"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

Erik Torenberg, Nathan Labenz
"The Cognitive Revolution" | AI Builders, Researchers, and Live Player Analysis

A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

  1. Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

    قبل يوم واحد

    Embryology of AI: How Training Data Shapes AI Development w/ Timaeus' Jesse Hoogland & Daniel Murfet

    Jesse Hoogland and Daniel Murfet, founders of Timaeus, introduce their mathematically rigorous approach to AI safety through "developmental interpretability" based on Singular Learning Theory. They explain how neural network loss landscapes are actually complex, jagged surfaces full of "singularities" where models can change internally without affecting external behavior—potentially masking dangerous misalignment. Using their Local Learning Coefficient measure, they've demonstrated the ability to identify critical phase changes during training in models up to 7 billion parameters, offering a complementary approach to mechanistic interpretability. This work aims to move beyond trial-and-error neural network training toward a more principled engineering discipline that could catch safety issues during training rather than after deployment. Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY (Cisco): The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:44) Introduction and Background (06:17) Timaeus Origins and Philosophy (09:13) Mathematical Background and SLT (12:27) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 1) (16:09) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | The AGNTCY (Cisco) (18:09) Developmental Interpretability Approach (Part 2) (19:24) Proto-Paradigm and SAEs (24:37) Understanding Generalization (30:15) Central Dogma Framework (Part 1) (32:13) Sponsor: NetSuite by Oracle (33:37) Central Dogma Framework (Part 2) (34:35) Loss Landscape Geometry (40:41) Degeneracies and Evidence (47:25) Structure and Data Connection (55:36) Essential Dynamics and Algorithms (01:00:53) Implicit Regularization and Complexity (01:07:19) Double Descent and Scaling (01:09:55) Big Picture Applications (01:17:17) Reward Hacking and Risks (01:25:19) Future Training Vision (01:32:01) Scaling and Next Steps (01:36:43) Outro

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  2. AI Scouting Report: AI Agents -vs- Agentic AI, from Imagine AI Live

    قبل ٦ أيام

    AI Scouting Report: AI Agents -vs- Agentic AI, from Imagine AI Live

    This episode features Nathan's talk from Imagine AI Live, where he provides business leaders with a comprehensive overview of AI agents and agentic AI systems. He covers the evolution from simple task automation to more autonomous AI systems, delivers a practical roadmap for implementing AI agents in business while maintaining quality standards, and addresses concerning developments like reward hacking and scheming in frontier AI systems. The presentation balances accessible explanations for varying AI knowledge levels with rigorous grounding in current research and real-world applications. Nathan also discusses the "Eureka moments" these systems can deliver and provides frameworks for understanding the rapidly evolving landscape of AI agent capabilities. Link to the slide deck presented by Nathan : https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1IpHitlG-6zHBd7hiWsbKpnprApVt3_2XHua3fG9n-Vw/edit?usp=sharing Sponsors: Google Gemini: Google Gemini features VEO3, a state-of-the-art AI video generation model in the Gemini app. Sign up at https://gemini.google.com Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) Sponsor: Google Gemini (00:31) About the Episode (03:36) Introduction and Speaker Background (05:06) What is Intelligence? (07:06) Defining AI Agents (09:36) Structured AI Workflows (13:06) Autonomous Agent Examples (Part 1) (15:15) Sponsors: Google Gemini | Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (16:54) Autonomous Agent Examples (Part 2) (17:19) Agent Taxonomy Framework (19:49) Current AI Capabilities (22:19) Reinforcement Learning Revolution (25:49) Reward Hacking Problems (28:19) AI Safety Concerns (29:49) Business Recommendations (37:35) Sponsor: The AGNTCY

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  3. The Decade of May 15-22, 2025: Google's 50X AI Growth & Transformation with Logan Kilpatrick

    ١٢ يونيو

    The Decade of May 15-22, 2025: Google's 50X AI Growth & Transformation with Logan Kilpatrick

