American Crisis, Ep. 4: Ruth Ben-Ghiat on creeping autocracy in the U.S.

A few days before the 2016 presidential election, the New Yorker magazine published a prescient interview with Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a scholar and historian with a particular interest in Mussolini. (She also writes the excellent Lucid newsletter here on Substack.)

“These people are mass marketers,” she said then about populist strongmen — including a certain presidential candidate. “They give the impression of talking directly to the people.” A few days later, of course, Donald Trump was elected, and the rest is, well, still-developing history.

A few days before the 2016 presidential election, the New Yorker magazine published a prescient interview with Ruth Ben-Ghiat, a scholar and historian with a particular interest in Mussolini. (She also writes the excellent Lucid newsletter here on Substack.)

“These people are mass marketers,” she said then about populist strongmen — including a certain presidential candidate. “They give the impression of talking directly to the people.” A few days later, of course, Donald Trump was elected, and the rest is, well, still-developing history.

I hope you’ll enjoy our conversation and learn as much from it as I did. I was relieved to hear her observations about some positive developments around the world as ordinary people push back against authoritarian threats to democracy. And I enjoyed hearing about a new project of hers that will follow her excellent 2020 book, “Strongmen: From Mussolini to the Present.”

I want to sincerely thank all the new subscribers to American Crisis, many of whom joined up this week after I published my first piece of media criticism here, under the tag “Media Maelstrom.” In that piece, I wrote about how the mainstream media adopts right-wing framing as a defense mechanism and the insidious damage that practice does; I gave recent examples of this failing from ABC News and the New York Times.

It came through loud and clear that you appreciate this and want to see more of it. To those of you who wrote a private message with your new paid subscriptions, telling me why you decided to support my work, please know that I read each one with deeply felt gratitude. And do stay tuned for more!

This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit margaretsullivan.substack.com/subscribe