Path to Well-Being in Law

pathtowellbeinginlaw
Path to Well-Being in Law Podcast

A podcast presented by the National Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being, powered by ALPS

  1. 11/10/2023

    Path to Well Being in Law - Episode 30: Javoyne Hicks

    Chris Newbold:  Hello, well-being friends and welcome to the Path to Well-Being In Law Podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being In Law. I'm your co-host, Chris Newbold, executive vice president of ALPS malpractice insurance, and I'm once again joined by my favorite and only co-host of the podcast, Bree Buchanan. Bree, how's it going today?  Bree Buchanan:  Good answer, Chris. It's going great. Great to be here with you.  Chris Newbold:  Obviously most of you know Bree. Bree continues to be a forceful advocate in the well-being space working for Krill Strategies and doing a number of different speaking engagements around the country. So again, most of you know by now that our goal here is to introduce you to thought leaders doing meaningful work in the well-being space, in the legal profession, and in the process build and nurture a national network of well-being advocates intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. And I got to tell you, one of the things that I think I've come to realize the more work that I've done in the well-being space is the power of storytelling and the power of what motivates people to get involved in things that are close to the heart or things that have had a personal impact on individuals. And today's guest I think really epitomizes when something can happen in your life that changes the course of life.  There is certainly a notion of that propelling a passion and an interest in an issue, and that certainly is the case with somebody that we really love in the well-being movement. One of the newest additions to the Institute for Well-Being in Law's board of directors, and that's Javoyne Hicks out of Georgia. I'm going to let Bree introduce Javoyne to the listeners, but just know she's one of my favorite people. It's really a joy to bring her on this particular podcast, and so much of why I do this work is because of stories like you're going to hear from Javoyne. So Bree, love it if you could introduce Javoyne to the listeners.  Bree Buchanan:  And I've just been so happy that Javoyne has joined us on the board of directors and she just has this quiet, persistent, persuasive nature to her, and you're going to hear about all the things that she's been able to achieve. So Javoyne Hicks serves as the chair of the State Bar of Georgia's Lawyers Living Well Committee and is a member of the executive committee for their State Bar's Board of Governors. She helped develop the State Bar of Georgia's first Wellness and Practical Skills, 12 hour CLE, which now, which is coming up in just a few days, is really blossomed into a wellness institute, and I'm excited Javoyne to get to be one of your speakers at that too. She has spearheaded the movement to create a wellness center as part of the State Bar of Georgia, and really just all of these developments have her fingerprints on all of them as a catalyst for what's going on there.  Javoyne's goal is to normalize the attention everyone should be paying to their own well-being and minimize the stigma that exists that keeps people from seeking help when needed. As such, Javoyne serves on the board of IWIL and the American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. In her day job, and yes, besides all of that, she also is the chief senior assistant district attorney in the Fulton County District Attorney's Office. So welcome Javoyne. Thank you for being here today.  Javoyne Hicks:  Thank you so much, Bree, for having me. I'm really excited about being here. Just as excited as I'm about being on the IWIL board. Very excited.  Bree Buchanan:  Absolutely. Javoyne, I'm going to ask you the question that we ask everybody on the podcast at the beginning to tell us why you are such a passionate advocate for well-being in the legal profession. What is in your life that really drives that passion?  Javoyne Hicks:  Well, Bree, that question is one that most people ask, but it started over 18 years ago. It was 19 years ago now when the fathe

