Behavioral Grooves Podcast Kurt Nelson, PhD and Tim Houlihan

Our guest, Jon Levy, is arguably one of the most influential behavioral scientists in the world. Over 10 years ago, Jon founded The Influencers Dinner, a secret dining experience for industry leaders ranging from Olympians, Nobel laureates, executives, to musicians. Over the course of the last decade, these dinners have developed into a wide community of influential people. 
Our opening speed round with Jon did not disappoint. We learn his unique perspective on which Star Trek Captains was the best, and the surprising answer to who his dream guest was at one of his dinners. 
In our discussion with Jon, he shares the secrets behind his influential approach: what motivated him to start this novel idea, how he developed it and the key steps behind the ongoing success of the community that he has curated. 
Jon’s second book, “You’re Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence” https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA is released on May 11, 2021. Which follows his hugely successful first book: “The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure” https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m. We had the privilege of previewing his latest book for this interview and we were blown away by Jon’s unique approach to cultivating human connections through trust and community. 
Of course, we discuss what music Jon has been listening to at home and we are surprised to learn what has recently sparked his musical interest. Jon has found that through his Influence Dinners, he has hosted a lot of his childhood pop idols, which he still enjoys listening to.
Thanks for listening and thank you for taking a minute to join the others who have already left us a review. 
© 2021 Behavioral Grooves
Jon Levy's Books
You're Invited: The Art and Science of Cultivating Influence https://amzn.to/2RmlUlA
The 2 AM Principle: Discover the Science of Adventure https://amzn.to/3eS3p0m  
Links
Jon Levy https://www.jonlevytlb.com/ 
Peter Cullen (voice of Optimus Prime) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cullen 
James T. Kirk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_T._Kirk 
Jean-Luc Picard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Luc_Picard 
Neil deGrasse Tyson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_deGrasse_Tyson 
Oprah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey 
Beyonce https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyonc%C3%A9 
Sir Richard Branson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Branson 
Stephen Hawking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking 
Disney https://www.disney.com/ 
Mark Zuckerberg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Zuckerberg 
Nicholas Christakis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis 
James H. Fowler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fowler 
The Spread of Obesity in a Large Social Network over 32 Years 
Christakis and Fowler (2007) https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmsa066082 
Nike Run Club https://www.nike.com/gb/nrc-app 
Bill Nye the Science Guy https://billnye.com/ 
Parkour https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkour 
The Daily Show https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Daily_Show 
The New York Times: Want to Meet Influential New Yorkers? Invite Them to Dinner
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/10/fashion/want-to-meet-influential-new-yorkers-invite-them-to-dinner.html 
SNVTA - Ventral tegmental area of the brain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventral_tegmental_area 
Davos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davos 
Bill Gates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates 
Angela Merkel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel 
TED https://www.ted.com/ 
My Octopus Teacher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Octopus_Teacher 
United States Navy SEAL selection and training https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_SEAL_selection_and_training 
The IKEA Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect#:~:text=The%20IKEA%20effect%20is%20a,of%20furniture%20that%20require%20assembly
Common Biases & Heuristics https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XHp

