Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler

Richard Ostler
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Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler Podcast

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

  1. 4 DAYS AGO

    Episode 778: Caysen Crum, Gay Latter-day Saint, Age 24, Self-Love/Acceptance

    **This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text/chat 988** My friend Caysen Crum (New Hampshire RM, Southern Utah University Grad, HXP Guide, Further Physician, Minersville Utah) joins us to share his story of doing everything he could to be “Mr. perfect and straight” (including serving a perfectly obedient mission, dating women, excelling at sports/academics) and how that eventually led to depression and suicidal ideation. Caysen talks of his love for everyone else—but how he had no love for himself. Caysen talks about hitting rock bottom with his decision to end his life and how a grandmother changed that decision. Caysen then talks about therapy (super helpful to end his internalized homophobia) and then powerful spiritual experiences while in Africa on an HXP trip including deep confirmation that God made Caysen gay—and that is a good thing allowing Caysen life mission of blessing others to be possible. Caysen also talks about how shame has no place in our lives and how it is eliminated “by the Atonement of Jesus Christ” and good therapy. Cayson talks about helpful people along the way (his YSA Bishop, therapist, camp counselor and others). It is hard to put into words how powerful Caysen’s story is—how he teaches of loving Heavenly Parents and our role of the Savior—and his journey to accept being gay. I was brought to tears a few times by the spiritual maturity, doctrinal insights. and goodness of Caysen. Our world and church are better off with people like Caysen part of it. If you are figuring out your sexual orientation/gender identity, need more Jesus/hope in your life, or want to better support queer Latter-day Saints, please listen to Caysen’s powerful story. You are a good man, Caysen. Thank you for being on the podcast. Links: Caysen’s Lift and Love story on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/C_QlDVIPkdJ/?igsh=MXJ3cTVjdjJvdnlkNQ%3D%3D Cayson’s IG: @caysencrum Facebook Group to Support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

    1h 41m

  2. 13 SEPT

    Episode 777: Ben Bernards, LDS Father of Two Transgender Daughters

    My friend Ben Bernards (lives in Sacramento, RM, current Bishopric member, author, podcaster, EFY speaker, early 40s) joins us to share their family story. This story started with three children — a daughter and then two sons — but now continues with 3 daughters, as both of their sons are transgender. Ben talks about how he and his wife Megan are navigating this road to support their transgender and cisgender children, with powerful insights for anyone looking to support someone who is transgender Ben shares deeply spiritual experiences and powerful insights when each daughter came out at different stages in their lives, and the surprising feelings of calm and peace they felt each time. Ben talks about their goal to preserve the family relationships and walk with their transgender daughters—and also deeply spiritual experiences on how much our Heavenly Parents love Ben’s daughters—and how everyone is created in their image. Ben talks about how being “safe person” for them gave them courage to come out, when they were scared to do so. Ben talks about open ended questions like “how long have you felt this way” and “how best can I support you” to keep the conversation going. Ben also talks about grief/loss of changing family expectations—including the lives he once imagined as a father of two sons. Ben talks about the need for community of other LDS parents with transgender children. Ben continues with how the recent handbook changes (Aug 2024) negatively impact transgender Latter-day Saints and how the “border drawn in a new location and how his transgender daughters are now outside”. My heart aches as I see the painful impact of these handbook changes on LDS families with transgender members. Thank you, Ben (and your whole family), for sharing your story. It is a beautiful family love story. Thank you for giving all insights on how to better understand, see, and support our transgender/non-binary friends. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Dr Julia Bernards Episode 664: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-664-dr-julia-bernards-byu-dissertation-on-transgender/id1347971725?i=1000619444998 Gallup Poll on LGBTQ+ identification by generation: https://news.gallup.com/poll/611864/lgbtq-identification.aspx Poll at BYU finding 13% of population were queer: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young_University_LGBT_history#cite_note-Survey-3

    1h 41m

  3. 9 SEPT

    Episode 776: Michelle and Steve Shaw – Improving Church Culture for Members with Disabilities