    Logan Kilpatrick from Google DeepMind returns for his fifth appearance to discuss Google’s transformation from "sleeping giant" to AI powerhouse, sharing insights from his year at the company as AI usage grew 50 times to 500 trillion tokens per month. He examines Google’s strengths, including superior compute infrastructure, frontier models like Gemini 2.5 Pro, viral products like NotebookLM, and the deepest AI research talent in the industry. The conversation covers whether leading AI companies will become more similar or different as easy opportunities disappear, why startups still have unique chances, and the potential impact of Google’s ultra-fast diffusion language models. Logan also shares practical advice for joining early access programs and getting noticed by industry insiders, including his personal email and an open invitation to reach out. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud that delivers better performance, faster speeds, and significantly lower costs, including up to 50% less for compute, 70% for storage, and 80% for networking. Run any workload, from infrastructure to AI, in a high-availability environment and try OCI for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utmcampaign=fy25q4agntcyamerpaid-mediaagntcy-cognitiverevolutionpodcast&utmchannel=podcast&utmsource=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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  4. a16z on Protecting Little Tech: The Techno-Optimist AI Policy Agenda with Matt Perault, Head of AI Policy

    ٩ يونيو

    a16z on Protecting Little Tech: The Techno-Optimist AI Policy Agenda with Matt Perault, Head of AI Policy

    In this episode, Matt Perault, Head of AI Policy at a16z, discusses their approach to AI regulation focused on protecting "little tech" startups from regulatory capture that could entrench big tech incumbents. The conversation covers a16z's core principle of regulating harmful AI use rather than the development process, exploring key policy initiatives like the Raise Act and California's SB 813. Perault addresses critical challenges including setting appropriate regulatory thresholds, transparency requirements, and designing dynamic frameworks that balance innovation with safety. The discussion examines both areas of agreement and disagreement within the AI policy landscape, particularly around scaling laws, regulatory timing, and the concentration of AI capabilities. Disclaimer: This information is for general educational purposes only and is not a recommendation to buy, hold, or sell any investment or financial product. Turpentine is an acquisition of a16z Holdings, L.L.C., and is not a bank, investment adviser, or broker-dealer. This podcast may include paid promotional advertisements, individuals and companies featured or advertised during this podcast are not endorsing AH Capital or any of its affiliates (including, but not limited to, a16z Perennial Management L.P.). Similarly, Turpentine is not endorsing affiliates, individuals, or any entities featured on this podcast. All investments involve risk, including the possible loss of capital. Past performance is no guarantee of future results and the opinions presented cannot be viewed as an indicator of future performance. Before making decisions with legal, tax, or accounting effects, you should consult appropriate professionals. Information is from sources deemed reliable on the date of publication, but Turpentine does not guarantee its accuracy. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud platform that delivers better, cheaper, and faster solutions for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. Experience up to 50% savings on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking with OCI's high-performance environment—try it for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utm_campaign=fy25q4_agntcy_amer_paid-media_agntcy-cognitiverevolution_podcast&utm_channel=podcast&utm_source=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

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  5. Don't Make Mirror Life: Synthetic Biologist Kate Adamala on Risks & Responsibility

    ٧ يونيو

    Don't Make Mirror Life: Synthetic Biologist Kate Adamala on Risks & Responsibility

    In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, University of Minnesota Professor of Genetics and Synthetic Biologist, Kate Adamala, offers insights into synthetic biology and its potential implications for humanity. The discussion begins with an overview of synthetic biology and its goal to expand the chemical repertoire of life. Adamala delves into 'mirror life'—biological systems made of mirror-image molecules—and the significant risks they pose. She highlights parallels to AI safety concerns and emphasizes the importance of containing groundbreaking technologies to avoid unintended consequences. Adamala recounts her journey from advocating for mirror life to leading an effort to prevent its development, stressing the need for responsible innovation. The episode concludes with reflections on maximizing benefits while minimizing risks in both synthetic biology and AI. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud platform that delivers better, cheaper, and faster solutions for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. Experience up to 50% savings on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking with OCI's high-performance environment—try it for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utm_campaign=fy25q4_agntcy_amer_paid-media_agntcy-cognitiverevolution_podcast&utm_channel=podcast&utm_source=podcast NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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  6. What did Google's AI Co-Scientist "Discover"? The Human Scientists' POV, from the Podovirus podcast

