Handle with Care: Empathy at Work

Liesel Mertes
Handle with Care: Empathy at Work

It can be difficult to support coworkers as they go through hard times. Liesel Mertes cultivates empathy at work as guests share stories of how real-life struggle affected the workplace. Episodes close with actionable tips to make you a better manager, coworker, and friend.

  1. 13/10/2021

    Empathy and Connection for Start-ups: an interview with Selfless.ly

    - Joshua Driver And so it's always been confusing to me why startups don't think about their culture from day one. And because we spend so much of our wake time at work, especially on our stage and the positive vibes or feelings you get out of helping others or contributing to the betterment of your community or society or making a difference for somebody else is such an important experience I think everybody should have,   INTRO   Why aren’t we focusing on culture from Day 1?  Today, we look at building connection in the world of start-ups.  My guests are Josh Driver and Zach Rodenbarger from Selfless.ly.  They have a lot to say about how to build connection AND their technology platform is also a platform for companies to give back, so this is like a double-impact interview.    Zach and Josh’s origin story begins just before the pandemic, launching their platform with high hopes and ideals into a pretty brutal business environment.    They are talking about how they sustained connection, built their company, and expanded the scope of influence in the midst of the dual pressures of start-up life and a bruising global pandemic.  As a bit of a teaser, you will hear about the importance of taking a walk, how “hangry” can get in the way of communication, and why Nerf guns could be a good idea for your office culture.    Zach and Josh are both tech guys who are from the same Indiana town of Valparaiso.  The met in 2018, committed to the concept of building a platform where companies and individuals can give not just money but time and effort to support causes that matter.  The website describes the platform memorably:  “Selfless.ly is a unique company that was designed by selfless people to help the world become a better place.”     - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I'd love to hear from both of you. Why do you think that that is even an important conversation to be having? And how would you define empathy work to me.   - Zach Rodenbarger There's a few tangible examples.   That is Zach Rodenbarger, the COO of Selfless.ly   - Zach Rodenbarger Sometimes in our interactions, Josh will come in or I'll come in and we'll have something and go back and forth. And then one of us will say, do you need to go for a walk?   - Zach Rodenbarger And I was like.   - Zach Rodenbarger Yes, I need to go for a walk. I need a little fresh air, you. And maybe that's just because we've been at our computers for a couple of hours or longer and need to have take a pause and have a step back. And so we've had that over the year, especially when we're working hard and looking at new timelines and goals and things. And I know I've needed a walk or two here and there.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes We had other good practices. Sometimes it's a walk. I also find that sometimes it's a snack. I have you eaten recent links to a snack?   - Joshua Driver Yes. We've encountered the snack situation as well. Yes. Hunger is a thing so much.   And this is Josh Driver, fellow-hangry sufferer and the Founder of Selfless.ly   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes That was like one of my biggest learning curves early on in my marriage. I I used to think it was just Luke. It's totally both of us be like, Is this really a thing, or am I just really hungry right now? And you can't know until you're no longer hungry, like, you can't even find out.   - Zach Rodenbarger I think that's a good follow up on empathy. It's probably easier to see in other people. And then when do we take that step back and look at ourselves and actually admit that? And I think that is really helpful to business partnership or even as we continue to onboard new employees, you know, thinking through, how am I coming across to others?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes But also, do you put yourself in their shoes and how are they feeling and so kind of both well and hearing that it actually takes a foundation of some relationship and trust to be able to take someone suggestion to do something like, go for a walk. I can imagine that a less mature or self aware moments. Somebody being like, maybe even the way it could be delivered. Just go take a walk. Somebody being like, I don't need a walk. You need a walk? No, I'm just making a really good point.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes But to be able to be at a place where I imagine it takes some work get to that point.   - Zach Rodenbarger Absolutely.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes A lot of times I find with guests or people I get to work with those that really, like, are doing the work of promoting more human workplaces and more connection at work. There's an element that comes out of their own personal experience. So I would love to hear from both of you a time where meeting that connection and empathy at work was really important in your own personal story, so that could be giving it to someone or a time where you were like, I'm not. Okay. I need some support right now.   - Joshua Driver Yeah. I think when I left the startup space and went into a corporate job, I came into a workplace environment and culture that might have been a little hostile and toxic. Like, there is a big disconnect between the leadership and the teams and the mentality of you're lucky to have a job versus we're lucky to have you as an employee. I wasn't exactly realized yet. And I had noticed when I join the company in my role that there was a lot of hostile communication. People had segregated themselves on one side or another and coming into that since I had been startups for so long and been on the ground for creating that culture.   - Joshua Driver That was very new to me to be in the middle of this disconnect. And it taught me personally about how I want my next company to run and where I think we needed to head and be ego free and transparent and communicate in more of a we're all on the same level here. Like, don't view me as your boss. We're just jumping in together to fix an issue. And I think as far as feeling left out or where I really could have used some support was when my first full time job was as an EMT here, then wished hospital and going through some of the things for the first time and all the trauma there.   - Joshua Driver There's no debrief or support. I think it's better now than it was, but you kind of had to process and cope individually with some of the things that you would see. And so that was really difficult for me to overcome at times when you have to process seeing the such negative things at times.   - Joshua Driver Quite frankly, like volunteering someplace and getting the I feel like I'm making a positive difference outside of the trauma of emergency medicine was a big driving factor. A lot of my coworkers and stuff would turn to substance abuse and other things sometimes, but I was fortunate enough to have a good support system, whether it was my family or friend group to where if things were really getting rough, that somebody would jump in and say, hey, let's catch up or reconnect. And so I was lucky in that regard.   - Joshua Driver But a lot of first responders, unfortunately, don't have that type of network to help them with that.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Thank you for sharing that. And I imagine even as you talk about the importance of volunteering, that there's a through line to some of what you're currently doing.   - Joshua Driver Yeah.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Zach, how about for you?   - Zach Rodenbarger So for me, with thinking through empathy in my past experiences, we can look to even just in the early days of self asleep and thinking about, hey, we both took this leap to start something new. And then about six months later, COVID hits. And so how do we work through this time where everything just radically changed, where we just launched the company? We launched the company in January and February of 2020. And then a month later, radically different thinking through. How is my co founder feeling right now?   - Zach Rodenbarger How do I stay optimistic and pass that along to him and vice versa? We're both kind of feeling these challenges and seeing this real time, right that we had these ideas and projections and we're going to create group, volunteering outdoors, and we're going to invite people to these events and then that's not going to happen. And so how do we really think through and change that strategy? But also, how did I think through, you know, both of us leaving our corporate jobs to do this. And so losing that security and saying, okay, I understand that this is maybe something he's going through right now and the pressure he's going through.   - Zach Rodenbarger So how do I stay optimistic to then pass that along and vice versa? And that was really helpful during those times?   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Did you ever have days where you were both just like, really down in the dumps? It wasn't like one person could encourage the other. It was just both low, especially early on in that pandemic.   - Zach Rodenbarger For me, I think for the most part, one or the other would see that and feel that and maybe because we're both high empaths. So if Josh was down, I was like, I can't be or vice versa. He may have a different perspective, but I remember thinking that. And so even though it was a really tough day, this is what it's all about. And so I'll stay positive or vice versa. And he would look at me be like, this is when he needs to step up.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah,   - Joshua Driver I can't remember specifically when we had those times. But I remember even if we were going to be talking to a specific person turning in, saying, I don't have an inmate today to have this conversation. Do you mind just taking this on your own and doing that? I remember a few times where we had that discussion where if we're both feeling challenged, which is actual, we there. See, I think there were a few times where we might have

