GOTO - The Brightest Minds in Tech

GOTO
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The GOTO podcast seeks out the brightest and boldest ideas from language creators and the world's leading experts in software development in the form of interviews and conference talks. Tune in to get the inspiration you need to bring in new technologies or gain extra evidence to support your software development plan.

  1. The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract • Marcin Grzejszczak & Jakub Pilimon

    1D AGO

    The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract • Marcin Grzejszczak & Jakub Pilimon

    This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. https://gotopia.tech Marcin Grzejszczak - Software Engineer at HeroDevs & Java Champion Jakub Pilimon - Software Architect at jPilo & Software Consultant at Bottega IT Minds ORIGINAL TALK TITLE The Typo That Broke Production — And Accidentally Created Spring Cloud Contract Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/435 RESOURCES Marcin https://bsky.app/profile/toomuchcoding.com https://mastodon.social/@toomuchcoding@fosstodon.org https://twitter.com/MGrzejszczak https://github.com/marcingrzejszczak https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcin-grzejszczak-15565119 https://toomuchcoding.com Jakub https://twitter.com/JakubPilimon https://github.com/pilloPl https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakub-pilimon-449b7984 http://pillopl.github.io Links https://toomuchcoding.com/post https://martinfowler.com/articles/consumerDrivenContracts.html https://www.tomakehurst.com DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Unscripted episode, Jakub Pilimon sits down with Marcin Grzejszczak — Java Champion, Spring Cloud Contract contributor, author, mentor, and founder of a rural housewives' circle (yes, really) — to trace a 15+ year career that went from C++ on the Côte d'Azur to becoming one of the key architects of Spring Cloud Contract and the Micrometer Observation API. Marcin shares how real production pain — a junior dev fixing a typo in an API that silently broke every client — gave birth to what would become Spring Cloud Contract, and how he's never shy about calling out his own embarrassing code (complete with a Javadoc that opens with "I'm sorry"). The conversation pivots sharply into 2025 territory, with Marcin sketching out an AI-powered future for contract testing: instead of manually writing contracts (which developers routinely abandon), capture live production traffic, let AI generate the contracts, and let humans do what they're actually good at — reviewing and approving. Wrapping up with observability, Marcin argues the most underrated pillar isn't logs, metrics, or traces — it's context. Without knowing why something happened (a deployment, a business event), raw telemetry data is just noise. Practical, honest, and occasionally self-deprecating: a thoroughly human conversation in the age of AI. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Marcin Grzejszczak • Mockito Cookbook • https://amzn.to/4rXOrtf Marcin Grzejszczak • Instant Mockito • https://amzn.to/4lV2ePQ Sam Newman • Building Microservices • https://amzn.to/3dMPbOs Sam Newman • Monolith to Microservices • https://amzn.to/2Nml96E Roy Osherove • The Art of Unit Testing • https://bit.ly/3obiKNB Charity Majors, Liz Fong-Jones & George Miranda • Observability Engineering • https://amzn.to/38scbma Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    31 min
  2. Learning API Styles • Lukasz Dynowski & Sam Newman

    5D AGO

    Learning API Styles • Lukasz Dynowski & Sam Newman

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Lukasz Dynowski - Independent Consultant & Co-Author of "Learning API Styles" Sam Newman - Author of "Building Microservices" & "Monolith to Microservices" Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/436 RESOURCES Lukasz https://github.com/ludyn-leo https://www.linkedin.com/in/ldynia https://learningapistyles.com Sam https://twitter.com/samnewman https://github.com/snewman https://www.linkedin.com/in/samnewman http://samnewman.io http://samnewman.io/blog Links https://www.youtube.com/@ldynia1 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRkB-vSK4koOHYIhpKXuXpipVpByEKuPu https://learningapistyles.com https://github.com/ldynia/learning-api-styles https://nordicapis.com/the-bezos-api-mandate-amazons-manifesto-for-externalization https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1176617.1176622 DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Book Club episode, Sam Newman — author of "Building Microservices" — sits down with Lukasz Dynowski, co-author of "Learning API Styles", for a refreshingly low-level deep dive into a subject most developers think they already understand. The book deliberately starts from the network layer up — transmission modes, TCP, protocol stacks — rather than jumping straight to REST and GraphQL, because, as Lukasz explains, most API problems only become visible when you understand the substrate beneath them. The conversation covers the full spectrum: public vs internal APIs, the Bezos API Mandate moment, why treating your API as a product is non-negotiable, and why the choice between binary and textual protocols is never as obvious as performance benchmarks suggest. The real gold comes in two moments. First, Lukasz lays out a crisp checklist for what makes a good API — audience-awareness, maintainability, efficiency, intuitiveness, resilience, security, testability, and documentation that actually matches behavior. Second, Sam shares a war story about a credit derivative system where the only way to figure out who was accessing the database was to turn off the credentials and wait for angry phone calls. The lesson: context shapes every trade-off, there's no universal right answer between REST, gRPC, WebSockets, or messaging, and the best API decision is the one that fits your situation — not the one that fits the conference talk. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Lukasz Dynowski • Learning API Styles • https://amzn.to/3PFembK Sam Newman • Building Resilient Distributed Systems • https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/building-resilient-distributed/9781098163532 Sam Newman • Monolith to Microservices • https://amzn.to/2Nml96E Sam Newman • Building Microservices • https://amzn.to/3dMPbOs Ronnie Mitra & Irakli Nadareishvili • Microservices: Up and Running• https://amzn.to/3c4HmmL Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    32 min
  3. A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • Jay Wengrow & Kris Jenkins