    Michelle and Steve Shaw are the parents of four children, three of whom have been diagnosed with neurological disabilities, ranging from ADHD to anomalies in the brain. They are active members of the Church and live in the Seattle area; Michelle serves in her Stake Primary Presidency and Steve serves on the Stake High Council. Michelle is also a special education teacher, and teacher of the blind and visually impaired, so she brings additional perspective to the issues that members with disabilities face as they try to integrate with Church culture. I am grateful to Michelle and Steve, and vicariously to their children, for having the courage to start having conversations about ways that we can make sure that each member of the Church, regardless of their varying capacities, feels safe and seen in the Church setting. Michelle and Steve talk about starting their family and having all of the hopes that many of us have at that stage of life. They describe having certain assumptions about the role that the Church would play in the lives of their children; they anticipated their kids enjoying primary and youth programs, and having a sense of safety and belonging that a ward family might provide. They also talk about their growing disappointment, as they have watched their children struggle in many of the settings and programs that the Church provides for children and youth. Michelle and Steve know that other members of the Church have good intentions, and that no one intends harm towards their children; they also know the heartache that accompanies watching their kids feel misunderstood, or “othered” by well-meaning members. They describe what it is like for them to grapple with the paradox of belonging to our family-centered Church, while also knowing that their family cannot always fully participate due to limitations in the flexibility of Church culture and assumptions others make about their kids. Michelle and Steve describe ways that they believe Church culture can improve so that no one feels “othered” and so that all of us can enjoy worshipping together. As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).

    1h 19m

  4. 5 SEPT

    Episode 775: Rylee, Transgender Latter-day Saint, Brave Story

    My friend Rylee (he/they) joins us to share their story. Rylee (married father of 7, mid-40’s. RM, believing/active LDS, IT professional) talks about their feelings of gender dysphoria from their earliest memories. Rylee (who is doing the podcast to give others hope walking this road) talks about their journey of self-discovery, navigating faith and identity, lessons learned and hopes for the future. Rylee talks about things they are doing within the new transgender handbook policies to stay temple-worthy and to fully participate in the Church. At the same time, Rylee talks about the sacrifice to make this possible and also how the handbook can cause transgender members to feel like second class citizens. Rylee and I talk about how gender dysphoria is a recognized/established health issue with guidelines to feel better—and how staying fully active in the church takes some of those guidelines off the table. Rylee also talks about how his gender dysphoria is the bottom of the iceberg—but was presenting with depression and anxiety (top of the iceberg stuff that is easier to see) and how he needed to recognize/address gender dysphoria to improve his mental health. Rylee talks about his work to take shame out of his life for never fitting into the cultural expectations for a man—and his firm testimony that he is created as intended by our Heavenly Parents and this “is a beautiful part of who I am” that doesn’t need fixing in the resurrection. If you have feelings of gender dysphoria (or looking to better support transgender/non-binary Latter-day Saint), please listen to Rylee and their deeply insightful and spiritual journey. Thank you, Rylee, for your courage to be on the podcast. I was so moved listening to your story. You are so brave. We need good people like you in our Church and society. You help us to expand the boarders of Zion so more feel welcome, needed, and belonging. Links: Rylee’s email: rylee.burn@icloud.com

    1h 20m

  5. 1 SEPT

    Episode 774: John Crane, Late 70s, RM, Believes in Gospel, Same-Sex Marriage

    My friend John Crane (lives in Austin TX, grew up in Oregon/Washington, Sweden RM 1966-68, married a woman, has 4 kids and many grandkids, divorced, been with husband Thom for over 35 years, no longer LDS), joins us to share his story being gay and a deep believer in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. John starts with his growing up years and finding his spiritual home in the Church and then serving a successful mission in Sweden. John talks about getting married to a woman (being more of a “church assignment”) and having 4 kids. John talks about that marriage ending and deciding to date men (which led to being excommunicated—John fulfilled a church assignment the night before). John talks about painful/messy experiences dating men (and being in unhealthy relationships) and continue to pray to God for direction. John talks about finding his husband Thom (also a RM) being the answer to his prayers (and Thom’s prayers) and how they built a life—and beautiful love story—together. John—a deeply emotional and spiritual man—talks about his love of Heavenly Father, the Savior, the Gospel of Jesus Christ and scriptures and the many deeply spiritual experiences that are part of his journey (including baptizing his Dad). John talks about his husband Thom and their deep love and companionship (and being there for each other as they get older) and Thom’s dedicated temple family history work and his support of his kids/grandchildren who have/will serve missions. I’m so grateful for John’s courage to be on the podcast and share his story and his insights into the character of God/our Savior and their constant role in our lives. You are a good man, John. Your story will help so many. Links: John’s e-mail: john144@gmail.com The inspiration for John’s e-mail: John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    1h 17m