    51 min

  2. 29/09/2021

    Lead Like a Human: an interview with Adam Weber

    – Adam Weber One of the I think keys to genuine empathy is through consistent one on one and how you display empathy, like, structurally inside of an organization. So, for example, a one on one is that place where as a manager, you can create safety with your team and with your direct reports and create a vulnerable relationship where you really do know what's going on inside of their world in their life   INTRO Sometimes, when you hear from leaders, you are inundated with their success stories:  their key tips to making your life or company just as successful as theirs has been.  And the whole thing can kind of seem a little unattainable and aspirational.   Which is one of the things that I love about today’s interview with Adam Weber, the Senior Vice President for 15Five.  Adam is one of those highfliers whose work is marked by successes, whether that is leading HR professionals in HR Superstars or successfully growing and then selling Emplify as a co-founder.    But my conversation with Adam isn’t just a series of success stories.  He is going to tell you about moments where he was NOT his best self, where as a young founder under tons of stress, he created distance instead of connection…and what he learned from it.  Along with a lot of other great content.   Adam is a structure guy, so be ready for some really actionable suggestions.  Adam is also the author of “Lead Like a Human”. Great title!  He has a wife, two sons, and a dog named Poppy and he loves spending time in nature, camping, and bird-watching.  I hope you enjoy today’s conversation as much as I did.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Adam, I'm so glad to have you as a guest today. Welcome.   - Adam Weber It's good to be here. Liesel. Thank you so much.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yes. So a question that I oftentimes get in my work is defining what empathy looks like in the workplace. And I know that you're someone who has worked a lot professionally and written and thought about connection in the workplace. How would you define empathy at work? What does it look like?   - Adam Weber I think it work. Empathy at work, I think, is seeing your employees as whole people as their whole sales and just in recognizing that they have things that are moving in their life that are outside of work, they have aspects of things that work that are impacting them that maybe you're unaware of. And so just taking that holistic perspective of each person and the unique experience that they're having and translating that and how you relate to them.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Thank you for that. I have found as I work with different companies as I meet with individuals that oftentimes when people like get it, when they feel really resonant with the importance of empathy and connection in the workplace, it comes out of a place of personal experience. They've had some touch points with either needing empathy and care or being in the position of giving it in a way that was really impactful. I'd love for you to share a story of when you've either really needed care in the workplace or when it's been really important for you to give it.   - Adam Weber Yeah. I think I have two stories that come to mind. The first is maybe how early in my career I was able to practice empathy in a way that helped me see the value in it. I started in my career when I was 22 to 25. I was the pastor of a Church, and it's a story for a different day, but basically became the head pastor when I was 25, never given a sermon in my life. Wow. And was trying to support and was really the only staff person for two to 300 people and was trying to support them when in reality, like, I was just still really young myself.   - Adam Weber And I think through that experience, a lot of people opened up to me about their lives. And you got to be a part of some of those high moments, like weddings, but also you're very much in the midst of really, really difficult situations. And so during that season, I think I learned a lot about just the value of sitting with people through hard things. It was during that time that one of my very best friends had ALS and he passed away and over an 18 month period.   - Adam Weber But, you know, every Tuesday and Thursday, we sat together that entire time and have lunch together. And I think just being with him and watching him go through that experience was something that really built empathy with me. So that's may be on just like, the personal side of, like, really early. I got a little bit thrown into the fire of empathy and being just being with others.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. And I know that you have a second story, but I love it. Could I just interrupt you for a second? Because I'm struck with the dynamics of that story, something that I find myself facilitating a lot around is compassion, fatigue and talking. Or even Adam Grant use the term languishing recently. That sense of like, I don't know if I can give to anybody else because I feel so drained myself. You're young. You are responsible for the sole care of all of these people. I'm sure you have things going on in your own life.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You have this personal friend, so you're watching an emotional journey of watching him die. How were you finding equilibrium and places to be filled up for yourself so you could keep giving to others in a way that mattered?   - Adam Weber That is a great question. I think what's interesting about being 25 is at that time. I don't think I did it with a lot of intention. I think when I reflect back on that time, there was a lot of kind of giving on empty without making sure that I was in a place of health myself. And one of the things maybe later in my career, I have realized the value for myself is making sure that I'm giving. One of the things I've noticed for me is that I need solitude.   - Adam Weber I'm a person who naturally is drawn to other people and wants to be a part of their lives. And if I don't give myself space to restore and space to make sure I'm my whole complete self, I end up kind of crossing, twisting the wires of giving in a way that is healthy for myself. I wonder sometimes when I look back on that season, there's a natural part to that where I was just kind of being myself an inflow and giving in a way that's comfortable.   - Adam Weber And I think there's probably another part of it that was just a little needy that really was really empty and didn't have great pathways to and to kind of restore myself, too. Which is probably why at the end of that year transitioned away from it. You know, I don't think I was acting in a way the problem is sustainable in my own life. Actually.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Thank you for that vulnerability. And even as I look back in to what my body and my person seemingly had the capacity to just absorb and keep churning. In my twenties, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that was a lot that probably wasn't healthy, but there's a certain hubris to that stage of life where you think I can just keep going.   - Adam Weber Yeah, there's an infinite amount of energy and there's an altruism that's really beautiful, I think with, like, a willingness to, like, I can change the world, you know? And there is some truth to that. I think there's also some wisdom that maybe came a little later for me, too.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I interrupted your flow, though. You were telling the first personal story. I'd love to hear that second story that you had in your back pocket as well.   - Adam Weber Well, the second one, really, like, set in motion. I had a windy career for the first ten years, kind of going from pastor to academic advisor, entry level job, entry level job, entry level sales job. And then I kind of stumbled into doing a start up about a decade ago and starting it with my business partner, Santiago, who was a week out of College at the time. So I'm ten years into my career. I've got two kids and we start this start up. I have no experience at all.   - Adam Weber And immediately just the company just started to grow. And I went from kind of being a one person employee to having a team. And in the very beginning of that process, I felt so overwhelmed and I felt so stressed that I started to follow some of the negative patterns that I saw and managers that led me prior. And remember, there's a couple of specific moments, but where I just was not being myself and I was creating barriers between my employees, the people I was interviewing, I just wasn't leading in a way that was sustainable for me.   - Adam Weber I was trying to act in a way that I thought managers and leaders were supposed to act. And I think during that time, I just hit a bit of a breaking point, like, because of how hard startups are in general, I was like, I'm not going to be able to sustain this if I try to do it. Like, I think everybody else is supposed to lead.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And what was that looking like? I just love for you to flesh that out a little bit more. You were like, this is the way it should be done.   - Adam Weber And it looks like what I think it looked a little bit like the authoritarian, the kind of Industrial Revolution leader. The leading is a disconnected self where, like, I was one way at home. But then I'd show up to work. And just like, I wasn't that there would be, like, curtains or anger or there would be kind of, like, spouting off orders as opposed to, like, truly listening and collaborating like things like that. Or it would just be like, when you're interviewing someone instead of, like, coming up with your own way that you interview people that I was following, a guide, that when I would do it.   - Adam Weber I was like, this just doesn't feel like me.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Yeah. You're moving into uncharted territories. And I find that in my life and in those I work with, it's easy to work off of a