    APR 28

    A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • Jay Wengrow & Kris Jenkins

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Jay Wengrow - Author of “A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering” & CEO of Actualize Kris Jenkins - Lifelong Computer Geek and Podcast Host RESOURCES Jay https://x.com/jaywengrow https://github.com/jaywengrow https://www.linkedin.com/in/jaywengrow https://www.commonsensedev.com Kris https://bsky.app/profile/krisajenkins.bsky.social https://twitter.com/krisajenkins https://www.linkedin.com/in/krisjenkins https://github.com/krisajenkins http://blog.jenkster.com DESCRIPTION In this GOTO Book Club episode, host Kris Jenkins sits down with Jay Wengrow — founder of coding bootcamp Actualize and author of the bestselling Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms — to dig into his latest book, A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering. Jay demystifies how AI agents actually work: at heart, they're a clever hack where your code intercepts an LLM's text output, watches for special notation, and triggers real functions when it spots them. From there, the conversation expands into guardrails (regex, judge LLMs, and specialist ML models), multi-agent architectures for complex tasks, and a hands-on example of a 150-line podcast-generating app built entirely from scratch — no framework required. The real throughline is a pragmatic, sceptical take on the current AI tooling landscape. Jay argues that frameworks can lock you into patterns that haven't been proven yet, and that the field is too new to know which abstractions are genuinely worth having. His rule of thumb: reach for a framework only when it will do something meaningfully better than you can — not just faster. The book was deliberately written around fundamentals rather than specific tools, so it ages well even as the ecosystem moves at breakneck speed. The conclusion is refreshingly grounded: understand the LLM's inherent limitations, build the middle layer thoughtfully, and don't outsource your system prompts to anyone — or anything. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to AI Engineering • https://pragprog.com/titles/jwpaieng Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms • https://amzn.to/4bPiTjd Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures & Algorithms in Python • https://amzn.to/3PpwtlT Jay Wengrow • A Common-Sense Guide to Data Structures and Algorithms in JavaScript • https://amzn.to/4dDSZBl Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    27 min
  4. Beyond the Hype: What AI Actually Can (and Can't) Do • Jodie Burchell & Michelle Frost

    APR 24

    Beyond the Hype: What AI Actually Can (and Can't) Do • Jodie Burchell & Michelle Frost

    This interview was recorded for GOTO Unscripted. https://gotopia.tech Jodie Burchell - Senior Data Science Developer Advocate at JetBrains Michelle Frost - AI Advocate at JetBrains Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/articles/431 RESOURCES Jodie https://bsky.app/profile/t-redactyl.bsky.social https://fosstodon.org/@t_redactyl https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodieburchell https://github.com/t-redactyl https://t-redactyl.io Michelle https://bsky.app/profile/aiwithmichelle.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/michelle-frost-dev https://aiwithmichelle.com Links https://www.youtube.com/@Asianometry https://arxiv.org/abs/1911.01547 https://softwareengineeringproductivity.stanford.edu DESCRIPTION Michelle Frost and Jodie Burchell - both developer advocates at JetBrains — sit down for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about the state of AI. Drawing on Jodie's unusual path from clinical psychology to biostatistics to NLP, and Michelle's background in machine learning fairness and AI ethics consulting, the two offer a measured, research-grounded perspective on generative AI's real capabilities and limitations. They trace historical parallels between today's AI boom and earlier 'AI summers,' unpack the contested definitions of AI and AGI, make the case for why foundational machine learning knowledge still matters, and examine what the evidence actually says about AI's impact on developer productivity. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Mark Coeckelbergh • AI Ethics • https://amzn.to/3SuXUbY Debbie Sue Jancis • AI Ethics • https://amzn.to/44yuEbR Alex Castrounis • AI for People and Business • https://amzn.to/3NYKKTo Phil Winder • Reinforcement Learning • https://amzn.to/3t1S1VZ Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    30 min
  5. Kubernetes at the Edge • Charles Humble & Hannah Foxwell

