Incel

for being curious, extending grace, and asking questions i would be scared to ask, to people i would be afraid to engage with.

I got about 12 episodes into this podcast before I had to admit the approach to this topic wasn’t heading in the right direction. I started to skip ahead to to gauge the tone of later episodes. I also read op-eds and academic papers Naama had written or coauthored. To contextualize my opinions, I have a PhD in criminology and spent many years in public polling focusing on US opinions of the news, politics and technology. Setting aside for the moment any moral judgement on the merits of the incel perspective, Naama’s approach is blatantly contradictory. For example she repeatedly claims incels are not a terrorist organization or radicalizing influence, but then justifies platforming and hearing out figureheads in the name of keeping channels of communication open so they will cooperate with authorities if/when their members start to escalate to threats of violence. She also repeatedly dismisses inflammatory themes and comments in incel forums as “ironic or absurd” talk to scare off normies and says it is a healthy way to blow off steam despite experts she interviews saying that participating in these online in-groups and refusing professional mental health support further isolates and makes these men more prone to depression and hopelessness. She also cherry picks events and details from real people’s lives to encourage empathy. For example listen to the episode detailing the life and escalation of violence of ER - where she basically acts like he wasn’t part of the formal incel community - and then go read the Wikipedia page and cited articles on this topic. She doesn’t acknowledge that ER was influenced and emboldened by incel ideology and how pervasive and revered his legacy still is in incel forums. From a journalistic standpoint, she repeatedly takes the words of incel figureheads at face value saying they do a good job managing their forums and handling issues in good faith. She doesn’t even contemplate the possibility that, at best, these sources may be the most palatable elements within the incel community, and at worst, could be taking her for a ride, feeding her sob stories and watered down opinions in order to introduce a broader audience to their ideology. This is a common tactic used by cults, conspiracy theorists and criminal groups: introduce prospective members to inoffensive and seemingly reasonable ideas and “facts” to lure them into more extreme thinking. From an academic standpoint, the paper Naama coauthored called “Predictors of Radical Intentions among Incels: A Survey of 54 Self-identified Incels”, uses the laughable methodology of surveying 54 incels who have been guests on this podcast and doesn’t even have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge in the research limitations section that, beyond being a self-selecting sample that is not generalizable to the entire population, there is a high risk of DESIRABILITY BIAS! Because the study participants have full awareness of the analysis plan for the survey and have a stated agenda of disseminating and legitimizing their ideology, they are incentivized to downplay “radical intentions”. Naama also has the audacity to say that research she disagrees with is methodologically “sloppy” and “decontextualized”. So let’s talk about the context. Naama makes no effort to contextualize the statistical realities of the perceived grievances incels build their world views around. It is not true that men historically have had it just as bad, if not worse, than women. It is not true that men have fewer rights and privileges in society. It is not true that feminism has ruined men’s ability to have fulfilling lives. It is not true that women use men, sleep around and get “used up” (how can they be both the user and the usee? Unclear) before settling down with a beta male. Naama lets her guests JUST SAY FALSE OR MISLEADING TRASH and doesn’t factcheck their statements in the moment nor provide context and set the record straight later in the episode. She also doesn’t acknowledge the AGENDA for society that incels espouse: rolling back women’s rights, redistributing “females” so they can’t choose their own partners, creating gulags for women and men they don’t like, justifying rape and violence against women because it’s what they deserve. And that’s before they even bring up race and pedophilia. Naama also seems to think that because only a minority of incels escalate to mass shootings and killing sprees, they are largely not harming anyone. She also dismisses the fact that incels will brag about shouting insults, sexually harassing and assaulting women in their lives and in public as mostly fantasies made up for clout. Ok, even if that were true, why should we have sympathy for people who indulge in these fantasies? And is normalizing and encouraging these acts not harmful to society and the rehabilitation of these young men? And what about the fact that these men live and work among us while harboring these violent and misogynistic resentments and fantasies? What is it like to have one of these men as your coworker, boss, neighbor, relative, etc IRL? I believe that Naama has lost objectivity in no small part because she doesn’t actually have to be in the same room with these men and often doesn’t even video call them. She can entertain their ideas and personal narratives without having to feel any of the unease and fear women experience when they interact with men who make them feel unsafe and dehumanized. I have to say on a personal level that listening to these incels talk about their world view was a horrifying experience that made me more afraid for women’s place in society now and in the future, not less. So Naama if you are listening just ask yourself, when was the last time you actually spoke to a woman on this podcast? When was the last time there was any level setting or even debate on any of the topics you platform? Also, stop giggling when your guests say something outrageous. Its unprofessional.

We need more people like this. Society really can wash the common consensus into a single direction and those that get stuck in the side are battered. Empathy is a powerful thing. I love how she talks to these people. We’re all taught to treat people how we would want to be treated but that erodes for a lot of people. We’re all human and we would do better to remember that. Thank you Naama. You absolutely deserve 5/5 stars. I can’t stop listening to this and know you are making a positive change in these people’s lives.

I am grateful to Naama for seeking to understand incels rather than just accepting the false mainstream narrative that we are majority hateful scary people. I and I suspect many other incels hold no hate in our hearts at all.