrome, seasonal depression, etc., and possibly require different approaches.

Shed light on internalized ableism and grief, and how recognizing and honoring your limitations can be both a struggle and a profound form of self-care.

Learn strategies for addressing burnout that are tailored to neurodivergent individuals, as well as how to communicate your needs to the people around you to protect your energy without causing worry.


Remember that acknowledging and respecting your brain's unique wiring isn't a sign of weakness — it's a brave act of self-compassion. Reflect on how you can implement these lessons into your life, honor your natural rhythms, and create your own Ulysses pacts with yourself and trusted people to safeguard your future self. Let's continue this conversation and support each other in our collective journeys towards mental harmony.
Resources:

Check out the article “A conceptual model of risk and protective factors for autistic burnout” by Jane Mantzalas, Amanda Richdale, and Cheryl Dissanayake here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/359924348_A_conceptual_model_of_risk_and_protective_factors_for_autistic_burnout


Citation: Mantzalas, J., Richdale, A. L., & Dissanayake, C. (2022). A conceptual model of risk and protective factors for autistic burnout. Autism research : official journal of the International Society for Autism Research, 15(6), 976–987. https://doi.org/10.1002/aur.2722


–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️Google
▶️ YouTube
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental health care field can be so overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients as well as take adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and it takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can get back to doing what you love — helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can scan a QR code to check in, which negates the need for you to buy an iPad and stand. Go to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice and sign up for a free 14-day trial. When you do, you'll get your first month free. And don't forget to ask about our iPad list check-in option.

A traditional workplace can be really challenging for neurodivergent individuals, and if a workplace culture is made to be one-size-fits-all, the chances are high that it won’t fit for many neurodivergent people.
In this episode, Patrick Casale and Dr. Megan Anna Neff, two AuDHD mental health professionals, talk with Lyric Rivera, founder of NeuroDivergent Consulting, author, and later-in-life diagnosed AuDHD person, about how to create neurodivergent-affirming spaces, including in the workplace and in online communities.
Top 3 reasons to listen to the entire episode:

Understand the essential need to reframe our workplace cultures to not just accommodate but truly embrace the strengths that neurodivergent individuals bring to the table.

Discover the nuanced challenges adults face with a later-in-life neurodivergent discovery, including unraveling the web of self-deprecating beliefs to shift to self-compassion and understanding.

Learn how to implement neurodivergent-friendly practices in the workplace and communities that can lead to more open communication, allow people to play to their strengths, and give individuals the resources and environment they need to show up as their best.


There is still a lot of work to be done to create workplaces and other spaces that truly embrace and accommodate neurodiversity, but by implementing Lyric’s suggestions, we can start leaning into people’s strengths and allow for more growth, better solutions, and spaces that feel safe and welcoming.
More about Lyric Rivera:
Lyric Rivera is the founder of NeuroDivergent Consulting and author of the best-selling business ethics book Workplace Neurodiversity Rising, named “Trend for 2023” and praised in Forbes as “an excellent ‘how to manual’ based on lived Experience and professional competence.” Lyric also runs the blog NeuroDivergent Rebel and is known as the pioneer of the #AskingAutistics hashtag.

Buy Lyric’s Book: books2read.com/neurodiversity-rising


Website: neurodivergentrebel.com


Facebook: facebook.com/NeurodivergentRebel


Substack: neurodivergentrebel.substack.com


Threads: threads.net/@neurodivergentrebel


YouTube: youtube.com/@NeurodivergentRebel


TikTok: tiktok.com/@.neurodivergentrebel



Resources:
Check out Dr. Neff’s new book, Self-Care for Autistic People, here: neurodivergentinsights.com/self-care-for-autistic-people

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
🎙️Listen to more episodes of the Divergent Conversations Podcast here
🎙️Spotify
🎙️Apple
🎙️Google
▶️ YouTube
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

A Thanks to Our Sponsors: Freed & The Receptionist for iPad

✨ Freed:
I would also like to thank Freed for sponsoring this episode.
Being a clinician in today's medical or mental health care field can be so overstimulating. It can be so hard to focus on clients as well as take adequate notes. Freed.AI listens, transcribes, and writes medical documentation for you, written in your style and ready the moment the visit is over. No more overstimulation or letting things fall through the cracks. Freed is HIPAA compliant, secure, and it takes less than 30 seconds to learn. More importantly, Freed supports your executive function skills, so you can get back to doing what you love — helping your clients.
Go to getfreed.ai and use code DCPOD for your first month free.
✨ The Receptionist for iPad:
I would also like to thank The Receptionist for iPad for sponsoring this episode.
The Receptionist offers an iPad list check-in option where clients can scan a QR code to check in, which negates the need for you to buy an iPad and stand. Go to thereceptionist.com/privatepractice and sign up for a free 14-day