    52 min

  3. 25/08/2021

    To See It, Be It: an interview with Max Yoder

    - Max Yoder That divine middle is emotional liberation, where I can be compassionate and show compassion to an individual. But I do not need to carry whatever it is that they are feeling, right, not my responsibility to. And the thing about the thing that I think this is so important for me in my life is I think this was my biggest blocker, my biggest blocker to grow like something that I may have gone through my whole life and never addressed if it were not for something like Lessonly.   INTRO   When companies and individuals think about skilling-up in empathy and compassion, there are common questions that arise.  How can I take on the feelings of others without being crushed by them?  What do good boundaries look like?  How am I ever going to keep my people accountable to their actual work if I start being all touchy-feely with the.    My guest today touches on all of these questions and more.  There are many reasons why you should take the time to listen to Max Yoder:  he is erudite, well-read (see all of the books and authors he noted in the show notes), and he really cares about people.    He is also the co-founder of the continually growing learning platform, Lessonly.  Just last week, Lessonly made headlines in the tech world when they were acquired by Seismic.  And the last few years has been a series of success stories for the company.    Max is much more than an executive and a thinker, he is also a crafter of Lego art.    - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Is there anything that you found yourself giving time to in the pandemic, whether that's like a new pursuit or a hobby that you have particularly enjoyed?   - Max Yoder Yeah. I've given myself a lot more time to make art, and I tend to make art with Legos. I really appreciate this man named Joseph Albers, who was a teacher at Black Mountain College, right. During World War two, post World War II. And he created this series of things called Homage to a Square. And he really like color theory. So he would put basically squares inside one another. And he did about two0 of these over a series of 20 years, I think from his 60s to his 80s, if I recall correctly, so hugely inspired by somebody doing 2001 thing from their 60 to their 80s.   - Max Yoder And these squares, like I said, they're color theory. So he was trying different colors, and he said when I put a blue in the middle and I surround it with a red, that blue takes on a different cue, then it visually looks different than if I surround it with a lighter blue. Like what we put around to color changes the way we perceived that color.   - Max Yoder So during COVID, I started doing all of these squares, and they were these really great free flow activity where I could get a 16 by 16 Lego square.   - Max Yoder And I would create my own version of Joseph Albers Homage to a Square, all these different colors, and I have them all around my attic now. And it was just one of those things that I could do without thinking I sift through the Legos, I'd find the right color. I'd build these squares. It was not taxing, but it was rewarding.   - Max Yoder And so I think in general, what I learned to do during COVID was play and not have a goal. And in one way of doing that with art and just really, truly understand what playing is, because I think I spent a lot of my adult life and I think a lot of my adolescent life achieving instead of playing, and I think you can do both at the same time.   - Max Yoder But I don't think I was doing both. I think mostly achieving I love that.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, especially with the relentless pace of work in general, but especially accelerated as a result of the pandemic to actually have spaces of purposeful rest, whether that's like actual physical rest of sleeping or encompassing it with the mental release of play is something that I hear again and again as I work with different individuals, even as being really life giving. Yeah. I love that   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You also have welcomed, I think, a new little person into your home in the midst of the pandemic you find that that has having a child in the home has unleashed some different capacities in you as well?   - Max Yoder Oh, yeah. So my daughter Marnie, she's eleven months old yesterday and eleven months.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Happy eleven months, Marnie.   - Max Yoder Yeah, pretty special. Full name is Marina. When she was born, we didn't know she was gonna be a boy or a girl. She came out of my wife, and we had three names for girls, picked out three names for boys. Marina was the one that was clearly the winner. And then basically, as soon after that, we just started calling her money. So she came home and just changed our lives there's. Covid before Marnie and this COVID after Marnie and COVID after Marnie is excellent. You know, I think COVID before Marnie was really tough for a whole host of reasons, but when Marnie came, she brought this new life to our house, like literal new life.   - Max Yoder Right. And then just this vitality to just and I of seeing the world differently and being a dad and watching my wife be a mom. And now being a husband to a mother, like all these things are life changing. And I'm 33 years old this year, and I just sent myself shifting from this achievement mentality to more kind of focusing on now, what do I care about? Why do I care about it? And am I doing the things that I care about? And my family is something that I care about?   - Max Yoder Music is something that I care about reading or things that I care about. And the difference between that and achievement and Carl, you the psychiatrist, help me figure this all out is I'm not doing them to impress anybody or to get anybody's. Applause I'm doing them because I care about them. And if somebody doesn't care about them, that's okay by me. And somebody does care about them. That's okay by me. But I'm not doing it for anybody else. Right?   - Max Yoder And being with my daughter is just something that is really important to me because she just wants me to be there with her.   - Max Yoder She doesn't even need me to do anything. She just needs me to be watching her spending time with her. And it's just been really cool to over eleven months. Jess, who's a very calm woman, nurture Marni and love on Many. I think I call myself in a big way in front of Many. Many got her grandpa and her grandma, and then we have a woman named Gabs, who is a friend of ours and the caretaker of Mary three days a week. And all these people just are very calm personalities.   - Max Yoder And Marni has just been wrapped around with so much love and kind of calmness. And what I imagine is going to come from that is what has come from that, which she's very adventurous, like, she's not scared. She's vibrant, and I just feel really lucky because it's not that parents don't want to give that to their kids, right? I think it's just sometimes we just don't have the resources, don't have the time, we're overstressed, and we're in a fortunate position where that's not the case. And it is highly rewarding to see my daughter be that's exploring, creative, laughing kid.   - Max Yoder And I want that for everybody because it's a real gift. I.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Love that enjoyment of just her presence and watching her flourishing.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And something that you said kind of, like, particularly caught my attention, that I'm not thinking primarily of what I'm doing for her. I'm just being with her. I'm paying attention and the power of presence, which is its own segue into some of what we want to talk about today, which is empathy and connection in the workplace, because although it's not like a paternal relationship with those that you work with, I think there's this deeply human need to be seen and acknowledge, and I'd like to kick it off.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I know you're a leader that values cultivating this in your workplace. What is a personal story for you about why empathy and human connection really matter specifically in the workplace?   - Max Yoder Yeah. I think empathy allows me to feel as somebody, so it allows me to kind of sit in their shoes and do my best approximation of what's stressing them or what's bringing them joy, like, empathizing with their situation. And I think that's incredibly important to a certain degree. I think the place where I get the most juice is being compassionate. And I think I've learned to recognize feeling sympathy for somebody, understanding that they are going through pain, but not carrying that pain as my owner running those same circuits myself.   - Max Yoder This is something that Robert Sapolsky to a gentleman from Stanford has helped me understand. If I sit there and run the circuits all day long that somebody else is running and I get stressed with them, I wear myself out, but I can be compassionate and sympathetic to an individual. Like, if they're hurting, I can acknowledge that they're hurting, but I don't need to run the same circuits.   - Max Yoder So I think it's really important to be empathetic because it gives me a chance to kind of sit in something and understand. Oh, yeah, that does not feel good. But I can't run that circuit too much because I'll wear myself out. But I can run the compassion circuit a lot longer where I can see if somebody's in pain, even if they're yelling at me or they're frustrated with something that, you know, life is tough there in a difficult situation that you might describe as suffering. I might describe a suffering.   - Max Yoder And to be a calm presence in the face of that is a gift in and of itself. I might not have to do anything more than that. Then just be calm in front of them, not diminish or dilute. What they're saying also enhance what they're saying. Just be there as a calm presence that listen. And who does that take me? Has

