155 episodes

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years.
The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis Turpentine

    • Technology

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years.
The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

    Guaranteed Safe AI? World Models, Safety Specs, & Verifiers, with Nora Ammann & Ben Goldhaber

    Guaranteed Safe AI? World Models, Safety Specs, & Verifiers, with Nora Ammann & Ben Goldhaber

    Nathan explores the Guaranteed Safe AI Framework with co-authors Ben Goldhaber and Nora Ammann. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we discuss their groundbreaking position paper on ensuring robust and reliable AI systems. Join us for an in-depth conversation about the three-part system governing AI behavior and its potential impact on the future of AI safety.
    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Complex Systems
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:
    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive
    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR
    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/
    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:
    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:04:39) Introduction
    (00:07:58) Convergence
    (00:10:32) Safety guarantees
    (00:14:35) World model (Part 1)
    (00:22:22) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:24:31) World model (Part 2)
    (00:26:55) AI boxing
    (00:30:28) Verifier
    (00:33:33) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:35:20) Example: Self-Driving Cars
    (00:38:08) Moral Desiderata
    (00:41:09) Trolley Problems
    (00:47:24) How to approach the world model
    (00:50:50) Deriving the world model
    (00:55:13) How far should the world model extend?
    (01:00:55) Safety through narrowness
    (01:02:38) Safety specs
    (01:08:26) Experiments
    (01:11:25) How GSAI can help in the short term
    (01:27:40) What would be the basis for the world model?
    (01:31:23) Interpretability
    (01:34:24) Competitive dynamics
    (01:37:35) Regulation
    (01:42:02) GSAI authors
    (01:43:25) Outro

    • 1 hr 46 min
    The ARC Prize: Efficiency, Intuition, and AGI, with Mike Knoop, co-founder of Zapier

    The ARC Prize: Efficiency, Intuition, and AGI, with Mike Knoop, co-founder of Zapier

    Nathan interviews Mike Knoop, co-founder of Zapier and co-creator of the ARC Prize, about the $1 million competition for more efficient AI architectures. They discuss the ARC AGI benchmark, its implications for general intelligence, and the potential impact on AI safety. Nathan reflects on the challenges of intuitive problem-solving in AI and considers hybrid approaches to AGI development.

    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-systems-with-patrick-mckenzie-patio11/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:

    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive
    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR

    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:

    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:06:06) The ARC Benchmark
    (00:09:34) Other Benchmarks
    (00:10:58) Definition of AGI
    (00:14:38) The rules of the contest
    (00:18:16) ARC test set (Part 1)
    (00:18:23) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:20:31) ARC test set (Part 2)
    (00:22:50) Stair-stepping benchmarks
    (00:26:17) ARC Prize
    (00:28:34) The rules of the ARC Prize
    (00:31:12) Compute costs (Part 1)
    (00:34:47) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:36:34) Compute costs (Part 2)
    (00:36:40) Compute Limit
    (00:41:00) Public Leaderboard
    (00:42:58) The current AI ecosystem
    (00:47:23) The four steps of solving a puzzle
    (00:51:20) Intuition
    (00:54:32) Human Intelligence
    (00:56:06) Current Frontier Language Models
    (00:57:44) Program Synthesis
    (01:04:10) Is the model learning or memorizing?
    (01:09:51) Improving the ARC dataset
    (01:11:34) Step 3: Guessing the Rule
    (01:12:51) Dealing with Ambiguity
    (01:15:02) Exploring Solutions
    (01:17:02) Non-backpropagation evolutionary architecture search
    (01:19:49) Expectations for an AGI world
    (01:24:11) Reliability and out of domain generalization
    (01:28:35) What a person would do
    (01:29:51) What is the right generalization
    (01:35:32) The ARC AGI Challenge
    (01:37:01) Postscript
    (01:38:07) DSpi
    (01:39:55) Statespace models
    (01:43:28) Hybrid models
    (01:48:32) FunSearch
    (01:50:41) Kolmogorov-Arnold-Networks
    (01:54:18) Grokking
    (01:55:42) Outro

