Decoder with Nilay Patel

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Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

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The quest to keep OpenAI honest

Despite being one of the most valuable companies in the world, OpenAI is still technically a nonprofit. That’s what set the stage for the dramatic board coup in 2023 that briefly ousted Sam Altman as CEO. And now, OpenAI is trying to shake this nonprofit structure so it can raise even more money and, eventually, go public. There’s a lot at stake here, and not just for OpenAI. Links: OpenAI abandons plans to become a for-profit company | Verge Why California’s AG must continue investigation into OpenAI | CalMatters An open letter to OpenAI | EyesOnOpenAI OpenAI eyes $50B valuation in potential employee share sale | Reuters OpenAI thinks its critics are funded by billionaires | San Francisco Standard Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

40 min
28. KOL

Rewind: Bookshop CEO's crusade to save books from Amazon

Hello, and welcome to Decoder! This is Senior Producer Nick Statt. We’re on a small break for the end of summer, and, sadly, Nilay will still be out a little while longer when we come back. But we have an excellent slate of guest host episodes starting up next month, so stay tuned for those. In the meantime, we wanted to bring back one of our favorite Decoder interviews from earlier this year. It’s with Bookshop CEO Andy Hunter, who back in January launched a pretty bold ebook initiative to take on Amazon and Kindle. It’s been about seven months, but Bookshop has seen big results, including more than $1 million in ebook sales. So we thought it was a good time to revisit our conversation with Andy. Links: Bookshop.org reports 65% growth, e-books add $1 Million in sales | Publishers Weekly Bookshop CEO Andy Hunter’s crusade to save books from Amazon | Decoder Bookshop.org is launching an ebook store to take on Amazon | Verge Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 h 7 min
25. KOL

Is ChatGPT killing higher education?

Hello! Decoder senior producer Kate Cox here. I’m afraid I’m still not Nilay, but I hope you’ve been enjoying our series of guest hosts this summer while he’s out on parental leave. We have a few more really great guest episodes coming up, before Nilay returns to the host chair later this fall, so stay tuned. The production team is taking our own break this week, so while we’re off we’re excited to share this episode of The Gray Area with you. Students all over the country — including my own kids, thank goodness — are back in school right around now, and so we thought it would be a perfect time to revisit host Sean Illing talking with journalist James Walsh about how AI tools like ChatGPT have kicked off a new cheating arms race that’s proving extremely disruptive to college education. There are a lot of big Decoder ideas — and problems — wrapped up in all this. Okay, The Gray Area, with Sean Illing. Enjoy. Links: If AI can do your classwork, why go to college? | The Gray Area Everyone Is cheating their way through college | New York Magazine How to get students to stop using AI | Verge I used the ‘cheat on everything’ AI tool and it didn’t help me cheat on anything | Verge Inside the frat-bro startup that wants you to ‘cheat on everything' | SF Standard A new headache for honest students: proving they didn’t use AI | NYT Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

57 min
21. KOL

Amazon is betting on agents to win the AI race

This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. One of the biggest topics in AI these days is agents — the idea that AI is going to move from chatbots to reliably completing tasks for us in the real world. But the problem with agents is that they really aren’t all that reliable right now. There’s a lot of work happening in the AI industry to try and fix that, and that brings me to my guest today: David Luan, the head of Amazon’s AGI research lab, a cofounder of Adept, and a former VP of engineering at OpenAI. David and I discussed the release of GPT-5, what Amazon wants with agents, and where he thinks the AI race is headed next. Read the full transcript on The Verge. Links: The Platonic Representation Hypothesis | Phillip Isola Amazon plays catch-up with new Nova models to generate voices, video | Verge Amazon’s new AI agent is designed to do your shopping | Verge Microsoft is racing to build an AI ‘agent factory’ | Verge OpenAI’s new ChatGPT Agent can control an entire computer | Verge 24 hours with Alexa Plus: we cooked, we chatted, and it kinda lied to me | Verge Why AI researchers are getting paid like NBA All-Stars | Decoder OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off — and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google | Verge This is Big Tech’s playbook for swallowing the AI industry | Command Line Amazon hires founders away from AI startup Adept | TechCrunch Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. Our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