    57 min

  4. 20/07/2021

    Human Skills Are Business Skills: an interview with Joe Staples

    - Joe Staples For anybody listening, you can learn empathy. It's not something that somebody should go. You know, I'm not an empathetic. So I'm just going to stay the way I am.   INTRO   Human skills ARE business skills.  You cannot create lasting, high-performing teams without paying attention to and caring for the actual humans on your team.   This is something that my guest, Joe Staples, has seen again and again in his years of work.  We are going to talk about tips and tactics to build connection (hint:  nothing brings people together like food), how walking a mile, literally, in someone else’s role can build empathy, and why a group softball game was one of Joe’s biggest misses in team building.  You will hear stories of high school bullies and reflections on the changing expectations of generations in the workplace.  All in all, it is just one fine episode full of wisdom.    Let me begin with a little bit more about my guest, Joe Staples.  Joe is a senior B2B marketing executive who advises companies around go-to-market strategy and activities. He has spent decades in the business and developed expertise in building a powerful, differentiated brand and generating demand.  Joe is also the author or coauthor of numerous articles on leadership, customer experience, marketing, branding, employee engagement and work management. His work has been featured in all sorts of publications from Ad Age to Digital Marketing Magazine.   Joe lives out in Salt Lake City, where he gets to spend time not just working but enjoying the great outdoors.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes What are some of your favorite things that you get to do out in Salt Lake City?   - Joe Staples You know, we have we have a large family and so we're constantly going to parks going up in the mountains. We have we have a cabin that's kind of our getaway place. And, you know, we just we like the outdoors. The interesting one of the most interesting things about Utah is you can you can golf in the in the morning and ski in the afternoon if you hit the time of year just right. And we're 20 minutes from the closest ski resort.   - Joe Staples So a lot to do.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes You can you can just have a whole day of recreation at your fingertips.   - Joe Staples Right. And when you when you think of small grandchildren, it doesn't take much to entertain them, give you like some rocks and potato bugs. And there's that   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes That's that is true. I feel like in my own family, I have four. I was going to say young children, but the eldest is now 13, so they're getting less young with each passing year. But we know 13 down to seven. And as you mentioned, the cabin, we did well.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes We still do a fair amount of camping. And it's amazing when you strip away some of the electronics and iPads and all the interactive toys that are so dazzling. How really entertaining a good puzzle, a little bit of mud and a pile of sticks can really be.   - Joe Staples That's exactly right. I agree completely. You know, the other thing for me, so getting to our cabin, you go through what's called the Heber Valley, which is this little old farming community, and then you go up into the mountains. And as I come down into that valley, I could physically feel the stress just kind of fall off of my shoulders. And I forget about everything that's good.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes There's a there's a particular power about familiar land, just that you revisit again and again. And I can think even this weekend we're going down to Bloomington, which was a meaningful place for me. I did graduate work down there. I gave birth to a young daughter who died shortly afterwards. But there was a lot of emotion that's tied up in that time. And there's a particular trail that I I ran and walked a lot during those years. And then I always make a point to come back to.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And there's something too I like I can feel it in my spirit, in my body of the familiar trees and bend in the path and the invitation that ushers me into to be tied to a story that's bigger than me to think like some of these trees, you know, they they came before me. They will outlast me. They're being sustained in much the same way that I am. And I I can hear that a little bit in your statement, like the the familiar land that evokes something in you as you're able to go to it.   - Joe Staples Yeah. Those things I think they build us. They they. They. Help us become who we are.   - Joe Staples We have pictures of my wife standing on the spot with nothing but trees and then a hole in the ground and then framing and then being all done. So, yeah, it's been it's been great. And then the other we do a family reunion there every year with all of our kids and grandkids. So those kind of memories just are important, as beautiful.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I would love for you to tell me a little bit about what your current role is in the work that you do.   - Joe Staples Yeah. So it's changed pretty dramatically in the last year. So I was a CMO, a chief marketing officer for the last 20 plus years. My career was all in the tech sector and now I spend all of my time advising other companies on their go to market strategy. And those companies range from little startups that are trying to figure out how to get to market and what their product should look like and how to message and position it to companies that have multibillion dollar valuations that are trying to better understand their brand and what they do.   - Joe Staples The thing that I like so much about it is that the work is super diverse. You know, I go from company to company and engage in these projects and to meet new people and see the struggles that they're going through and try and take the experiences that I've had and help them navigate where they're going well.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And what a two decade span to be in tech. There have been so many reinventions innovations and disruptive technologies within that space over the years that you've been working there. I'm sure that that has contributed to a really diverse toolkit of experiences at which to draw.   - Joe Staples Yeah, technology has changed dramatically, as you mentioned, but marketing has changed dramatically over that time. The way you approach and engage with customers or prospects is just night and day. Different than what it was twenty or twenty five years ago, and so the need to adapt to those things is is critical but also fun because there's there's always new things to learn.   One thing I really like to ask guests is when we talk about empathy and connection at work, what is a personal story for you that emphasizes the importance of empathy and connection specifically in the workplace?   - Joe Staples So I think, Liesel, I think as you think about all of this, it's important to recognize that the workplace isn't separate from our personal life, that those two are just intertwined and inseparable. And so, as I think about empathy, I think I learned that from my son, from one of our kids. We lived in Seattle for a number of years. And this particular son, I think, got picked on every single day that he went to junior high school.   - Joe Staples And, you know, it was not super evident as he went through it. But I think it was it certainly was impactful. And then we moved to Utah and he flourished here, you know, just found the right friends and and all of those kinds of things. But while he was he was probably a senior in high school. My wife and I met a woman who her grandson went to the same school as our son and. The things she told us is she said that her grandson told her that she could go, that he could go three weeks at school without a single person ever saying hello to him, engaging with them, talking to him.   - Joe Staples And she said, but the grandson told her that the one person that he always knew, if he passed in the hall or saw in a class that would say hello to him was our son. And, you know, I I thought about that and I thought, you know, what would our son have to have developed that that trait or understood that need if he wouldn't have gone through the challenges that he did earlier in junior high and and high school.   - Joe Staples But I also thought, you know, I'd take that over him being the star of the basketball team any day if he would develop that kind of character. So it was a really important lesson for me of the need to kind of look out for the the team member or the person that that may be struggling. But then obviously empathy expands well beyond someone who's struggling and really is just do you take an interest in other people to make connections with other people or are you just looking out for yourself and what will benefit you?   - Joe Staples And I think those distinctions are really, really important.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I love that story. Thank you for sharing that. If I could, I could feel a little bit of a catch in my throat, even as you said, because I one of my children, I have a son who is just on the precipice of middle school and has had a hard year with those dynamics of old school is rough. It is rough.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I feel when you said, like it's important to note that our work selves and our personal selves are there, not divisible. What I have observed is that that awareness signals a change in the workplace from when my parents probably were working or definitely my grandparents, where there is a sense of, you know, this is your home life, this is your work life, you really need to shut off that part of yourself in order to show up and get the job done.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Does that resonate with you? Do you feel like you have seen some of that movement in your lifetime of work in what is expected in a given office as to what you