    • 1 hr 58 min
    A Foundation Model for Food, with Chef Robotics CEO Rajat Bhageria

    A Foundation Model for Food, with Chef Robotics CEO Rajat Bhageria

    Nathan explores the future of food production with Rajat Bhageria, founder and CEO of Chef Robotics. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we delve into how AI and robotics are revolutionizing food assembly, potentially reshaping the entire food industry. Discover insights on imitation learning, data flywheel effects, and the vision of accessible, customizable meals produced by robotic kitchens.

    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:
    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive
    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR
    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/
    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:
    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:02:40) Chef Robotics
    (00:04:09) Food Manufacturing
    (00:06:52) Food assembly
    (00:11:08) Setting up a robot
    (00:14:00) Onboarding process
    (00:18:08) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:20:16) Self fine-tuning
    (00:22:59) Variation in the human powered setting
    (00:29:53) Safety constraints
    (00:32:15) Portfolio of customers
    (00:33:43) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:35:30) Evolution of the AI strategy
    (00:40:14) Generative AI in robotics
    (00:43:27) Eurekas and bootstrapping
    (00:45:43) Time to onboard a new ingredient
    (00:47:15) Inner loops of the system
    (00:49:17) How controlled does the environment have to be?
    (00:52:51) Compute, Energy
    (00:54:12) Reliability
    (00:59:52) Current challenges
    (01:02:47) Humanoid robots
    (01:06:42) Business model
    (01:07:58) Future vision
    (01:11:51) Ghost kitchens and kitchenless houses
    (01:14:35) Final message
    (01:15:49) Outro

    • 1 hr 18 min
    Delving into The Prompt Report, with Sander Schulhoff of LearnPrompting.org

    Delving into The Prompt Report, with Sander Schulhoff of LearnPrompting.org

    Nathan welcomes back Sander Schulhoff, creator of LearnPrompting.org, to discuss the recently released Prompt Report. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we explore the current state of prompting techniques for large language models, covering best practices, challenges, and emerging trends in AI. Join us for an in-depth conversation on the future of prompt engineering and its implications for AI development.

    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:

    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive
    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR

    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:

    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:02:35) Sander Schulhoff, Learn Prompting
    (00:05:22) Hack-a-Prompt updates
    (00:12:39) The team behind the report
    (00:18:40) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:20:48) The tech side of things (Part 2)
    (00:22:24) The taxonomy
    (00:25:06) Diamonds in the rough
    (00:28:32) Few-shot prompting design decisions
    (00:34:01) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:35:48) Example vs. Exemplar
    (00:38:24) Exemplar Format
    (00:42:04) Elaborate Instructions
    (00:44:22) Variation in Performance
    (00:46:46) Prompt Robustness
    (00:50:54) RLHF vs. Base Models
    (00:52:42) How to improve your prompts
    (00:55:22) Ensembling
    (00:58:41) Bootstrapping into fine-tuning
    (01:02:04) Multimodal
    (01:07:41) Agents
    (01:09:47) Automated prompt engineering
    (01:12:35) Productizing learn prompting
    (01:14:28) Lessons from leading a team
    (01:16:00) Outro

    • 1 hr 18 min
    Building an Intelligent Business OS, with Runway CEO Siqi Chen

    Building an Intelligent Business OS, with Runway CEO Siqi Chen

    Nathan interviews Siqi Chen, CEO of Runway, about revolutionizing business finance through AI. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we explore how Runway is creating an intelligent business operating system that generates financial scenarios and explains complex metrics. Siqi shares insights on AI's future impact on finance, business, and society at large.

