Ep. 16: MySQL, MariaDB, and AI – A conversation with Kaj Arnö

In 2007, I joined an open-source database company called MySQL AB. While I was at BioWare, I was part of the team that built the BioWare Community, which launched with the game Neverwinter Nights in July 2002. In a future episode or two, my friend and I will be delving into the nerdiest of stories around those times that even the most dedicated BioWare fans have likely not heard. But back to the story... During the process of building the community, we had to do many things that were new to the time. For the scale we were looking for, we had to use an open-source database called MySQL; in fact, we had to use an alpha version due to what we needed to do. Yes, we launched the Neverwinter Nights community—one of the most important things we as BioWare had done as a business—to millions of people on an alpha version of MySQL 4.0. I was hooked on this database software.

Many years later, as a BioWare staff member now helping to run a very highly-trafficked database, I attended the MySQL conference in Santa Clara, California, to see if I could learn a thing or two. There I met the CEO of MySQL AB, Mårten Mickos, and I had this unshakeable feeling that I just had to be part of this open-source database story. I scoured their job listings, and they were looking for a web programmer working with Jeff Wiss and the MySQL Marketing team. To many people, this seemed a step down from where I was going at BioWare. For me, it was a chance to learn about a totally different type of business. I had no idea then how life-changing that decision really was. My career as a web programmer lasted all of a year before I joined Kaj Arnö's team at MySQL to become the technical community manager for North America, working for Giuseppe Maxia.

My first company meeting with MySQL AB was quite different from anything I had witnessed up to this point. I really didn't know Nordic, let alone Finnish culture. The CEO, Mårten, finished that very frank and open meeting with a shot of vodka. I followed along remotely in Montreal, using the MySQL shot glass I had been gifted as part of joining the team. When Sun Microsystems bought MySQL AB for the then-astronomical sum of 1 billion dollars in 2008, Kaj, Monty, Mårten, Zack, and others led the company in a rousing Finnish drinking song called "Helan Går."

This is my first-ever two-part episode. It is a wide-ranging conversation with my now-dear friend Kaj Arnö while visiting him at his home in Nagu, Finland, in the Finnish Archipelago south of the town of Turku (also known in Swedish as Åbo). The interview was recorded while walking near Kaj's house in Nagu with his young son. It was a bit windy, so please pardon the various noises of us playing football and frisbee on a windy archipelago day.

[Listen] In true MySQL tradition, let's start with Kaj doing "Helan Går" in his kitchen.

A Conversation in Nagu: Kaj Arnö on MySQL, MariaDB, and the Dawn of AI

Dups: Kaj, you are my former colleague, my former boss even. We have been partners in building software and friends for a very long time. In fact, you are one of the prime reasons I moved to Finland. So here we are, walking down a lovely country road in Nagu, having a conversation. Tell me a little bit about yourself and how we met, because it all started with a database called MySQL.

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Kaj: Yes. First of all, I have to tell you how I ended up in Nagu, and that's because of genetics. Lots of my ancestors come from here. I hadn't been in Nagu more than a couple of times until I was seven years old, when my father's aunt died and we inherited her place. I've been here every summer for more than 50 years. I think it is sort of the center of the universe in many respects, and that's why you and I ended up here right now.

But how did we end up working together? That's MySQL, or some people pronounce it My-S-Q-L. At that point in time, it was the biggest open-source database and, by a couple of measures, still is.

Dups: What is MySQL, and why did it change the world?

Kaj: MySQL is a database. If you look at what is needed in IT, the most fundamental thing is the operating system, which makes the computer work at all. But the second most important thing is how you store things. Where do you store not just your written documents, but all of your data in a structured form? That predates any of the open-source databases; we've had databases since computers were invented. But applying open-source logic to databases—that's what created MySQL. It addressed the second biggest domain in IT, and MySQL was and still is the key database in that realm.

Dups: At the time I joined MySQL in 2007, it was already a very successful company. One of the attributions to that success is that it was the foundation for something called Google.

Kaj: And I believe something called Facebook.

Dups: Oh, yes. Something called LinkedIn.

Kaj: Yes.

Dups: And I think at that time, something called Twitter. It's called something else now.

Kaj: Yes, it was the foundation for about 18 out of the 20 biggest websites at the time.

Dups: Do you think that all those services we became so enamored with probably wouldn't have happened if they had to pay for a database from someone like Microsoft or Oracle?

Kaj: It most definitely would not have happened without an open-source database. You can, of course, ask, "Is it all thanks to MySQL?" And I would say no. It's about the timing. MySQL happened at the right point in time, and if MySQL hadn't been there, then a year later something else would have filled that spot in a slightly different way.

MySQL filled it in its own particular way, which is based on the pragmatism of a database that does the basic things right. Stability, performance, and ease of use were the keywords. Other databases have other criteria, but the web as we know it wouldn't have happened without open source.

Dups: But I seem to remember, if I recall correctly—and the founders were Monty Widenius and David Axmark...

Kaj: Yes, Monty and David.

Dups: The original MySQL was actually shareware. Was that not the case?

Kaj: You're right. In 1995, it wasn't yet formally open source, and the term "open source" wasn't really used at that point; it was more "free software." The point in time where they decided to go with a formal open-source license, the GPL version 2, and not shareware, was in the year 2000. So you're correct.

Dups: If I remember correctly, you have been friends with Monty and David for a long time.

Kaj: With Monty since the '70s and with David since the mid-'80s. So it's been a fairly long history.

Dups: And how has Nagu figured into that history?

Kaj: We have a common friend who has been arranging so-called midsummer parties here on Biskopsö in Nagu since 1989. Hence, all the people around MySQL come here very, very frequently. Also, the CEO of MySQL AB, Mårten Mickos, has had a place in Nagu since 1966 or so.

Dups: So, Nagu is almost central to the history of MySQL.

Kaj: It is, absolutely. And I think this is not just a figure of speech or a romanticization. It is also the culture that you have in the Nordics, where there are two concepts that are very conducive to open source. One of them is Allemansrätt and the other one is talkoot. Talkoot is more a Finnish word; Allemansrätt is more a Swedish word. Allemansrätt means "the right of everyman," where you can, here in Nagu, if you find a place you want to go with your kayak, you can go there. There's no need to ask for the permission of the landowner. Yes, it's privately owned, but part of this right is to land on an island and camp there. That, I think, has led to a focus on underlying societal needs as opposed to just selfish needs.

The Finnish word talkoot means that you help each other. Today, you're building your house. Okay, I help you. There's no financial compensation, but there's an implicit expectation that when I build my house, you help me.

Dups: You played many roles in the MySQL organization as it grew. What are some of the things that you did?

Kaj: I started by doing training because we realized at MySQL that you need people who know the product. Some users learn by themselves, but not everybody does. The organization at MySQL was, of course, an ad hoc one at first, where people would fulfill many roles. An engineer could sometimes answer support calls and sometimes develop the software. We didn't differentiate in the beginning between support engineers and developers, which is the most basic division of roles in any organization. Over the years, those roles became much more specific. My role was in the transitioning of an ad hoc organization to a mature one. I was VP of Engineerin