    49 min
  2. 20/09/2023

    Path to Well-Being in Law - Episode 29:Julian Sarafian

    Chris Newbold:  Hello friends. Welcome to the Path to Well-Being In Law podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being In Law. I'm your co-host Chris Newbold. I'm always thrilled and to be with my co-host, Bree Buchanan. Bree, how are you doing?  Bree Buchanan:  Doing great, Chris. How are you?  Chris Newbold:  Good, good. As our listeners know, I just want to reset this. Every time we do a podcast, I think we're welcoming new listeners in to the wellbeing movement. And Bree, one of our passions is to continue to introduce thought leaders doing meaningful work in the wellbeing space within the legal profession and in the process build and nurture a national network of wellbeing advocates intent on creating a culture shift in the profession. And I think we are super excited about our guests today because the ability for us, I've always thought that the secret sauce of creating a culture shift in this profession is the ability to engage in storytelling and the realities of what people's lives have been like in law and to give people platforms to tell their story.  And we are really thrilled to be welcoming Julian Sarafian to the podcast, a noted social media influencer who is really a champion for mental health based upon his own personal story and what appeared to be just a straight direct success track in law. And so Bree, why don't I hand it off to you to introduce Julian, and we're really excited about where the conversation's going to take us today.  Bree Buchanan:  Absolutely. And I think Julian and his ability to do the storytelling and pull people in, and another thing I'm excited about, Julian, having you today is somebody that is of a younger generation than us because that's critical. One of the things I often say is that the legal profession will change. It will, because as the younger generations come up to positions of power, I truly believe they're not going to tolerate basically the working conditions that predominate through the legal profession right now. So it's inevitable. But I would say Julian is somebody who is accelerating that change to his work. So I'm going to give you a quick introduction of him and then we'll get to meeting Julian really quickly here. And I also will say, Julian, that you have such a humble bio. I am really impressed with that. So I try to refrain from pumping it up, but there's a lot of humility here and I see that as a great sign for somebody.  So Julian Sarafian is a lawyer and content creator, but owe so much more. That was my editorial. His law firm For Creators by Creators PC is the premier law firm focused on representing content creators and social media influencers. As a content creator himself, Julian produces videos and blog posts related to the legal profession, law and mental health on TikTok, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Instagram where, drum roll here, his cumulative following is nearly 350,000. He's given multiple TEDx talks, the cost of success that he did dove into what originally made him viral, his mental health story as a high achiever who faced mental health challenges along the way, culminating in him quitting his job in Big Law during the COVID pandemic. And there's a story there. He has written and published op-ed pieces in the American Lawyer, Law360, Business Insider, Bloomberg Law, and CNBC. And his advocacy for mental health has been covered by the New York Times and Bloomberg Law. So Julian, welcome. We are so delighted that you're here with us today.  Julian Sarafian:  Thank you Bree and Chris for the very warm introduction, and I'm very happy to be here, excited to talk about these really important issues with you guys.  Bree Buchanan:  One of the things I really appreciate so much and looking at, thank you for giving me this excuse to spend a lot of time on TikTok, by the way.  Julian Sarafian:  Oh man. I don't know if I'll say you're welcome to that one.  Bree Buchanan:  But it's been, you really are such clearly a spokesperson

    48 min
  3. 25/04/2023

    Path to Well-Being in Law - Episode 28: Tara Antonipilla

    We are on the cusp of one of IWIL's most notable programming events of the year, Well-Being Week in Law, and we have a very special guest with us today to talk about one of IWIL's highest priorities. That's Tara Antonipillai, who is serving this year as our Chair of Well-Being Week in Law. — Transcript: Chris Newbold:  Hello and welcome to this special edition of the Path to Well-Being in Law podcast. My name is Chris Newbold and I'm here with my co-host Bree Buchanan. Bree, how's it going?  Bree Buchanan:  Great, Chris. How are you?  Chris Newbold:  Good. I'm actually pretty excited actually because we are on the cusp of one of IWIL's most notable programming events of the year, Well-Being Week in Law, and we have a very special guest with us today to talk about one of IWIL's highest priorities. That's Tara Antonipillai, who is serving this year as our Chair of Well-Being Week in Law. Tara, how's it going?  Tara Antonipillai:  I'm great. Thanks for having me, Chris and Bree. It's nice to be here.  Chris Newbold:  Yeah. So let's first of all get right to the dates. Tara, when are we queued up to go on Well-Being Week in Law for 2023?  Tara Antonipillai:  Well, Well-Being Week in Law is exactly two weeks away. So it's May 1st through the 5th, 2023, Monday through Friday.  Bree Buchanan:  And what amazes me is that this is our fourth annual, boy as time go by. So tell us, Tara, is how this week is structured, how is it set up?  Tara Antonipillai:  Sure. So just a little bit of background. Well-Being Week in Law occurs the first week of May to launch Mental Health Awareness Month. So it is meant to focus on folks in the legal profession who may be struggling with mental health and alcohol use disorders, but also on those that while not dealing with a diagnosable illness, may not be fully thriving in their work in their life. So the aim of this is really to raise awareness about mental health and encourage action and innovation across our profession. So the week is structured in themes. So each day has a theme and as you look through it, you can see Monday is physical wellbeing, Tuesday is spiritual wellbeing, Wednesday is career or work wellbeing. Thursday is social wellbeing and Friday is emotional wellbeing.  Bree Buchanan:  Wonderful.  Chris Newbold:  I was going to say, one of the things that I think is really awesome about this particular week, and I want to give a lot of credit to the founder of this particular week, and that was Anne Bradford back several years ago. She said, "Listen, if we can get a date on the calendar in which we can shine the light on wellbeing as an issue, we can organize around that. We can talk about issues, we can set out the welcome mat, so to speak, to organizations, law firms and individuals to advance the dialogue." And it certainly feels, Tara, like that concept has really worked and worked well. And we continue to see growth in this opportunity.  Tara Antonipillai:  That is definitely true. I mean, we owe a huge debt to Ann for both the idea and also for the structure and many, many of the resources that serve as the foundation for Well-Being Week in Law. She put a tremendous amount of her intellectual capabilities and her really just her hard work into this and so to build it into what it is today. And I think we should be thankful to her and I think she's very happy to see what Well-Being Week in Law has become.  Bree Buchanan:  And Tara, one of the things that is so amazing about this... Well, two things. It's free for everybody, but also the amount of resources that are available on our website, lawyerwellbeing.net. Can you talk a little bit about what some of those resources are and how people can have their own Well-Being Week in Law?  Tara Antonipillai:  Yeah, for sure. So the way that we have set up the website is so that really it's a hub for folks to plan their own Well-Being Week in Law if you happen to be inside an organization or if you are an indivi

