Sauna Talk SaunaTimes

Welcome to this Sauna Talk podcast episode with Nick Fox: Minnesota’s first Wim Hof certified instructor and baker of amazing homemade bread.
We communed in heat, cold plunge and nature in my backyard sauna recently and you’ll hear my interview with Nick in just a moment. But before then, I’d like to take you back to a dark and cold February night in Minnesota a few years ago when Nick first sat down to watch the VICE documentary on Wim Hof, the Ice Man. Inspired by the science and adventures in the cold with minimal clothing, Nick began taking cold showers and practicing breathwork the very next day. His experience with the Wim Hof Method (WHM) initiated Nick’s breathwork journey. In January of 2022 he went to Poland to complete his certification as a WHM Instructor, and later he became certified in the Oxygen Advantage. Now, he guides breathwork and coaches ice baths in workshops around the Midwest. 
Pulmonaut beginnings Before becoming a full-time Pulmonaut, (a pulmonaut is simply someone who uses their breath as a tool for exploration and transformation) Nick taught Philosophy, History, and Art at both the high school and college level. He is also a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve, and spends his summers out in the field with the cadets at the Military Academy in West Point, NY. When he’s not playing Army, he’s writing and drawing with his young kids. 
Sauna Talk Podcast cold exposure breathwork guests Those familiar with this podcast are familiar with a few other Sauna Talk guests from the world of cold exposure and breathwork. A few that come to mind include Harvey Martin, who currently is on staff breathing and contrast therapy-ing with the San Francisco Giants major league baseball team, Jesse Coomer, trainer, breathwork coach and author of two books on the subject, and Wim Hof himself, back in 2017. So feel free to dig back and check out these episodes in particular.
Back to Nick Teaching people deep conscious breathing and cold exposure techniques is his new passion. You can visit his website foxfirebreathworks.com where you’ll be able to check out his upcoming workshops and classes. For example, in January 2024, it should be cold enough in Minneapolis for Nick’s winter swimming class at the Swedish Institute. He is mobilizing a kick ass wood fired mobile sauna (one that I actually had a hand in helping with with my friends Brad and Ben at Prairiewood Saunas, but that’s story for another day coming soon). Anyhow, Nick looks forward to helping you explore your inner strengths. And I am super happy to share some breathing on the bench with you and Nick Fox from FoxFire Breathworks. Welcome Nick to Sauna Talk!

Today we welcome a very special guest to Sauna Talk: Dr. Charles Raison. His biography is as follows:
Dr. Raison is a the Mary Sue and Mike Shannon Chair for Healthy Minds, Children & Families in the School of Human Ecology and a Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin – Madison. Dr. Raison received his medical degree from Washington University in St Louis, Missouri, where he was elected to Alpha Omega Alpha and won the Missouri State Medical Association Award. He completed residency training at the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and Hospital in Los Angeles. In addition to his medical training, Dr. Raison obtained his Masters of English from the University of Denver.
Dr. Raison has written and published over 100 scientific papers as well over 20 review papers and editorials. Chapters he has written have been featured in over 30 books, and he has written two books, most recently The New Mind-Body Science of Depression, published by WW Norton in 2017. Dr. Raison’s publications have been cited over 14,000 times, with three publications having more than 1,000 citations. His H-index is 44. The recipient of several teaching awards, Dr. Raison has received research funding from the National Institute of Mental Health, National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. His visionary work focuses on the treatment of depression in response to illness and stress, translating neurobiological findings into novel interventions. In addition to his activities at University of Wisconsin-Madison, Dr. Raison is the mental health expert for CNN.com.”
Reference: UW-Madisonhttps://www.psychiatry.wisc.edu › staff › raison-charles
Sauna Talk excerpts We discuss Charles’ academic and personal background, how he has been interested in World’s ancient practices including Buddist Tuumo meditation, where Tibetan monks are wrapped in cold wet blankets and through breathing and meditation, are able to warm themselves for a long period of time. The area around research and studies to treat depression are of special interest. Reaching a hypothermia state has proven health benefits. Dr. Raison’s 2010 depression study with 16 people, who reached 101.3 degrees f. shown a marketed decrease in depression. The participants actually lowered their internal body temperature.
The World leader in Hypothermia We discuss other work and studies happening right now in the United States, through Harvard University and Massachusetts General. Also Ashley Mason’s work in San Francisco. More on this soon! The Vail sauna lab Eagle County Co. is an interesting place. The disparity of rich and poor, and people moving their and experiencing the Paradox of Paradise, are likely culprits that lead to the area having the highest suicide rate in the country.
Ashley Mason, UCSF. Heat has an antidepressant effect.
Transforming mental health The good news is a private investment of $100mm towards a new hospital in Vail that is committed to transform mental health in this country. Providing equitable care for rich and non rich, integrating mind/body practices. Vail Health is set to be a world class research institute. Heat, thermal studies, psychedelic research are all areas of study. It is an exciting time for sauna research.
The CHILL study. Can you benefit from heat whether you are taking an antidepressant or not?
This episode tees the ball up for our follow up conversation which I will be equally excited to bring to you in the future.
So, for right now, I am pleased to present to you Dr. Charles Raison.