    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:
    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive
    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR
    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/
    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:
    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:02:45) Runway
    (00:06:11) AI features
    (00:12:10) Defining the syntax
    (00:14:48) How AI has been expressed since GPT-3
    (00:18:32) When did it become clear that the models were getting good enough?
    (00:24:29) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:26:38) How the model is being asked to generate a scenario
    (00:26:38) What will drive the most improvement?
    (00:28:50) How Runway can help you make decisions
    (00:37:47) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:39:34) Runway as a business operating system
    (00:39:51) How does the product work?
    (00:44:31) What does the future hold?
    (00:47:34) The frontier model has passed the average person
    (00:51:18) AI tools for operations
    (00:55:21) How to get the best out of AI models
    (01:00:39) How AI models can write as you
    (01:02:43) AGI, work, and the future
    (01:08:33) AI safety, regulation, and the future
    (01:11:26) Closing thoughts
    (01:12:20) Outro

    • 1 hr 15 min
    The State Space Model Revolution, with Albert Gu

    The State Space Model Revolution, with Albert Gu

    Nathan hosts Albert Gu, assistant professor at CMU and co-founder of Cartesia AI, to discuss the groundbreaking Mamba architecture. In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, we explore the state space model revolution, diving into the technical details of Mamba and Mamba 2. Join us for an insightful conversation on the future of AI architectures and their potential to transform the field.

    Apply to join over 400 founders and execs in the Turpentine Network: https://hmplogxqz0y.typeform.com/to/JCkphVqj

    RECOMMENDED PODCAST:
    Patrick McKenzie (@patio11) talks to experts who understand the complicated but not unknowable systems we rely on. You might be surprised at how quickly Patrick and his guests can put you in the top 1% of understanding for stock trading, tech hiring, and more.
    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3Mos4VE3figVXleHDqfXOH
    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812https://podcasts.apple.com/id1753399812

    SPONSORS:
    Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is a single platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. OCI has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds; offers one consistent price, and nobody does data better than Oracle. If you want to do more and spend less, take a free test drive of OCI at https://oracle.com/cognitive

    The Brave search API can be used to assemble a data set to train your AI models and help with retrieval augmentation at the time of inference. All while remaining affordable with developer first pricing, integrating the Brave search API into your workflow translates to more ethical data sourcing and more human representative data sets. Try the Brave search API for free for up to 2000 queries per month at https://bit.ly/BraveTCR

    Omneky is an omnichannel creative generation platform that lets you launch hundreds of thousands of ad iterations that actually work customized across all platforms, with a click of a button. Omneky combines generative AI and real-time advertising data. Mention "Cog Rev" for 10% off https://www.omneky.com/

    Head to Squad to access global engineering without the headache and at a fraction of the cost: head to https://choosesquad.com/ and mention “Turpentine” to skip the waitlist.

    CHAPTERS:
    (00:00:00) About the Show
    (00:05:39) State Space Models
    (00:13:05) Intuition and inspiration
    (00:18:27) Surprises
    (00:22:33) Sponsors: Oracle | Brave
    (00:24:41) Biological inspiration
    (00:25:19) MAMBA breakthrough
    (00:30:59) How does the state work?
    (00:36:44) What is the size of the state?
    (00:39:05) Training vs. Inference (Part 1)
    (00:42:04) Sponsors: Omneky | Squad
    (00:43:51) Training vs. Inference (Part 2)
    (00:43:51) Sequence Models
    (00:49:20) Mamba inference
    (00:57:53) Mamba2 vs Mamba1
    (01:16:05) Overtraining and the future of SSMs
    (01:17:44) Training efficiency vs inference efficiency
    (01:20:52) Hybrid models
    (01:25:04) Scaling Attention Layers
    (01:30:23) Optimizing State
    (01:34:09) The extrapolation abilities of the SSMs
    (01:36:37) Sequence parallelism with Mamba 2
    (01:39:20) Why are you publishing all this?
    (01:40:46) Cartesia and Together
    (01:41:54) Outro

    • 1 hr 44 min

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