    APR 21

    Kubernetes at the Edge • Charles Humble & Hannah Foxwell

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/432 Hannah Foxwell - Independent Consultant & Founder of "AI for the rest of us" Charles Humble - Freelance Techie, Podcaster, Editor, Author & Consultant RESOURCES Charles https://bsky.app/profile/charleshumble.bsky.social https://linkedin.com/in/charleshumble https://mastodon.social/@charleshumble https://conissaunce.com Hannah https://bsky.app/profile/hannahfoxwell.net https://medium.com/@hannahfoxwell https://x.com/HannahFoxwell https://github.com/hannahfoxwell https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-foxwell Links https://conissaunce.com/services.html https://www.aifortherestofus.co/newsletter https://conissaunce.com/music.html https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd0ynenr1eno DESCRIPTION Hannah Foxwell sits down with Charles Humble - speaker, advisor, podcast host, and author - to explore his e-book "Kubernetes at the Edge". They cover what "edge computing" actually means, why it matters across industries from precision agriculture to healthcare and retail, how to approach vendor selection and day-two operations, and why sustainability must be central to how we build and deploy technology. The conversation closes with a frank and thoughtful discussion about the responsibilities of the tech industry in the age of generative AI. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Charles Humble • Kubernetes at the Edge • https://www.conissaunce.com/kubernetes-edge-ebook Charles Humble • Professional Skills for Software Engineers • https://conissaunce.com/professional-skills-shortcut Charles Humble • The Developer's Guide to Cloud Infrastructure, Efficiency & Sustainability • https://conissaunce.com/sustainability-ebook Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    1 hr
  6. Every Software Org is Dysfunctional • R. Parsons, G. Hohpe, B. O'Reilly & A. Harmel-Law

    APR 17

    Every Software Org is Dysfunctional • R. Parsons, G. Hohpe, B. O'Reilly & A. Harmel-Law

    This presentation was recorded at GOTO Copenhagen 2025. https://gotocph.com Rebecca Parsons - CTO Emerita at Thoughtworks Gregor Hohpe - Author of "Platform Strategy", "The Software Architect Elevator", et al. Barry O'Reilly - Founder at Black Tulip Tech and Author of "Residues" & "The Architect's Paradox" Andrew Harmel-Law - Technical Principal at Thoughtworks & Author of "Facilitating Software Architecture" RESOURCES Rebecca https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebecca-parsons-871491 https://twitter.com/rebeccaparsons Gregor https://twitter.com/ghohpe https://www.linkedin.com/in/ghohpe http://eaipatterns.com https://architectelevator.com Barry https://bsky.app/profile/technologytulip.bsky.social https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-o-reilly-b924657 https://www.blacktulip.se Andrew https://bsky.app/profile/andrewhl.bsky.social https://twit.social/@ahl https://x.com/al94781 https://github.com/andrewharmellaw https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewharmellaw https://andrewharmellaw.github.io ABSTRACT Speakers interview each other on topics that matter to them. [...] Read the full abstract here: https://gotocph.com/2025/sessions/3782 RECOMMENDED BOOKS Ford, Parsons, Kua & Sadalage  • Building Evolutionary Architectures 2nd Edition • https://amzn.to/3lqr5Q8 Gregor Hohpe • Platform Strategy • https://amzn.to/4cxfYdb Gregor Hohpe • The Software Architect Elevator • https://amzn.to/3F6d2ax Barry O'Reilly • Residues • https://leanpub.com/residuality Barry O'Reilly • The Architect's Paradox • https://leanpub.com/architectsparadox Andrew Harmel-Law • Facilitating Software Architecture • https://amzn.eu/d/5kZKVfU Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    45 min
  7. Software Security for Developers • Laur Spilca & Thomas Vitale