Welcome to this mini Sauna Talk episode from inside and around the World’s Largest Sauna. The sauna was constructed as part of the RunningMan festival outside of Atlanta Georgia, this past weekend, mid October 2023.
I’ll try to connect the dots to how the World’s Largest Sauna came about. And it started with the folks at Embrace North, building a few saunas for the All Day Running organization. And as All Day Running began planning for the RunningMan festival, well, their experience with good heat and creative right brain thinking on the bench fostered a way to “scale” sauna.\
And we move over to All Day Running’s co founder Todd Ferneaux’s backyard. Here is where Todd built the mock prototype for the World’s Largest Sauna. I’ll spare the nuts and bolts of its creative construction, as you can listen to my recent podcast interview with Todd for more on that.
World’s Largest Sauna building I was able to lend to help with some of the construction of the sauna and set up.
For now, though, I’d like to welcome you into the event: RunningMan. I attended for a few reasons, and one was to help share what I know about running the sauna stoves. I have used this same stove for 30 years. As elder statesman with more grey hair than most at the event, I was happy to help coach the stokers who became quick studies on stove operation. (note: you don’t have to go into the hot room to see how your stove is performing. If you see smoke coming out the chimney, it needs attending).
Runners and Sauna enthusiasts Another reason why I was happy to attend RunningMan is to celebrate and experience all the goodness happening with the Venn diagram overlap of people into hot/cold contrast therapy and people into running. As we look at the overlap, the commonalities become clear.
Runners:
know how to push the limits of human performance. are tuned into their bodies.. and their minds. get high on their own supply. are generally conscious folks who can feel when endorphins are rushing. know how good it feels the moment you stop banging your head against a wall. All above also applies to all of us who dig sauna. And cold plunge, as peanut butter and jelly. Knowing our bodies, minds, spirits. Runners, generally, all dig sauna. And when they feel good heat, it’s all over.
So, in this episode you’ll hear from Todd at All Day Running, C T from Nomad Sauna, Tyler, one of the stokers, and a couple other guests, all of whom will give you a good flavor of what it’s like to be in and around the World’s Largest Sauna.

Today on the bench, we welcome Todd Furneaux who is spearheading the building of the World’s Largest Sauna. The sauna is being constructed as part of Running Man, a three day festival happening outside of Atlanta Georgia this mid October 2023.
During this episode, you’ll hear about Todd’s company and cohorts, All Day Running. And how the idea of building the World’s Largest Sauna was surely fostered on the sauna bench or in the cold plunge. As with endorphins running and community spiriting, this is the environment for Sauna Talk and crazy out there thinking.
Atlanta steeplechase. Grass track. Sauna Village, fun zone, DJs, live music, conferences,
October 17, 18, 19 event.
Sauna can hold. 250 – 350 people at a time.
Mechanics of World’s Largest Sauna Specially designed Todd Right Brain Thinking:
3,000 square feet in modular squares using 4’x4′ framing material. Side walls: sauna tent material 3 ply oxford. 9′ tall 20′ wide. Flooring: cedar flooring. Roof: Greenhouse style sauna inspiration from NorthUp in Minneapolis. Clear polycarbonate roofing. Same material It’s rated to over 550f. to melt it. The material let’s the light in. There is a greenhouse effect with clear polycarbonate as roofing. On sunny Atlanta days, it’s about 120f. before lighting to the stove. Sauna stoves: 13 large Kuumas. oven for every 200 sf. Prototype: 200 sf sauna 20’x10′. A great way of testing the temperature of things. How the size of the panels.
Final dimensions of the world’s largest sauna 65′ x 45′ with extra 200 – 400′ square feet entry and exit.
Exercising your immune system
Running and Sauna.. they go hand in hand.