    19 min
  4. 06/04/2023

    Path to Well-Being in Law – Episode 27: Nathalie Cadieux

    In the latest episode of the podcast, Chris and Bree sit down with Professor Nathalie Cadieux, Ph.D. with the University of Montreal, a specialist on the mental health of professionals in a regulated profession, to learn more about her national research project on the mental health of Canadian lawyers. Transcript:  Chris Newbold: Hello, wellbeing friends and welcome to the Path to Wellbeing and Law Podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Wellbeing In Law. My name is Chris Newbold, I'm executive vice president of ALPS Malpractice Insurance. And we're excited to kick off our 2023 menu of speakers. And as most of you know, our goal here on the podcast has always been to introduce you to thought leaders doing meaningful work in the wellbeing space and within the legal profession. And in the process build and nurture a network of wellbeing advocates intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. And I have, am always excited to introduce my co-host, Bree Buchanan. Bree, how are you doing? Bree Buchanan: I'm doing great, Chris. And I will just say even better that now I am immediate past president of I-Well presently. Chris Newbold: Kind of exciting news for us on the institute front that after two really incredible launch years for the Institute for Wellbeing and Law, Bree Buchanan was our president and in many respects also our executive director. And she was the one who steered us to just an incredible launch of the organization. And I know on behalf of our board of directors, Bree, a heartfelt thank you for that commitment. You're not going anywhere and I know that you're going to be actively engaged as we continue to move ourselves forward. But again, it's been a real honor watching Bree lead this movement in the United States. And I know again, her contributions, there are many on the horizon sure to come. Bree Buchanan: Thank you, Chris. That's so kind. Chris Newbold: Yeah. Bree Buchanan: It was a pleasure. Chris Newbold: And so the other part of that is then who did the baton go to? And, Bree, do you want to drop that news? Bree Buchanan: Absolutely. And so I looking at who would be the best person. We brought along, I reached out to Chris and he was gracious enough to agree to take the baton from me. And so I've gladly passed that on. And Chris is just the right person, the right leader at this time as we really start to develop a long-term vision. And that's something. He is a visionary and that's something that he's really great at doing. So after two years it was time to have a switch of leadership. And so Chris has stepped into that place, my podcast co-host. And I'm really excited about what the future holds. Chris Newbold: And again, it's an exciting time for us. Bree was really visionary in getting all of our leaders together back in August to kind of launch a strategic plan for us. And, Bree, I think it's safe to say that the pillars that we created in terms of the areas that we wanted to focus our work. And just want to take a quick minute to ensure that all of our wellbeing advocates are aware of where that's going. We've done such a great job I think on the raising of education and awareness around wellbeing. In fact, this is a perfect time to make a plug for our upcoming Wellbeing in Law Week, which is set for May 1st through the 5th this year. Again, contact us at I-Well, if you're interested in plugging into what will be just a fantastic menu of activities going on each day during that week. So education and awareness. I know, Bree, you've been very vocal about our need to continue to be a strong voice, particularly when we think about systemic opportunities for change in favor of wellbeing. And so we're looking at amplifying our advocacy voice. We're definitely also looking at on our strategic plan, the ability, which is the focal point of our podcast today. Which is elevating our research and the data accumulation to understand where the opportunities are, how we outline our priori

