Episode 5: Ken Liu - the humanistic implications of AI on health, purpose, work and creativity North of Patient

A case for machine-generated empathy, musings on homeschooling and why it's important to first figure out what doctors are meant to do



Welcome to the ⁠North of Patient⁠ podcast - conversations on health[beyond]care - where we paint an inspired landscape of healthcare's future through dialogues with creative and unconventional thinkers from around the world.

For a summary of the episode, visit the ⁠blog post⁠ on North of Patient:
https://open.substack.com/pub/puneetseth/p/episode-5-ken-liu-the-humanistic

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This week’s guest is Ken Liu. Ken is an American author of speculative fiction. A winner of the Nebula, Hugo, and World Fantasy awards, he wrote the Dandelion Dynasty, a silkpunk epic fantasy series (starting with The Grace of Kings), as well as short story collections The Paper Menagerie and Other Stories and The Hidden Girl and Other Stories. He also penned the Star Wars novel The Legends of Luke Skywalker.

Prior to becoming a full-time writer, Liu worked as a software engineer, corporate lawyer, and litigation consultant. Liu frequently speaks at conferences and universities on a variety of topics, including futurism, machine-augmented creativity, history of technology, bookmaking, and the mathematics of origami.

I was first introduced to Ken’s writing through a short story he wrote called “Good Stories”, which explores creativity in a world where AI generates most of the content, and the highlights the struggle of an author who feels that humans crave human-generated art and writing. This piece made me think about how we might feel in the future about empathy coming from AI and machines vs. human clinicians, and I explored this in another blog post.

I was thrilled that Ken agreed to join as a guest on the podcast, and the conversation did not disappoint. It expectedly took a more philosophical tone than previous episodes and covered a range of topics around the intersection of AI and the human condition.

Ken’s insights remind us that as we integrate more AI into healthcare, we must revisit and realign with our fundamental goals—not just to adapt to new technologies but to ensure they enhance our human values and improve care outcomes. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the future intersections of technology, storytelling, and human-centered care. Tune in to unpack these complex but critical dialogues.

Key stamps from our conversation are below:

02:34 Journey to Becoming a Speculative Fiction Author05:27 The Shift to Homeschooling and Parenting Philosophy09:33 Exploring the Value of Education and Individuality11:31 The Role of Higher Education and the Quest for Meaning12:41 Paternalism in healthcare14:23 Personal Reflections on Career Paths and Storytelling15:31 On meandering and purpose21:52 Redefining Passion and Career in a Changing World25:01 The Future of Work and Inventing New Roles27:39 Healthcare, AI, and the Human Element29:39 Why do we have doctors to begin with?32:51 How do we value human creation?34:51 The Value of Creativity: Human vs. Machine37:27 Exploring Empathy: Human Touch vs. Machine Efficiency41:11 The Role of Empathy in Healthcare: A Deep Dive49:55 AI and Creativity: Can Machines Surpass Human Artistry?01:05:41 The Future of Healthcare: AI's Role in Prevention and Care01:10:26 Closing Thoughts on Healthcare and Technology