    APR 14

    Software Security for Developers • Laur Spilca & Thomas Vitale

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/428 Laurenţiu Spilcă - Java Champion, Java Community Lead at Endava & Author of "Software Security for Developers" & more books Thomas Vitale - Senior Software Architect at Systematic & Author of "Cloud Native Spring in Action" RESOURCES Laur https://bsky.app/profile/laurspilca.bsky.social https://x.com/laurspilca https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurenţiu-spilcă-01a931107 https://laurspilca.com Thomas https://bsky.app/profile/thomasvitale.com https://mastodon.online/@thomasvitale https://twitter.com/vitalethomas https://linkedin.com/in/vitalethomas https://github.com/ThomasVitale https://www.thomasvitale.com Links https://www.manning.com/books/software-security-for-developers https://adibsaikali.wordpress.com DESCRIPTION Thomas Vitale sits down with Java Champion and author Laurentiu Spilca to discuss his co-authored book "Software Security for Developers". The conversation explores why security is so often avoided by developers, the widespread confusion between foundational concepts like encoding, hashing, and encryption, the dangers of reinventing established security standards, the growing risks of AI-generated code written without security awareness, and why understanding topics like PKI and certificates is more important than ever in modern software development. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Adib Saikali & Laurentiu Spilca • Software Security for Developers • https://amzn.to/4aPhqu0 Laurentiu Spilca • Spring, Start Here • https://amzn.to/3L6Sv6c Laurentiu Spilca • Spring Security in Action • https://amzn.to/3LqEkZW Laurentiu Spilca • Troubleshooting Java • https://amzn.to/4u5vkj0 Thomas Vitale • Cloud Native Spring in Action • https://amzn.to/3kLu1ns Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    30 min
  8. Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches • Elton Stoneman & Bret Fisher

    APR 10

    Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches • Elton Stoneman & Bret Fisher

    This interview was recorded for the GOTO Book Club. http://gotopia.tech/bookclub Check out more here: https://gotopia.tech/episodes/428 Elton Stoneman - Freelance Consultant, Trainer & Author of "Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches" Bret Fisher - Docker Captain, Cloud Native Ambassador, Course Creator, YouTuber & Podcaster RESOURCES Elton https://bsky.app/profile/eltonstoneman.bsky.social https://x.com/EltonStoneman https://github.com/sixeyed https://www.linkedin.com/in/eltonstoneman https://blog.sixeyed.com Bret https://bsky.app/profile/bretfisher.com https://x.com/BretFisher https://github.com/BretFisher https://www.linkedin.com/in/bretefisher https://www.bretfisher.com/start https://www.bretfisher.com Links Get 45% discount on Manning products with code: GOTOstoneman3 https://www.manning.com https://blog.sixeyed.com/why-would-you-write-a-book-about-docker-in-2025 https://12factor.net DESCRIPTION In this conversation, Docker educator Brett Fisher sits down with Elton Stoneman - freelance consultant, former Docker employee, and author of "Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches" — to discuss the newly released second edition of his book. They cover what has changed in the container ecosystem over the last five years, why Docker fundamentals still matter even as Kubernetes dominates production environments, and what separates a Docker beginner from a true expert. RECOMMENDED BOOKS Elton Stoneman • Learn Docker in a Month of Lunches • https://amzn.to/4kJVSSD Elton Stoneman • Learn Kubernetes in a Month of Lunches • https://amzn.to/4qKjate Elton Stoneman • Docker on Windows • https://amzn.to/4cD6kJD Burns, Beda & Hightower • Kubernetes: Up & Running • https://amzn.to/3sueuuI Liz Rice • Container Security • https://amzn.to/3oU4iJe Liz Rice • Kubernetes Security • https://www.oreilly.com/library/view/kubernetes-security/9781492039075 Bluesky Instagram LinkedIn Facebook CHANNEL MEMBERSHIP BONUS Join this channel to get early access to videos & other perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCs_tLP3AiwYKwdUHpltJPuA/join Looking for a unique learning experience? Attend the next GOTO conference near you! Get your ticket: gotopia.tech SUBSCRIBE TO OUR YOUTUBE CHANNEL - new videos posted daily!

    28 min
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4.7
out of 5
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The GOTO podcast seeks out the brightest and boldest ideas from language creators and the world's leading experts in software development in the form of interviews and conference talks. Tune in to get the inspiration you need to bring in new technologies or gain extra evidence to support your software development plan.

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