    55 min
  5. 11/10/2022

    Path to Well-Being in Law – Episode 26: Jennifer DiSanza

    Transcript: CHRIS NEWBOLD: Good afternoon, well-being friends. Welcome to the Path To Well-Being In Law, an initiative of the Institute For Well-Being In Law. I'm your cohost, Chris Newbold, executive vice president of ALPS Malpractice Insurance. Most of our listeners know why we're here. Our goal is to introduce you to thought leaders doing meaningful work in the well-being space within the legal profession. And in the process, we're working to build and nurture a national network of well-being advocates intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. Let me be the first to introduce my co-host, Bree Buchanan. Bree, how are you? BREE BUCHANAN: I'm doing great, Chris, thank you. I am so excited, you know, about this episode because we have just increased our staff at IWIL. I'll let you finish, but I'm just excited. CHRIS: Well, I was going to say that there's a couple notable things about this, right? Bree, you and I have been at this for least going well beyond five years now, but a couple things that I think are really unique about this particular podcast, first of all, our 25th podcast. I'm totally excited about just the incredible people that we have met on this journey. It's a reflection point, so to speak. I just think it's been a great ride for us as we've introduced people from around the country and welcome in new listeners to the podcast. BREE: Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. CHRIS: It has. And then I think the big point and I think maybe a little bit of historical perspective is good to share with the listeners today that obviously the Institute for Well-being in Law started now just over 18 months ago. Really the intent was as a natural outgrowth of the National Task Force on Well-Being in Law was that we wanted to look toward a greater level of sustainability for the movement. Bree and I and many other leaders in the movement got together and we ultimately decided that the creation of the institute as a national think tank to be able to work and lead efforts on a national basis was the move. CHRIS: A lot of that was with the intent of being able to hire a full-time professional staff that could work on this issue, not just for the short-term, but for the long-term. Again, without further ado, we are super excited about today's guest, which is our friend Jennifer DiSanza, who is the first executive director of the Institute for Well-Being in Law. I know that we are really excited to introduce her to our listeners, talk about the vision, talk about where the organization's going, talk about her own personal journey as it relates to well-being. CHRIS: Bree, why don't I kick it to you for an introduction of somebody who I think will be a pivotal leader, spokesperson. I know she's thoughtful. Again, we're just super excited to have Jennifer on board. BREE: I'm going to let Jennifer talk about her background, but I'm going to talk about as way of introduction how we got her to us. Like you said, there was this whole plan of how we were performing IWIL and then be able to fundraise and then be able to hire staff, and Jennifer's the first one of that. We went out and did a national search, really cast the net wide and far. We had over 80 applications to the position. It took us a good number of months to go through all of those, many interviews. Ultimately, I'd say at least it was a six month search process, we found our Jennifer DiSanza. Jennifer, we're finally going to let you talk now. JENNIFER DISANZA: I have to say, after that introduction, I feel like an athlete, like I should have had play on music or I should have some theme music, because that was quite the introduction. Thank you, both. BREE: It was really a buildup. What I was thinking is that in the old radio shows that they had the button you could hit with the applause. All that too. JENNIFER: I heard it all in my head, Bree, so it was good. But no, I appreciate both of you so much. It was a long process, but one o