  6. 27 AUG

    Episode 773: Guillermo Lemus, Faith Crisis/Expansion, Staying LDS

    My friend Guillermo Lemus (age 30, BYU grad student, BYU-Idaho grad, married, RM) joins us to share his multi-year journey to process the complicated aspects of our Church and find a way to remain a member of the Church. In sharing his story, Guillermo normalizes a faith crisis/expansion (including all the pain one feels on this road) and what he (and other did) to help/support him. Guillermo uses the model of the “Garden/Fall/Redemption” to frame up a faith expansion in a positive and on-shaming way. Guillermo shares a beautiful poem (“Lord of the 4th Watch—see show notes) and also talks about self-love. If you are in faith expansion and want to find a way to authentically stay in the Church, Guillermo story will help you (it helps me!). And if you are looking to better support our good members walking this road, Guillermo story/insights will help you better support others. Thank you, Guillermo, for being on the podcast. You represent everything good about our Church and world. You are a good man and friend. Your story will help so many. Links: Guillermo’s IG: @glemoose and @edens_exodus Twitter: @GELemus13 Richard Ostler’s chapter 10 (from his book Listen, Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture) on Ministering to Those With Questions: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tvlalac35zozq8625hc4r/Chapter-10-Ministering-To-Those-With-Questions.-Listen-Learn-and-Love-Improving-Latter-day-Saint-Culture.pdf?rlkey=e2fdmkkwwa3pu80n33ighncix&dl=0

    1h 8m

  7. 22 AUG

    Episode 772: Bryce Cook, LDS Father of Two Gay Sons, Longtime Ally

    My friend and mentor Bryce Cook (married, father of 6 children/7 grandchildren) joins us to talk about how he and his wife Sara navigated the road of having two gay sons (which started in 2003 when their son Trevor came out as gay). Bryce talks about how his worldview of gay people dramatically changed upon learning his good/talented/spiritual son is gay. Bryce talks about Trevor “wanting companionship” just like he saw with his parents (Trevor married his husband Ben in 2023). Their third son Tanner also came out as gay after he saw how his family responded to Trevor’s coming out. Bryce talks about deep spiritual promptings that he and Sara needed to do something with the knowledge they gained and not be silent, which led to the formation of All Arizona in 2012. Bryce talks about how their home became a safe place for queer Latter-day Saints and the resulting spiritual/sacred experiences that followed—and how the annual All Arizona conferences provided support/community to LGBTQ members and education/understanding for their family members and church leaders. Bryce talks about the promptings he received to write about this topic, which became a groundbreaking widely-circulated essay called “What Do We Know of God’s Will For His LGBT Children? An Examination of the LDS Church’s Position on Homosexuality (see show notes). This essay (which has helped me better understand this issue) is powerful and brings more insight/understanding (and possibilities) for queer Latter-day Saints and those who support them. Thank you, Bryce and Sara (and your wonderful family) for teaching how to better love and support. Your story is a beautiful family love story. I encourage everyone to listen to Bryce’s podcast and read his essay—I believe you will have better tools to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Bryce’s essay: mormonlgbtquestions.com/ All Arizona: www.allarizona.org/ Bryce/Sara’s earlier podcast (episode 116): soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-116-bryce-and-sara-cook-active-lds-6-children-including-two-gay-sons

    1h 20m

  8. 17 AUG

    Episode 771: Seth Price, Recent RM, Gay Latter-day Saint

    ** Trigger Warning. This episode talks about suicide. If you are suicidal, please call, test, chat 988 ** My friend Seth Price (Canadian, Age 20, Service Missionary) joins us to bravely share his story. Seth talks about dealing with and then accepting being called on a service mission (finished July 2024) when he always wanted to serve a proselyting mission. Seth talks about learning how to accept his circumstances because of his desire to serve Christ and help others come unto Christ and feel His love and acceptance. Seth talks about how he learned “he is not meant to fit the mold” and how that allows him to help love and support others—and help them find Christ. Seth talks about his journey to accept being gay through middle school and high school (including times when he went back in the closet given the reactions of others). Seth talks about his hopes for the future and his love of our Savior. Seth also talks about his brother Kaleb who died of suicide in 2022 and how he is navigating losing his brother. I am so impressed with the spiritual maturity of Seth, his commitment to doing good, and his love of everyone (Seth’s Facebook profile says “God has never met a person He did not love”). It is people like Seth that give me hope for the future of our Church and society. Thank you, Seth, for being on the podcast—you are a good man. You have a great life ahead of you!

    1h 4m
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About

Welcome to our podcast! My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group. I am the author of three books: “Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/5248297.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773) “Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6003149.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566) “Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Deseret Book (deseretbook.com/product/6026921.html) and Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280) The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations. Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️ I am the author of two Ensign articles: ‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin ‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use. This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children. Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books. With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤ Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5 E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com

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