    ٤ يونيو

    What did Google's AI Co-Scientist "Discover"? The Human Scientists' POV, from the Podovirus podcast

    We're following up on our recent episode on Google's AI Co-Scientist with a special crossover episode from the Podovirus podcast. Hosts Dr Jessica Sacher and Dr Joe Campbell speak with José Penadés and Tiago Costa, scientists at Imperial College London who made a surprising discovery that Google's AI Co-Scientist later put forward as a hypothesis entirely on its own. The episode explores the fascinating world of bacteriophages (viruses that infect bacteria) and phage-inducible chromosomal islands (PICIs) - DNA sequences that hijack virus reproduction to spread themselves as a bacterial defense mechanism. The key mystery was how capsid-forming PICIs, which only encode virus heads without tails, managed to spread across different bacteria. The surprising answer, which eluded human scientists for years but which Google's AI Co-Scientist discovered through literature analysis, is that these capsids evolved to connect with various virus tails in the environment. This episode demonstrates how AI can now contribute to frontier scientific research beyond just grunt work - providing unbiased perspectives and key insights that accelerate discovery. It's a vivid example of science fiction becoming reality in our lifetimes. SPONSORS: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI) is the next-generation cloud platform that delivers better, cheaper, and faster solutions for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs. Experience up to 50% savings on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking with OCI's high-performance environment—try it for free with zero commitment at https://oracle.com/cognitive NetSuite by Oracle: NetSuite by Oracle is the AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41,000 businesses, offering a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR. Gain total visibility and control to make quick decisions and automate everyday tasks—download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade: Three Insights for Leaders, at https://netsuite.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing CHAPTERS: (00:00) About the Episode (04:37) Welcome to Podovirus Podcast (04:58) Introducing the Special Guests and Topic (06:30) Exploring Mobile Genetic Elements (13:20) The Role of AI in Phage Research (16:48) Mechanisms of Gene Transfer (Part 1) (20:10) Sponsors: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure | NetSuite by Oracle (22:43) Mechanisms of Gene Transfer (Part 2) (23:36) Insights and Discoveries (28:45) Future Directions and Applications (Part 1) (32:35) Sponsors: Shopify (34:32) Future Directions and Applications (Part 2) (41:22) Unbiased Systems and Conjugation (42:35) Google's Excitement and Experimental Evidence (45:39) Benchmarking AI Systems (49:29) Manuscript Revisions and Future Plans (51:53) AI as a Collaborator in Scientific Research (54:52) Challenges and Hypotheses in Phage Biology (57:58) Future of AI in Scientific Research (01:05:52) Concluding Thoughts and Future Collaborations (01:12:07) Outro

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  7. Mechanistic Interpretability: Philosophy, Practice & Progress with Goodfire's Dan Balsam & Tom McGrath

    ٢٩ مايو

    Mechanistic Interpretability: Philosophy, Practice & Progress with Goodfire's Dan Balsam & Tom McGrath