    47 min

  5. 06/07/2021

    An Awakening: Embodied Empathy for Leaders

    - Tegan Trovato There's an awakening happening in corporations and people are now choosing their jobs based on values. And that will force organizations who aren't already inclined to that thinking to really start rethinking their approach to caring for their people and the beautiful thing.   NEW INTRO   Today, we talk about the awakening that is happening in the workforce as a result of COVID, change, and choice.  How workers are choosing jobs based on values and what top leaders are doing to welcome and nurture the whole person at work.    And I am excited to have both a colleague and a friend on the show as a guest:  Tegan Trovato is the Founder of Bright Arrow, a premiere Executive and Team Coaching firm supporting clients nationally.   Tegan is an HR industry veteran specializing in Talent Acquisition, Talent Development, and Organizational Learning. She has served as an executive or leadership team member for companies like Levi Strauss, Zynga, Xerox and Cielo.   At Bright Arrow, she and her team offer executive coaching, leadership team coaching, and group workshops. All of Bright Arrow’s coaches value authenticity, confidence, courage, growth, and leadership and make these values a priority in every interaction.   Tegan is also the is wife to Brian (a fellow entrepreneur), mommy to Athena (who is really, really bute), and mom to her two fur babies - senior kitties Pascal and Dedier (pronounced D.D.A).   She loves nature and we began our conversation hearing about her recent break from work here in the Indiana summer.      - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I would love to hear some of your favorite things that you've gotten a chance to do on your staycation so far.   - Tegan Trovato Oh, you know, just being outside and my husband and Athena and I all being together as a family is everything, because with the pandemic, we still don't have child care yet. We do have someone starting soon. But we've just been like ships passing in the night, just handing Athena off for for one of us, one entrepreneur to have a meeting and the other one goes and takes care of her and then we switch off again throughout the day.   - Tegan Trovato So just being together has been and I don't even know what the word is, heart filling.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Have you have you gotten a chance to eat some good food? Are you finding your being outside a lot? It's been raining and muggy that you know,   - Tegan Trovato That doesn't stop us. I'm from the South, from the real South where it is always rainy and muggy and we just go do your thing anyway. So, no, that hasn't stopped us. And there's been enough breaks in the rain and we've spent a ton of time. Yeah. Walking on the trail and jogging and setting up the little kiddie pool outside for her.   - Tegan Trovato So, yeah, that's been that's part of what nourishes me is being outside and and yes. Eating healthy food. So we always eat relatively healthy, but we've been doing a little more of the salads because we've had time and all that good stuff so.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes Well, and who wants to be slaving over their oven or stovetop too much in the high heat of summer? The salad is a great option.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes One of the things I would love to talk with you about is how you've seen the need for empathy grow and change specifically over the last year and a half within your coaching practice. Give us a little bit of a 10000 foot view of what your typical client looks like.   - Tegan Trovato Hmm. Thank you for asking that. It does help set the stage a little bit for who is seeing what inside of the businesses and from where they're seeing this all unfold. Right. So the clients that we typically work with at Right Arrow are executives. So VPs and above inside the organization, they tend to be very driven, pretty holistic leaders, meaning they do want for their employees to feel good and be healthy and often at their own peril. Right.   - Tegan Trovato So they're not often not taking care of themselves and trying to pour out for others. The organizations they work for tend to be in either hypergrowth or undergoing major change.   - Tegan Trovato And that's often why we're brought in is to act as a support mechanism. And sometimes when it's a hypergrowth situation to help the leaders stay on track with the organization's growth so that as the leaders that got the company to where it is, they may also be the leaders that get them to the next growth level.   - Tegan Trovato Right. Everyone has to grow in tandem with the organization itself. So so we tend to be working with leaders that have been working really hard already. And now with the pandemic, it just folded in multiple other layers.   - Tegan Trovato On top of that,   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes What is the biggest change that you experienced in in the presenting needs of your average client as a result of COVID? And granted, like every one story is not every story, but is there a common thread that runs through?   - Tegan Trovato There is a common thread. There's a few common threads that run through. And I have a lot of thoughts on this. So don't make me wonder too, too far afield. But there's a few things that come to mind when you ask that question. I think, one, the first thing we're seeing is that everything that existed before the pandemic was magnified. Right. So anything that was already a little out of balance was certainly out of balance during the pandemic.   - Tegan Trovato And so that's a major change we saw in some of those things are not having great boundaries when working at home. You know, we worked with a lot of leadership teams that were already distributed across the U.S. and working from home.   - Tegan Trovato So that became magnified, not having great access or balance when it comes to time with family because they're feeling overstretched at work. That became magnified.   - Tegan Trovato What is newer is the need for attentiveness to the humanness of the employee population, so great leaders already had some sense of wanting to care for their people.   - Tegan Trovato And I would say that characterizes the leaders we work with. What changed, though, is that we we entered into this collective suffering together during the pandemic.   - Tegan Trovato So we went from as leaders needing to care for people in pockets of intensity, right, so an employee's parent may pass away or their child, you know, an employee's child might be struggling with something at home and a leader could offer up a little extra care in those times. What changed during the pandemic is that the leaders themselves were suffering in tandem with their employee population and suffering, meaning we're not sure how to balance everything.   - Tegan Trovato We're not sure if it's safe to go out in public, to go to work, to vaccinate our children, to not vaccinate don't vaccinate ourselves, to not vaccinate ourselves. Right. I mean, you name it, that list is so extensive.   - Tegan Trovato And in the meantime, also trying to a lot of employees and leaders trying to manage their children's schooling while also working and selling and managing new product launches. I mean, it was just exponentially difficult. And so that led to suffering.   - Tegan Trovato It's leading to exhaustion. And so I think that it's while it's tough that everyone was sort of suffering together, it has also created this really amazing opportunity to feel more connected than ever before because we share that suffering.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes I appreciate the emphasis on the opportunity for connection that is possible, because I think sometimes when we talk about providing support for the humanness of the workplace for a certain type of leader or manager, that feels like one more ask. Like, I can't believe that you're asking me to have to do that to, you know, to be somebody is like there's all sorts of ways that derisive sentiment can be expressed, like to be somebody's counselor or their nursemaid or their mom.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes It can be couched very much in the negative. What is this going to take from me or for me, instead of seeing it as really such a deep potential for connection and trust and the, you know, trust, vulnerability, connection, that's the foundation for creativity, for innovation, for thriving cultures that people don't want to leave.   - Liesel Mindrebo Mertes And if we're only experiencing that moment as a pain point, it's going to cause us to want to, like, hold back, you know, not fully engage instead of be like, no, this is these are the deep waters that lead to all that good stuff that we want to write about in our Harvard business reviews.   - Tegan Trovato That's right. Well, you know, a colleague of mine, Sarah Martin of Welcoa, that's their organization, helps to create workplace wellness. So they work with companies of all sizes to create wellness programming, essentially, and whole employees. She and I were talking the other day and she said, you know, what is about to happen? And most of their clients know this. What's about to happen is that the future workforce over the next year plus is going to ask during their interview process, what did you do during the pandemic to take care of your employees?   - Tegan Trovato Mm hmm. It's now going to be a screening question, right. For, you know, do I even want to work here?   - Tegan Trovato So to your point, there used to be an option. I think it used to feel much more optional for leaders to say, OK, that's too far. I don't want to have to do that much caring or that being that concerned with someone's personal well-being. I think that it became less of an option through the pandemic.   - Tegan Trovato And now the question is how optional do we want to make it again when we go back to sort of business as usual air quotes. Right, right. So we're in a