Today on the virtual sauna bench, i’m pleased to bring you Sauna Talk: Emma O’Kelly, author of the new book Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat.
We join Emma from her home in North London. And, we hear from Emma how the idea for this book was seeded through the pandemic. Plus, how the health benefits of sauna helped make the book happen.
In the book, Emma does a great job outlining the reported health benefits of sauna, and we touch upon a few of these during our interview.
You wil be transported to how Emma and photographer Maija Astikainen became fast friends, collaborators, and travel partners through the Nordic regions of Europe.
Sauna: The Power of Deep Heat is shipping starting mid September. Pre orders are available now via Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
Editor’s note During Sauna Talk: Emma O’Kelly, we need to dive deeper into Sauna Brain! What it is and why it’s good, but I forgot where I left my towel and water bottle.
Glenn’s notes I found myself reaching for a pen many times while reading this new book! So, a few excerpts and notes include:
Health Benefits: Good reasons to roast
Sweat
“Sauna makes us sweat which is a good gym work out for the organs and the blood vessels,” says Hans Hägglund MD, PhD, a medical doctor and professor at Uppsala University in Sweden.
Sauna Detox
We produce about 0.5kg of sweat in a 30-minute
sauna, and while around 97 per cent of this
is water, studies have shown that some toxins
and heavy metals are excreted too, and sweat
does this more effectively than urine.
Good Stress
Hormetic stress is “good stress”. Things like
jumping in a cold pond, or competing in a
marathon, or making a really complicated cake
are examples of good stress.
Temperatures of around 38°C to 40°C stimulate
the immune system
A few other sauna health benefits from our Sauna Talk: Emma O’Kelly Inflammation
Charles Raison MD, professor of psychiatry
at the University of Wisconsin-Madison (USA),
is an active proponent of this theory. “Since the
1980s, we have known that depressed people
are hotter and find it harder to sweat,” he says.
Plus, “The pathways that control our ability to cool
off overlap with pathways that regulate our
mood. Body temperature and mood are
directly linked.”
Pain relief
Because blood vessels relax and dilate
in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles
and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and
stiffness. What’s more, sauna causes levels of
beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to
rise. So, for those living with pain for which there
is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular
sauna sessions can provide immense relief.
Immunity
Because blood vessels relax and dilate
in a sauna and blood flow increases to muscles
and joints which can in turn alleviate pain and
stiffness. What’s more, sauna causes levels of
beta-endorphins – important pain relievers – to
rise. For those living with pain for which there
is no cure, such as rheumatoid arthritis, regular
sauna sessions can provide immense relief.
Blood Pressure
Laukkanen’s seminal study found that those
who took sauna baths four to seven times a
week cut their risk of high blood pressure by
almost half compared to once-a-week sauna
bathers. Why? Well, the most common theory
is that the increase in body temperature during
sauna causes blood vessels to dilate, which can
increase blood flow and improve the function of
the endothelium – the tissue that lines the inside
of blood vessels.

“Nature teaches more than
she preaches. There are no sermons
in stones. It is easier to get a spark
out of a stone than a moral.”
John Burroughs,
The Writings of John Burroughs, 1913

Today on the global sauna bench, we Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland from inside and just back from war torn Ukraine.
Introduction from Minnesota Before we dive into this episode, I’d like to paint a picture of where I am sitting and what i’m thinking about. I am speaking to you while sitting on my deck at our island cabin in Northern Minnesota. I can see about 8 miles to the East, along a shoreline dotted with islands and outcroppings of birch and pine. It’s a crystal clear day with light puffy clouds across the horizon. I’m in shorts, barefoot, and have just immersed myself from a cool morning swim. Random cold exposure being that much more effective than deliberate. There are no airplanes overhead. The aura is of calm and peace.
To my right, 25 or so steps down a walkway through the woods, sits our cabin sauna that we built in 1996. Original stove. Original design, it’s been my thermal tranquil oasis for decades. It exudes spiritual patina. Those of you with your own saunas know what i’m talking about. In sauna we are transformed with peace and tranquility.
I recently turned 60. I am scaling down my professional career in the food industry. Gratefully, I am free from contractual bullshit in the sauna industry. I get to work with who I like, and most all of us are really cool, thoughtful, conscious people. I am feeling mighty blessed, and in times like these, sitting quietly on the sauna bench or on the dock between sauna rounds, If i listen quietly enough, i can hear soft voices of people, even half way around the world, miles less fortunate. Can you listen quietly enough to hear their voices?
And speaking of really cool, thoughtful, conscious people, I’d like to reintroduce to you Mikkel Aaland. Let’s have Mikkel help us hear these voices.
Mikkel from Ukraine: three time Sauna Talk guest It’s hard to put into words the respect and appreciation I have for Mikkel. With this episode, he has become a third time guest to the Sauna Talk podcast, outnumbering most all others by two. It’s a lot of Sauna Talk. Yet Mikkel, to me, brings Sauna Talk up a notch. Where many see a crescent, Mikkel sees the whole of the moon.
During our July 2016 podcast, we discuss his iconic book Sweat. On our September 2020 podcast, during sauna and the time of Corona, we discuss his Perfect Sweat Documentary project. And now today, you will hear in Mikkel’s voice how Ukrainians are dealing with the invasion of their country from within Ukraine. This is his third trip into Ukraine since the invasion. And with each trip, Mikkel is facilitating bringing a sauna with him to the war torn country of Ukraine.
But this Sauna Talk with Mikkel Aaland episode isn’t a downer. I promise you. You will hear about the wonderfulness of what sauna is bringing to the people of Ukraine. And we sauna enthusiasts can put two and two together to get an idea what sauna can do for people in distress. I get choked up during this interview, and that’s what sauna can do for us. Like many of us, we can take a lot of good löyly, but our edges can be soft.
I don’t know about you, but when I read and hear about the sacrifices and perils happening with the people in Ukraine, I get very bummed out. Can we do something is a valid question. And I’m happy to report, Mikkel Aaland is doing a lot more than just something.
Sauna-Aid Yes, Sauna-Aid!  Mikkel is quick to compliment many others, yet he is leading the charge on behalf of Sauna Aid, a multinational initiative sponsored by the International Sauna Association.
This is a beautiful story of the magic of sauna. The power of sauna as community, therapy, healing, comradeship, wellness, mindfulness, peace. So many great attributes, let’s hear it from the words of Mikkel Aaland.