    34 min
  6. 04/10/2022

    Path to Well-Being in Law – Episode 25: Helen Wan

    Today, on the Path to Well-Being in Law podcast, co-hosts Bree and Chris hear from Helen Wan, a lawyer and the author of the 2013 novel, The Partner Track, which just launched as a new TV series on Netflix. On this episode, Helen discusses her journey towards writing her novel, how to get other stories told, and how getting senior leadership to show up for important discussions on inclusiveness and equity can shift a firm's culture from one of competition to one of community. Transcript:  CHRIS NEWBOLD: Hello, well-being friends. Welcome to the Path To Well-Being In Law Podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being in Law. I am joined again by my great co-host, Bree Buchanan. My name is Chris Newbold, Executive Vice President of ALPS. Bree, I'm pretty excited about our guest today. How about you? BREE BUCHANAN: I know. We've got somebody who's really famous. CHRIS: That's right. That's right. It's always great to bring... I think it's fair to say that the legal profession in general, perceptions of it can be driven by media, television, movies, books. And I think that we are super excited to have a guest today that is really kind of sharing her novel was the basis for a Netflix series that is pretty popular right now. And so our guest today is Helen Wan. And Bree, if you could quickly talk a little bit about Helen and who she is. BREE: Absolutely. I would love to. And Chris, when you were talking about the history of portrayal of law in the media, I first thought of Legally Blonde. CHRIS: Yeah, Yeah. I always think of L.A. Law, right? Again, these are not oftentimes real perceptions of the legal profession, but the reality is people, particularly folks considering law school and other things, I think it does have, even going back to the old Perry Mason days. I think it does actually have folks look at the law through the lens, and I think the media creates some of that lens. So that's why I think this will be a really fun conversation, particularly given Helen's, the subject matter that she tackled based upon her own personal experience. BREE: I know, and I think of Helen creating this lens through which so many up-and-coming law students may see the profession. So enough about you, me, Chris. Let me talk about Helen. Helen Wan is an author and a lawyer and a graduate of Amherst College and the University of Virginia School of Law. She's the author of the 2013 novel, the Partner Track, which just launched as a new TV series on Netflix. Incredibly exciting. It's the story of an Asian American woman and her law colleagues as they compete in the culture of a prestigious global law firm. The book is taught in colleges and law schools and first-year seminars and ethics courses, and is used by law firms and companies in dialogues about DEI. And the book is being translated into several languages, including Turkish. I just think that's so interesting that partner track began as subway scribblings on a legal pad when Helen was a first-year associate at a large New York law firm. She writes primarily about how race, gender, socioeconomic, class, and culture impact am ambition in our pursuit of happiness, and I will add wellbeing. And Helen has written for the Washington Post. In fact, she has appeared on the cover of the Washington Post magazine, CNN.com, The Daily Beast and The Huffington Post among others. Before becoming a writer, Helen practiced media and intellectual property law in New York, both at law firms and as an in-house council. At the time, Inc. Division of Time Warner, Inc., A&E television networks and the Hachette Book Group USA. You could follow her on Twitter, @HelenWan1, the number one, and visit her website, at HelenWan.com. Helen, we will now let you speak. How are you? Welcome to the podcast. HELEN WAN: Hello. Thank you both for having me. It's really a pleasure to be here. BREE: Yeah, it's so great. And so Helen, I'm going to jump in and ask you just the question that we really like to start

    41 min
  7. 10/08/2022

    Path to Well-Being in Law - Episode 24: Kori Carew

    CHRIS NEWBOLD: Hello, wellbeing friends. Welcome to the Path To Well-Being In Law Podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being in Law. As you know, my name is Chris Newbold. I serve as executive vice president of ALPS Malpractice Insurance. You know, our goal here on the podcast is to introduce you to thought leaders doing meaningful work in the wellbeing space within the legal profession, and in the process, build and nurture a national network of wellbeing advocates intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. As always, I am joined by my co-host, Bree Buchanan. Bree, how are you doing today? BREE BUCHANAN: I'm doing great, Chris. Great to be here. CHRIS: Good, good. As you all know, Bree is the president of the Institute for Well-Being in Law. Bree, we have some really exciting news to share about the institute and the journey that we're on to engineer this culture shift. Would you maybe give us a clue as to the breaking news that I think that we were so excited about? BREE: Nobody could be more excited than me because you said, you know, Bree is the board president. Well, up until this news, I had two jobs. I was the acting executive director, so I am just delighted to let people know we have hired our first full-time staff person and that is our inaugural executive director. Her name is Jennifer DiSanza. She comes to us with a whole host of experience in wellbeing issues and particularly with the law students. For many reasons, we wanted to bring Jennifer on board, but also strategically, we really realized that's where she's coming from is the future of our profession. And also, aside of where we know there's a lot of behavioral health distress and stress on the youngest members of our profession and the law students. So we're just thrilled to have Jennifer on board. CHRIS: Yeah. See, I had the privilege of serving with you Bree on the hiring committee. Boy, we have a dynamic leader now that will be working day-to-day to think about advancing wellbeing in our profession. You know, there's so much work to be done as you well know. We're actually planning on having Jennifer as our next podcast guest, which will be awesome to be able to just talk about the vision, why she's passionate about this work. It will also happen to be after the conclusion of some strategic planning that we as a board will be doing. So things are just really aligning well with both what has transpired, where we're going, and then focusing on what lies ahead in terms of some big issues that we have to tackle as we think about the wellbeing of lawyers and legal professionals in the profession. With that, today we're going to circle back to, we've spent considerable time in the area of diversity, equity, and inclusion. You know, we had anticipated a three part series on this, but sometimes you extend an offer and you get somebody who's so awesome that you sit there and go, we have to expand this even further. Right? BREE: Along came Kori. Yeah. CHRIS: That's right. Along came Kori. And when Kori came along, we're like, okay, we're breaking the rules. We're totally bringing Kori into the mix. And so we were really excited to welcome Kori Carew to the podcast. Bree, would you be so kind to introduce Kori? And again, this is I know a podcast that we've been very excited and looking forward to. BREE: Absolutely. So Kori is a people inclusion strategist, an advocate, a speaker, a writer, a status quo disruptor. Got to love that. Child of God, wife and mother of two curly-haired, wise, energetic, fierce, spitfire daughters. Her family is multi-ethnic, multi-racial, multi-religious and spans multiple nationalities. She brings a fierce love of community and belonging that transcends differences to work, ministry and life. She loves to sing, cook, entertain, dance in the hallways at work, we need a video component of that, and read. Equipping leaders to be inclusive, to interrupt bias and disrupt the status quo. At her day job