In this episode we are thrilled to be discussing our two favorite topics: human behavior and music. We learn that music, more than any other activity, can help lift our mood, during COVID. Our guests Pablo Ripollés PhD and Ernest Mas Herrero have spent years studying how the brain responds to rewards, learning and memory. Early in the pandemic, they decided to conduct research on a long list of activities that people were doing at home to manage their stress and increase the pleasure in their lives. While a number of the activities were found to help with mental health, the research overwhelmingly showed that engaging with music was the best way to lift your mood.
We have a really engaging conversation with Pablo and Ernest about their research findings on wellbeing and music. They believe that because listening to music is a passive activity and is so accessible, or “fun and free” as they call it, everyone can experience pleasure from it. And it’s not just listening to music; dancing, singing or playing music are all beneficial.  We also learn that the best type of music to engage with is whatever music you really enjoy: “It will be beneficial as long as it is pleasurable.”
The questionnaire Pablo and Ernest discuss in the podcast is the Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsite/bmrq.php. It will take you only a few minutes to find out about your individual sensitivity to musical reward. And you can also read Pablo and Ernest’s full research article: “Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/. 
Listen in to find out more from Pablo and Ernest about how music can benefit your mental wellbeing. And If you’d like to support the work we do at Behavioral Grooves bringing you interesting research insights, please consider becoming a Patreon member at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. 
© 2021 Behavioral Grooves
Topics
(0:06) Introduction
(5:20) Speed Round Questions
(8:44) Research Insights with Pablo and Ernest
(36:50) Grooving Session
(50:26) Bonus Track
Musical Links 
Dropkick Murphys https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcIRZxNH7xcEt1fu4pfqFRg 
Rumba https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrsK48Bp6T8 
Catalan music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjJnF95TWN8 
Zoo https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBh82sG2OKv1J6Ij43mdFiw 
Depeche Mode https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCM-CWGUijAC-8idv6k6Fygw 
Aretha Franklin “Think” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqYnevHibaI 
Links
“Rock ’n’ Roll but not Sex or Drugs: Music is negatively correlated to depressive symptoms during the COVID-19 pandemic via reward-related mechanisms” Herrero et al (2020): https://psyarxiv.com/x5upn/ 
“Neural correlates of specific musical anhedonia” Martínez-Molina et al (2016): https://www.pnas.org/content/113/46/E7337
Pablo Ripollés: https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/pablo-ripolles.html 
Ernest Mas Herrero: https://orcid.org/0000-0002-3607-8489 
Jamón ibérico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam%C3%B3n_ib%C3%A9rico 
Lionel Messi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Messi 
Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan 
Roger Federer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer 
“Goal Gradient Theory” Kivetz et al (2006): https://home.uchicago.edu/ourminsky/Goal-Gradient_Illusionary_Goal_Progress.pdf 
Robert Zatorre, PhD https://www.mcgill.ca/neuro/robert-zatorre-phd
Neomi Singer, PhD https://neuroscience-innovation.org/music-to-my-brain-neomi-singer 
Laura Ferreri, University of Lyon https://emc.univ-lyon2.fr/laura-ferreri-785895.kjsp 
Michael McPhee, NYU https://steinhardt.nyu.edu/people/michael-mcphee  
Hedonia and anhedonia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anhedonia 
Barcelona Music Reward Questionnaire http://brainvitge.org/z_oldsit

Our guest this week, Sandra Matz PhD exposes the truth behind our online presence. In our conversation, Sandra reveals that with simple analytics, the digital footprints we leave behind online (our Facebook Likes, our credit card transactions, our Google Map searches) add up to paint a very revealing picture of our personality and state of mind.
Sandra Matz PhD is an associate professor at Columbia Business School. She takes a Big Data approach to studying human behaviour. Her methodologies use psychology, computer science and data collection to explore the relationships between people’s psychological characteristics and their digital footprints. 
Sandra’s work has been published in top-tier journals such as Psychological Science and the American Psychologist, and has attracted worldwide media attention from outlets like the Independent, the BBC, CNBC, the Washington Post, the Chicago Tribune, and the World Economic Forum.
Our discussion delves into Sandra’s experience around social media profiles, digital ethics, data privacy and our understanding of informed consent. As always we find out about our guest’s musical taste but this week we even find out what our musical preferences can reveal about our personality and social identities. 
We hope you enjoy our discussion with Sandra Matz PhD, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves.
 