    45 min

  6. 22/06/2021

    The Pulse of Your People: Optimizing Workplace Support During Crisis and COVID

    Nick Smarrelli But at the end of it, you know, you can't be listening to the reality. It can't be you can't be talking about how fantastic things are when things don't feel fantastic because then you lose all credibility and that's what people want. I think in leadership these days.   I can get really snarky when technology is not working well for me…just ask my family.  Chromecast under functioning, the link refusing to load.  All of it can seem like a lot.  But the biggest frustrations come when the technology that I need for work isn’t WORKING.  So, when I call the support desk, I am bringing a lot to that interaction.    My guest today is Nick Smarelli, he is the CEO of GadellNet Consulting and a big part of what his team does is troubleshoot those complex, frustrating tech calls.  Nick is talking today about how he keeps his staff engaged, supporting their well-being in the midst of a pandemic, giving them what they need so they can give the customers what they need.    Nick is open, insightful, and has great tips for anyone who is leading through a time of crisis and I anticipate that you will get as much out of the interaction as I did!   First, a little bit more about Nick.  Nick joined GadellNet in 2010 after working with Ingersoll Rand.  He studied psychology and finance as an undergrad and, I love this line from his bio, “Nick views all business decisions from the lens of blending both humanity and fiscal responsibility to achieve incredible outcomes.”  And I think you will hear that impulse in his interview.    GadellNet grew over his 10 tenure, from 4 employees to 150 across three states.  GadellNet has also earned honors as an Inc. “Best Places to Work”.   Nick is an ultramarathon runner, a father of three, a spouse of over 12 years, and an avid supporter of the community.  Nick has a podcast, “Zero Excuses”, where I had the pleasure of being a recent guest, where he speaks to guests on the power of the human potential – and how to live a self-accountable life.  He is currently pursuing his Masters Degree in Industrial Organizational Psychology from Harvard University.   We began our conversation talking about early morning workouts.  Nick is often up in the wee hours of the morning to exercise or to get work done, which feel slike a necessity at this stage of life as he is also a parent and a husband.    Liesel Mertes I was I was a rower in college. I was on the crew team. So I'm no stranger to like the four. Forty five am waiting approval.   - Nick Smarrelli I'm getting up in the morning.   - Liesel Mertes Yeah. Were you always a morning person or did you come to that with your like athletic pursuits.   - Nick Smarrelli I would say I am never been a morning person. I, I don't know if I am right now. Frankly it is not, it is not my default by any stretch. But I think by virtue of athletic pursuits, work commitments, usually speaking, there's just a lot of work to process and I find mornings to be really solid for that. It's again, after having kids, that is my lone moments of reasonably energized solitude. You know, certainly the kids go to bed, but by the time bedtime happens, I'm spent.   - Nick Smarrelli I'm not enjoying that moment. So carving out that morning space has given me a little bit of of time to have and be, I would say, selfish. That's my selfish time. That's my how. Take care of my body. Take care of my mind. Take care of a little bit of work so that when the kids wake up and my wife wakes up, I'm in a place and they're going to get the best of forty five minutes of me before the cycle starts again with, with kind of a normal workday.   - Nick Smarrelli So that's, that's really where I use that selfish time because I feel like the rest of the day is kind of committed to your pursuits outside of just myself.   - Liesel Mertes Totally. Well and I like that turn of phrase and the differentiation between energized versus depleted solitude, because I deeply resonate with that as a parent at this stage of life. Like by the time I'm finally alone and everybody is mostly in bed, although they're never completely in bed, there's always like that bouncy nap. Right. You know, they've had an epiphany or, you know, they want me to look at some bumpe. It's it's not the same as a morning solitude.   - Liesel Mertes I am. I saw something on your website that I would like to ask about, and it specifically leads into. Caring for people at work, creating culture of care.   - Liesel Mertes All right, that's helpful for me. I didn't want to do with it on my first attempt at.   - Liesel Mertes I saw on the GadellNet Consulting website, you talk about your 98 percent happiness score with clients, tell me a little bit more about that and then I want to dig deeper into that number.   - Nick Smarrelli Yes, well, I yeah, certainly, let's talk about that and a big part of our culture, at GadellNet, that is a lot of, I would say, bilateral feedback. So it's we we adore seeking and identifying feedback. So we always I always feel like every time we bring on a new employee, they're overwhelmed by the number of channels by which we get feedback from our clients, from our teams, from our from our leaders. You know, we love feedback.   - Nick Smarrelli I think it gives and informs us quite a bit in terms of our strategic decision making. But one of the big things that we implemented was just kind of a casual survey at the end of every single engagement that we have with a client of ours. So we are a 50 percent of the business is a 24/7 help desk. So at the end of the day, what we are supporting is somebody who walks in the door, expects things to work.   - Nick Smarrelli Things are not working that day. Oftentimes they are, let's say, a controller. They've got a big meeting with the CFO excels networking. So now you've got a lot of emotion that comes into it and they're calling in and they're seeking our help. So we talk all the time, endlessly, frankly, that our jobs are kind of half therapists have IT professionals. So we really kind of try to frame out this idea of kind of client satisfaction, client happiness, because we we really try to kind of throw an emotion at it, because at the end of the day, really what we're doing is dealing with angry people who are frustrated by the system.   - Nick Smarrelli And as a business leader, it is hard to keep people motivated to do that day in and day out. I sympathize with our front line team sometimes with kind of where their responsibilities are because everybody is frustrated. So the we really try to kind of put a focus on that experience that at the end of the day, in a 20 minute engagement that you have with that person there, just a little bit a little bit better, we kind of do it akin to there's a rock in your shoe, we take the rock out.   - Nick Smarrelli So we really kind of focus on metrics that tie back to an emotion because we believe that that's the end of the day. We're keeping systems running. But we're we're we've got to acknowledge that that person comes with a whole load of baggage and emotions to that phone call as well.   - Liesel Mertes Well, I love that awareness of the whole person that you're interacting with. And it makes me wonder, just in an informal sense, I mean, I picture the last year has been hard, complicated. There's quarantine, there's people schooling at home, there's relatives getting sick and the tolerance level for anything going wrong on the system side, I imagine being even lower than is already low bar. Have you have you people felt that on the other side of calls or chat interactions like just a higher intensity of anger or despair or all of the emotions of the people they serve?   - Nick Smarrelli You're this question is so incredibly relevant. It's painful. So I'll take two steps back and I promise I'll answer your question. But sure. You know, March 2020, obviously, everyone's going in lockdown. You know, the team is getting to X, the number of phone calls, everybody. They're dealing with their own personal crisis. And now they're also dealing with every fifteen thousand clients that are moving back to their homes or to their homes to work indefinitely.   - Nick Smarrelli Our job at that point is can be tied back to in some capacity saving lives. At the time, you didn't know how contagious this was. We didn't know what it was. But at the end of the day, we are creating space for people to continue to operate, to continue to keep their jobs and to keep themselves safe. Fast forward March 2021 and now really, but it really kind of came back really March 2021 and people are starting to come back.   - Nick Smarrelli We're in this kind of weird purgatory zone. Some people are being forced back to the office when most of them don't want to go back to the office. Most businesses have stopped hiring in that 12 month period and now the economy is ramping up. So their workload is higher than it's ever been. Couple that now with you know, if you go on LinkedIn, go on Inc.com, you'll see kind of this this mass turnover that's happening seemingly across the board.   - Nick Smarrelli So people are stressed, they're anxious. They are. This is the last, I would say four weeks have been the most eye opening in terms of kind of our responsibility emotionally to honor the people calling in, because it is it is a different just a vibe now. And it's been it's been interesting as a leader, it's been interesting to receive the feedback, but I don't know what it was where we were fully locked down, that everyone is still feeling this like solidarity of we can do it.   - Nick Smarrelli And now I just feel like people are just completely spent and burnt out and have just have nothing left to give to the cause. And they're in some sort of like adrenal fatigue at this point. And it's it's manifesting itself every single day to our t