54 min
18. KOL

How the head of Obsidian went from superfan to CEO

Obsidian is a note-taking and productivity app that occupies the same "second brain" space as competitors like Notion — but in a lot of ways, it's also startlingly different. Obsidian's files are Markdown-based, stored locally on your own devices, and completely free to use. Steph Ango, the CEO, is also different in a lot of ways: He's not an Obsidian founder, but instead came to the role from being basically a member of the fan development community. His take on software, productivity, and business is refreshingly old-fashioned in a lot of good ways, while he's also leading a very 21st century startup. Read the full transcript on The Verge. Links: I’m joining Obsidian as CEO | Obsidian Blog About Obsidian (Manifesto) | Obsidian Narvar acquires Lumi (2021) | Narvar After 15 years whipping the llama’s ass, Winamp shuts down | TechCrunch Notion’s Ivan Zhao wants you to demand better from your tools | Decoder Book Review: “What I Talk About When I Talk About Running” | National Geographic Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt; our editor is Ursa Wright. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

54 min
14. KOL

ChatGPT chief Nick Turley doesn't want you too attached to AI

This is Alex Heath, your Thursday episode guest host and deputy editor at The Verge. Today, I’m talking to a very special guest: Nick Turley, OpenAI’s head of ChatGPT. While Sam Altman is definitely the public face of OpenAI, Nick has been leading ChatGPT’s development since the very beginning, and it’s now the fastest-growing software product of all time with more than 700 million weekly users. So, Nick and I talk about the backlash against OpenAI’s removal of its GPT-4o model, the future of ChatGPT itself, solving hallucinations, and why he thinks it eventually won’t look like a chatbot at all. Read the full transcript on The Verge. Links: ChatGPT won’t remove old models without warning after GPT-5 backlash | Verge ChatGPT is bringing back 4o as an option because people missed it | Verge GPT-5 is being released to all ChatGPT users | Verge The 6 biggest changes coming to ChatGPT | Verge ChatGPT has 20 million paying subscribers | Verge Elon Musk says he’s suing Apple for rigging App Store rankings | Verge OpenAI’s ChatGPT to hit 700 million weekly users | CNBC Chatbots can go into a delusional spiral. Here’s how it happens | NYT ChatGPT gave instructions for murder, self-mutilation, and devil worship | The Atlantic ‘I feel like I’m going crazy’: ChatGPT fuels delusional spirals | WSJ Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

55 min
11. KOL

Notion's CEO wants you to demand better from your tools

This is Casey Newton, founder and editor of Platformer and cohost of the Hard Fork podcast. This is the second episode of my productivity-focused Decoder series I’m doing while Nilay is out on parental leave. Today, I’m talking with Notion cofounder and CEO Ivan Zhao. I’ve followed Notion for quite some time now — I’m a big fan, and I use Notion as part of my workflow with Platformer. So I was very excited to get Ivan on the show to discuss his philosophy on productivity, how he’s grown his company over the last decade, and where he sees the space going in the future. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge. Links: Introducing Notion AI for Work | Notion Notion Mail is a minimalist but powerful take on email | Verge Notion’s new Q&A feature lets you ask an AI about your notes | Verge Notion takes on AI notetakers with its own transcription feature | TechCrunch The impossible dream of good workplace software | Decoder When AI has better taste than you | Julie Zhuo / The Looking Glass Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was editor by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

56 min
7. KOL

GitHub's CEO says AI coding is ‘here to stay’

This is Alex Heath, deputy editor at The Verge. My guest today is GitHub CEO Thomas Dohmke. In many ways, GitHub Copilot set off the current AI coding boom. But since Thomas was on the show a year ago, the rise of vibe coding has shifted the buzz to newer platforms like Cursor and Windsurf. As you’ll hear in our conversation, Thomas is thinking a lot about the competition, and GitHub’s role in the future of software development. Links: Developers, Reinvented | Thomas Dohmke / GitHub Developer Odyssey | Thomas Dohmke / GitHub Why tech is racing to adopt AI coding, with Cursor’s Michael Truell | Decoder GitHub CEO Thomas Dohmke says AI needs competition to thrive | ⁠⁠Decoder⁠⁠ Up to 30 percent of some Microsoft code is now written by AI | Verge GitHub launches its AI app-making tool in preview | Verge Microsoft is getting ready for GPT-5 with a new Copilot smart mode | Verge Zuckerberg: AI will write most Meta code within 18 months | Engadget Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Our producers are Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

1 h 1 min

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Welcome to Decoder

It may seem like a strange time to launch a podcast about business when the pandemic has frozen so many things in place, but the future is still coming — people are building technology and making policy for it right now. And it’s important to talk to them. This is Decoder with Nilay Patel. New episodes coming November 10th. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

27. 10. 2020.

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4 min

Nilay Patel

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Steph Ango

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Nicholas Turley

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Casey Newton

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Ivan Zhao

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Jon Fortt

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Gaurav Misra

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Gil Duran

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Cassie Kozyrkov

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Ellis Hamburger

Gost

Decoder is a show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.