    57 min
  8. 31/05/2022

    Path to Well-Being in Law - Episode 23: Manar Morales

    Chris Newbold: Hello, wellbeing friends. Welcome to the Path To Well-Being in Law podcast, an initiative of the Institute for Well-Being in Law. I'm your co-host Chris Newbold, executive vice president of ALPS Malpractice Insurance. As most of you know, this is the place that we are welcoming advocates and activists in the wellbeing space, all intent on building and nurturing and national network of folks intent on creating a culture shift within the profession. Very exciting that we are about to wrap up our third installment of kind of a mini series on the interconnectedness of diversity, equity and inclusion and wellbeing. And I'm always thrilled to introduce my co-host Bree. Bree, how's it going? Bree: It's going great, Chris. So glad to be here with you as all always. And I'm going to go ahead and start off with our introduction of our guests today. So Manar Morales is a national expert on women's leadership diversity and workplace flexibility. She serves as president and CEO of the Diversity and Flexibility Alliance. She's a frequent speaker on workplace topics, such as flexibility, diversity, inclusion, women's leadership and individual strategies for success. Prior to founding this Alliance, she served as the ed for the project for attorney retention. And in that position, she led all of their initiatives, programs and operations. And we certainly know that attorney retention is a huge issue right now. Bree: She played an integral role in forming the diversity and flexibility connection, a series of discussions between prominent general counsel and law firm chairs, leading to best practices for the retention of diverse attorneys, including those working on flex schedules. She began her career as an employment litigator, representing clients in all aspects of labor relations and employment law, and has experienced litigation experience in federal courts and agencies as well as an arbitration. She's also served as an adjunct faculty member of Georgetown University has taught classes in labor, employment law and entrepreneurship. So Manar, welcome today. We're so glad to have you with us. Manar Morales: Thank you Bree. Thank you, Chris. I'm excited to be in conversation with both of you today. Bree: Absolutely. And so Manar, I'm going to start you off with a question that we asked just about everybody that comes on our podcast. And if you could talk about, what are some of the experiences in your life that are drivers behind your very evident passion for work in this space and the work and looking at the diversity, flexibility and its intersection with wellbeing? Manar Morales: Yeah. I would say that my work with flexibility really came out both of a personal, a very personal story with it as well as then a professional passion for it. I started when I was an employment litigator 21 years ago, almost 21 years ago that I had my first son and started to think about wanting to go on a reduced hour schedule at that time, which wasn't really prevalent at that time. And the experience that I had where it wasn't really thought that I could continue to be a litigator and continue to go reduced hours. And so it really came out of this experience of having to create my own path where I could continue to do what I was passionate about, which at the time was litigation and continue to do what I wanted to do in my personal life. Manar Morales: So over time I developed that career for myself and that path for myself, where I could do things like I could teach and I could... I found a firm where I could continue to litigate and also be reduced hours. And what happened over time was that women then would come up to me and say, well, if I could have done it the way that you did it, I wouldn't have left. And it really began me down this path of why can't we create an environment where more people could do that. And I really felt like for me, it was out of necessity to pull together what I wanted and what I viewed and what I call

    43 min

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