    40 min

  7. 08/06/2021

    We Are Humans First: Empathy and International Teams

    - Jorge Vargas And sometimes we forget that at work. We forget that in other scenarios. And at the end of the day, work is important and matters. But but it's work. And we are we're humans and we're people. And we were feelings and we're joy. We're sadness first. And that ends up having a huge influence and work at the end of the day and not recognizing that it's a little bit naive and dismissive of it makes us better workers if we actually are a little more self-aware about how we're feeling, our emotions in general.   NEW INTRO   Today’s conversation is wide-ranging.  We explore the importance of engaging with your own emotions, the absence of one-size-fits-all solutions to emotional and social health, and the particular challenges of empathetically managing multi-national teams.  I learned so much and I know that you will too.   My guest today is Jorge Alejandro Vargas. He works at the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit that supports our favorite research tool, Wikipedia.  There, Jorge leads Regional Partnerships, engaging with teams across the planet to leverage both private and public sector partnerships.    Jorge calls San Francisco home.  He moved here seven and a half years ago from Bogota, Colombia where he was born, educated, and worked as a lawyer specializing in Intellectual Property and Copyrights.    He recently moved to the Lower Height neighborhood from the Mission.    - Jorge Vargas I love walking around the city, a good friend and colleague said the San Francisco is a collection of neighborhoods rather than a single city, and each neighborhood has its own vibe and its own thing. And walking around is really nice. I also enjoy tennis a lot, so I try to fit a game of tennis at least once a week. Not that I'm very good at it, but I am trying my best to get that time out in the tennis court.   And as we ease into our conversation, perhaps there are some listeners that will remember the evolution of Wikipedia with me.  I remember when Wikipedia was looked down upon.  I was DEFINITELY never, ever allowed to use it as a source in high school or college.  But somehow, over the years, we have all come to rely upon the shared knowledge that the platform represents.    - Liesel Mertes Even the turn of phrase, it's almost like like Kleenex, like you Wikipedia something, because that's where you would go for trusted information. And even as my children use it, how much of a go to resource, which as it relates to your work, I feel like, you know, just in the span of my adulthood, I've seen readership grow, you know, participation, access. And it sounds like that sort of movement of building acceptance, you know, getting stakeholders together is what you're doing in these regional partnerships in a way to continue like moving there.   - Liesel Mertes The influence and the participation of Wikimedia and Wikipedia is that is that like an accurate enough summation of some of the things that you're doing? I realize there's probably way more to it than that.   - Jorge Vargas One hundred percent. And I think that it's been very interesting that so this year we're celebrating our 20th anniversary, actually.   - Liesel Mertes Happy 20th.   - Jorge Vargas Thank you very much. And it's been 20 years human and we call that. And that's kind like the the tag that we've been using for this big milestone of a birthday, because we really acknowledge the fact that Wikipedia is built by humans. It's because of hundreds of thousands of volunteers around the world that we have what we work with. They are volunteers. And the movement as a whole, as we call it, is the fuel and the magic that actually keeps Wikipedia alive with a foundation.   - Jorge Vargas What I do and the partnerships team as a whole tries to do is support that mission that is highly built by all those volunteers in the world and work with those partners that want to help us in many different ways further that mission and pretty much reach that vision that we have as a movement of imagining a world in which every single human being has access to the sum of all knowledge, which is an ambitious statement. It's a very bold move, but at the same time, that's what we want to do.   - Jorge Vargas But to do that, the only way is to work with others, and that is the whole spirit and DNA of the partnership's team and the work that we do.   - Liesel Mertes And what I hear in that is at its best, you know, Wikipedia is democratizing the the spread of knowledge, you know, with the with its kind of participatory platform. And yet still fact checking that people are able to do and getting voices from different sectors and different cultures and languages is so important in that continued growth of that mission.   - Jorge Vargas That is absolutely right. I think that what Wikipedia has done in the last ten years has disrupted the parroting. That knowledge should sit with with a few group, with a group of few folks. I would say I remember growing up with the concept that knowledge and information was trapped in this few books that we held with pride in the living room as the encyclopedia that we should look at as the source of trust. The knowledge and Wikipedia, although sounds on paper, is a crazy idea.   - Jorge Vargas Twenty years later, as finding ways to show that knowledge can be shared and can be produced by many people and really democratizing the notion that we all can be experts as long as we follow certain editorial guidelines that the encyclopedia relies on, as long as we are doing the homework. I would say in actually producing information in a way that is accurate, verifiable, neutral, and where consensus can be reached to make that part of the encyclopedia. So it's fascinating.   - Liesel Mertes You talked about managing teams across countries and I want to hear more about that, especially with what's gone on over the last year.   - Liesel Mertes One of the things that we really love to talk about on this podcast is how to build empathy and connection at work. And oftentimes that is something that is seen as not really having space in the workplace.   - Liesel Mertes What comes to mind when you think of within your personal experience, a story of a time when you really experienced the impact of either experiencing empathy at work or experiencing a lack of it in a way that made an impression on you.   - Jorge Vargas Thank you so much for that question. Does it bring some triggers, a lot of the positivity and like the things that I love about the work and specifically about my team. So the partnerships team and specifically the regional partnerships team is focused on, as I mentioned earlier, expanding and bringing ways to create more awareness and increase readership in particular parts of the world. And in order to do that, we needed to hire folks that are living in those parts of the world.   - Jorge Vargas So we have a regional manager for Latin America who in Colombia, someone who is in Indonesia, someone who's in India, someone is in Ghana, someone who was in Jordan recently relocated to to the U.S. So that brought me for I want to say the first time. The feeling of having to work on the same topic, on the same thing with five or six completely different people that came from completely different backgrounds, contexts, languages, time zones. And one of the big things where I realize that empathy was needed was the fact that we were just sitting in completely different parts of the world.   - Jorge Vargas And that meant that maybe someone was going to be having lunch or dinner while the other person was trying to feed them and have a conversation with them. Or maybe someone was in the middle of child care when the other person was actually in the middle of what they thought was an important meeting. So definitely trying to break that construct that we continue to see and that maybe the pandemic has a silver lining left or is leaving of not centralizing everything of where the place of work is physically located, the headquarters of the Wikimedia Foundation or in San Francisco.   - Liesel Mertes Can you unpack that a little bit more? Because I think it's a very interesting point. What does so paint a picture for us? What does it look like for you to be checking in with yourself in a way that makes you a better manager as you think about what you're about to ask of, you know, a partner or a teammate?   - Jorge Vargas I think that for me, the first thing to I check in with myself is trying to think where the other person is. And by that I mean not just geographically or the times in which they are, but like try to understand maybe where that person is in their life. At that moment, particularly the last year and a half, has shown us that. Work and life, for better or for worse, or the day to day life are completely together, like it's very hard to separate, particularly when we're working from home.   - Jorge Vargas We know that we may have kids in the background. We may have like the mail come in. We may have someone that is needing something from somebody else and requires attention. And for me before this and when I used to work back in Columbia or when I started working for the foundation, I never thought of that. I was just like, well, working like it's just work, which like think of this thing that we need to do, period, no matter what.   - Jorge Vargas Now, I think that being more self aware. Sorry, more self aware about. Where the person is, is it late for them this morning for them. What happens if I sent them right now a ping that I need to talk to someone? And I make the assumption that even though it's late for them, they're probably awake or maybe they are awake, but they shouldn't be responding, but they're under the pressure to do so. So it's really checking in and being like, OK, where is the other person?   - Liesel Mertes Right, that's so goo