    In this episode, Daniel Balsam and Tom McGrath, at Goodfire, discuss the future of mechanistic interpretability in AI models. They explore the fundamental inputs like models, compute, and algorithms, and emphasize the importance of a rich empirical approach to understanding how models work. Balsam and McGrath provide insights into ongoing projects and breakthroughs, particularly in scientific domains and creative applications, as they aim to push the frontiers of AI interpretability. They also discuss the company's recent funding and their goal to advance interpretability as a critical area in AI research. SPONSORS: Box Report: AI is delivering truly measurable productivity — strategic companies are already turning a 37% productivity edge. Discover how in Box’s new 2025 State of AI in the Enterprise Report — read the full report here: https://bit.ly/43uVP52 Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle Cloud Infrastructure offers next-generation cloud solutions that cut costs and boost performance. With OCI, you can run AI projects and applications faster and more securely for less. New U.S. customers can save 50% on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking by switching to OCI before May 31, 2024. See if you qualify at https://oracle.com/cognitive ElevenLabs: ElevenLabs gives your app a natural voice. Pick from 5,000+ voices in 31 languages, or clone your own, and launch lifelike agents for support, scheduling, learning, and games. Full server and client SDKs, dynamic tools, and monitoring keep you in control. Start free at https://elevenlabs.io/cognitive-revolution NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://www.cognitiverevolution.ai Twitter (Podcast): https://x.com/cogrev_podcast Twitter (Nathan): https://x.com/labenz LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nathanlabenz/ Youtube: https://youtube.com/@CognitiveRevolutionPodcast Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-cognitive-revolution-ai-builders-researchers-and/id1669813431 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6yHyok3M3BjqzR0VB5MSyk

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  8. The Perfect Substrate for AGI, with Replit CEO Amjad Masad

    ٢٢ مايو

    The Perfect Substrate for AGI, with Replit CEO Amjad Masad

    In this episode of The Cognitive Revolution, Amjad Masad , founder and CEO of Replit, discusses the fast-paced growth of Replit, the concept of 'vibe coding', and the challenges and opportunities in the rapidly evolving AI-assisted coding space. He shares insights into Replit's competitive advantages, known as 'moats', and how they maintain their lead through innovation and excellence in execution. The conversation delves into the architectural complexities of building AI agents, their autonomy, and the practical implications for businesses. Amjad touches upon the potential and limitations of current AI models, the future of general intelligence, and the preparation needed for potential AI advancements. He also highlights the importance of intuitive user interfaces for AI-driven software development and the critical role of human-like interaction with AI agents. Upcoming Major AI Events Featuring Nathan Labenz as a Keynote Speaker: ⁠https://www.imagineai.live/⁠ ⁠https://adapta.org/adapta-summit⁠ ⁠https://itrevolution.com/product/enterprise-tech-leadership-summit-las-vegas/ SPONSORS: ElevenLabs: ElevenLabs gives your app a natural voice. Pick from 5,000+ voices in 31 languages, or clone your own, and launch lifelike agents for support, scheduling, learning, and games. Full server and client SDKs, dynamic tools, and monitoring keep you in control. Start free at https://elevenlabs.io/cognitive-revolution Oracle Cloud Infrastructure (OCI): Oracle Cloud Infrastructure offers next-generation cloud solutions that cut costs and boost performance. With OCI, you can run AI projects and applications faster and more securely for less. New U.S. customers can save 50% on compute, 70% on storage, and 80% on networking by switching to OCI before May 31, 2024. See if you qualify at https://oracle.com/cognitive The AGNTCY: The AGNTCY is an open-source collective dedicated to building the Internet of Agents, enabling AI agents to communicate and collaborate seamlessly across frameworks. Join a community of engineers focused on high-quality multi-agent software and support the initiative at https://agntcy.org/?utm_campaign=fy25q4_agntcy_amer_paid-media_agntcy-cognitiverevolution_podcast&utm_channel=podcast&utm_source=podcast Shopify: Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide, handling 10% of U.S. e-commerce. With hundreds of templates, AI tools for product descriptions, and seamless marketing campaign creation, it's like having a design studio and marketing team in one. Start your $1/month trial today at https://shopify.com/cognitive NetSuite: Over 41,000 businesses trust NetSuite by Oracle, the #1 cloud ERP, to future-proof their operations. With a unified platform for accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR, NetSuite provides real-time insights and forecasting to help you make quick, informed decisions. Whether you're earning millions or hundreds of millions, NetSuite empowers you to tackle challenges and seize opportunities. Download the free CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at https://netsuite.com/cognitive PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing

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A biweekly podcast where hosts Nathan Labenz and Erik Torenberg interview the builders on the edge of AI and explore the dramatic shift it will unlock in the coming years. The Cognitive Revolution is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: turpentine.co

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