    52 min

  8. 25/05/2021

    How to Mainstream Mindfulness and Operationalize Compassion

    This is the Handle with Care:  Empathy at Work podcast.  I’m your host, Liesel Mindrebo Mertes helping you build a culture of care and connection through empathy at work.    MUSICAL TRANSITION   Welcome to Season 2. Empathy matters.  It isn’t just some squishy personality trait, it is a set of skills and a capacity for connection that you can develop, if you have the desire.  And that is what season 2 is all about.  I am going to introduce you, in each episode, to a leader that is purposefully building connection and engagement at work.  They will share best practices, the ways that have grown and their occasional failures.    My guest today is Scott Shute.  Scott is the Head of Mindfulness and Compassion at LinkedIn, which is this great role that sits at the intersection of ancient wisdom traditions and a technology company.  He is also an avid photographer, a musician, and, most recently, a published author.  His book, “The Full Body Yes” launched in the middle of May.  His mission is to change work from the inside out by “mainstreaming mindfulness” and “operationalizing compassion.”   This was a deeply enriching conversation about how to build up mindfulness…and in a year of so many distractions, don’t we all need a little more attention and mindfulness?  And how to operationalize compassion, which is right up my alley.    We began talking about his book.  I got to read an advance copy and enjoyed a passage so much that I called my 13 year old daughter into the room one morning to read it aloud to her.  It was that spot-on.   Scott Shute I was saying what you just said about response is what has been typical, like what I'm not getting is I send the book to my friends and they're like, oh, hey, cool. Got your book. Thanks. Not getting that. What I'm getting is like, oh, my God, Chapter eight, like, we got to talk about this because blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And and there is at least one story in there for everyone that's been super meaningful and has moved the needle on their life just a little bit or something that resonated with just a little bit or a lot.   Scott Shute And so that's been super gratifying.   Liesel Mertes Absolutely. Well, and as someone who prizes the craft of storytelling, I enjoy just all the places that the full body. Yes. Took me from Japan to Kansas to dealing with bullying in your adolescent years and back again. So I enjoyed both the wisdom but also the delivery of it. And I I have some questions to ask about certain sections of the book. I can't wait to jump in.   Liesel Mertes What is your personal connection to why empathy matters and why it specifically matters in the workplace?   Scott Shute And thank you for that question and thanks for having me. It matters because we don't work in isolation. We work with others, we live with others. And so to me, empathy, I talk a lot about compassion and I'll separate the two a bit. So I define compassion, is having an awareness of others, a mindset of wishing the best for them, and then the courage to take action. And some people say that compassion is empathy plus action.   Scott Shute And so if you're talking about these first two pieces, it's first being aware of others and then having a mindset of wishing the best for them or a mindset of kindness. And why that's important in the workplace is, yeah, we don't work by ourselves. We work in teams. And what we've discovered, what science has shown us Project Aristotle at Google has shown us is the number one factor in creating a high performance team is, well, it's not their IQ, it's not what school they went to.   Scott Shute It's not even the level of diversity in technology or overall diversity. It's psychological safety. This ability to say, hey, can I can I be myself in front of you guys, can I can I fail in front of you and know that you have my back, but actually even harder? Can I succeed? Can I win in front of you and know that you have my back? So if we're on a sales team and I just made two hundred twenty percent a quarter with two weeks to go and my friends at eighty five percent of quarter, are they really going to help me out.   Scott Shute Are they going to look at me the same way. Am I going to look at them the same way. So this idea of empathy, this idea of being aware of others and having a mindset of wishing the best for them, really putting ourselves in their shoes builds powerful work environments where we end up being more creative. We end up with better solutions. We end up delivering something much better for our customers.   Liesel Mertes I love that. Just touching on the data points, some of the business case that's there, I'd like to dig a little deeper. Would you tell me about a time in your work experience where you think, man, I was not OK? I was really going through a hard time and this person's care, attention, what they did or said really made a difference and paint that picture for us.   Scott Shute Sure. Great question, I think for me, I'm trying to find a specific one, but for me it's that feeling of connection. I, I felt the sting of isolation in high school. You know, I had a really great junior high. Some people hate junior high. I loved junior high. But my first two years of high school were really painful or really hard. And they were, upon reflection, upon a lot of years of reflection.   Scott Shute I realize this because I felt isolated, that I felt loneliness, that I felt, you know, other than and I eventually ended up changing schools. And what was so great about finding a new school, as I found people that I connected with, people who enjoyed me for who I was. And this is the antidote to loneliness, this is the antidote to isolation and this being connection, and when we feel like we're connected to others. And so I've what I appreciate about your work is that, you know, a lot of stuff when we're going through it, it's about that isolation.   Scott Shute Sometimes it's about the isolation we feel about ourselves, like we don't feel good about ourselves. That inner critic, that obnoxious roommate in our mind is going crazy and we just feel gross. Sometimes it's feeling a disconnection from others. Sometimes that can be about performance, right? If I'm if things aren't going well, then it it comes back to feeling disconnected, feeling like, oh, well, are they going to throw me out of here? Am I going to lose my job?   Scott Shute And so anything that builds that connection, whether it's a manager's kind words or a cross-functional partners kind words or just having a friend at work that you can go take a walk around the block with or, you know, now assume call and and say everything you want to to. That is such a meaningful thing because it's like, oh, here, here it is. I can remember again what's really important and what's really important are these relationships. What's really important is feeling connected to myself, but also connected everything else   Liesel Mertes That that reminds me of a passage from your book, The Full Body Yes.   Liesel Mertes Would you mind if I would it be OK if I read aloud to you just as a section you're talking about this process of discovering what your dream job would be. And you're write, "If companies were more conscious, they would treat their customers better. There would be more integrity and trust in the world. If companies and their leaders were more conscious, they would treat their employees better. There would be less trauma and stress. There would be more healing, more creativity.   Liesel Mertes People could be whole. We wouldn't need to think of our work life as bad and the rest of our lives as good. We can bring compassion into everything we do at work, not just because it makes others feel better, but also because it's a better strategy for success. The research bears this out. We just haven't quite caught up to it in practice yet."   Liesel Mertes I feel like that echoes what you just said, and I would love to hear in your position and scope of influence.   Liesel Mertes Tell us a little bit about your role at LinkedIn and how you've gone about being part of actualizing some of those beautiful sentiments. And I love for you to also include some of the pain points along the way from concept to reality. There's oftentimes some stretching that goes.   Scott Shute Sure, sure. I've been at LinkedIn for nine years and the first six of those, I was the VP of Global Customer Operations, which was essentially customer service and a lot of other functions that are customer facing outside of sales. And part of me is I've I was able to bring my mindfulness or my contemplative practice to work, starting about two years in as a volunteer for my for my other job. And I've been in this this role now for three years as a full time role, Head of Mindfulness and Compassion.   Scott Shute But what does it mean? So there's two parts of my role, mainstream mindfulness and operationalise compassion and in mainstream mindfulness, we're just trying to make mindfulness as meditation really and overall mindfulness like self awareness, just as normal as physical exercise. So you can think of it like mental exercise and physical exercise, because our employees, they're almost all knowledge workers. Right. We don't need to run six minute miles or lift heavy things, but we do need to stay mentally focused and emotionally balanced and all those sorts of things.   Scott Shute So this is why it's important. And what it means is we offer things like meditation sessions. We have, well, pre pandemic. We had 40 to 60 a week across the globe. LinkedIn is about a fifteen or sixteen thousand person company. We offer an app called Why Is It Work, which we really like from our partners at Wisdom Labs. And every year we do a 30 day challenge involving that app, usually in October, where we get people to use it and the challeng

    45 min
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It can be difficult to support coworkers as they go through hard times. Liesel Mertes cultivates empathy at work as guests share stories of how real-life struggle affected the workplace. Episodes close with actionable tips to make you a better manager, coworker, and friend.

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