Topics
3:04 Welcome to Sandra Matz PhD and speed round questions
4:52 Discussion about Sandra Matz’s Research
52:32 Grooving Session
1:10:37 Bonus Track with Kurt
 
Links
Sandra Matz https://www8.gsb.columbia.edu/cbs-directory/detail/sm4409 
Cambridge Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
Cass Sunstein https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cass_Sunstein 
GDPR https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation 
Kate Crawford, NYU https://ainowinstitute.org/about.html 
Helen Nissenbaum, Cornell https://nissenbaum.tech.cornell.edu/ 
Tory Higgins, Shared Reality: What Makes Us Strong and Tears Us Apart https://amzn.to/3aywWdW 
SoundCloud https://soundcloud.com/ 
Brene Brown https://brenebrown.com/ 
Steve Bannon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon 
Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves
Behavioral Grooves @behavioralgroov https://twitter.com/behavioralgroov 
Kurt @motivationguru https://twitter.com/motivationguru 
Tim @THoulihan https://twitter.com/THoulihan 
Mary @BeSciMary https://twitter.com/BeSciMary
 
Musical Links
Taylor Swift https://www.youtube.com/user/taylorswift 
Justin Bieber https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIwFjwMjI0y7PDBVEO9-bkQ 
Bob Dylan https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnRI0ay61tY-fKYzzB3fCnw 
Britney Spears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-u5WLJ9Yk4 
Coldplay https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDPM_n1atn2ijUwHd0NNRQw 
ACDC https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB0JSO6d5ysH2Mmqz5I9rIw 
Lady Gaga https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNL1ZadSjHpjm4q9j2sVtOA 
 

Research is showing that there are four broad groups of people who are the most vaccine hesitant:
African Americans
Latinos
Women between the ages of 20 and 36
Rural Americans and Republicans
Many of us have a family or friend who feels hesitant about the vaccination. In this episode, Kurt and Tim address how you can have a positive conversation with them, using proven behavioral science techniques. 
Compassionate curiosity
Listen with compassion
Understanding motivations
Be genuine with curiosity
Leverage the right messenger
Framing what you’re going to share
Think about their perspective
Find an authority figure who they respect
Trumpcine
The Message
Change the social norm
Being able to take our masks off “Take a shot, take off your mask”
Personalise the message
Links
Morgan Freeman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgan_Freeman 
Kwame Christian https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/kwame-christian-on-compassionate-curiosity-social-justice-conversations-and-cinnamon-toast-crunch/ 
Steve Martin & Joe Marks: BG episode
https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/ 
Robb Willer, Stanford University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Willer 
Donald Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump 
Ivanka Trump https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump 
Ted Cruz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Cruz 
Trumpcine https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/04/12/trump-calls-covid-19-vaccine-trumpcine-mocks-fauci-again/ 
Frank Luntz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz 
Robert Cialdini https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/robert-cialdini-phd-littering-egoism-and-aretha-franklin/ 
The Petrified Forrest https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-shaping-us/201909/the-petrified-wood-principle 
Katy Milkman https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/katy-milkman-phd-using-behavior-change-for-good/ 
Surfacing norms to increase vaccine acceptance https://psyarxiv.com/srv6t/
Patreon https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves 
 
© 2021 Behavioral Grooves

Dr. Melanie Green is a professor at the University of Buffalo. She joined us on the podcast to explain how the power of a compelling narrative, including the effects of fictional stories, can be used to change beliefs and attitudes. Her theory of "transportation into a narrative world" focuses on how immersive storytelling is a mechanism of narrative influence.
It was an in-depth conversation that explored concepts around how stories move us, the power of narrative to affect both cognitive and emotional feelings, and how restorative narratives can be used to help heal communities after disasters. We touch on the psychological response of reactance, the appeal of conspiracy theory stories and the elements needed to create a compelling story. 
We also introduce - in a slightly more proper fashion - our production and research assistant, Mary Kaliff. We are excited to introduce Mary to our listeners and hope you will welcome her with a happy greeting on social media!
Finally, no episode of Behavioral Grooves would be complete without understanding our guest’s musical tastes. Melanie’s upbringing in Gainesville, Florida influenced her lifelong love of music, in particular the hometown hero,  Tom Petty. She’s also a fan of James Taylor, which delighted Tim. More recently, Melanie’s house is often filled with the sound of the Hamilton soundtrack, thanks to her children’s love of the musical, which delighted Kurt. So, it was wins all around. 
We hope you enjoy our conversation with Melanie and if you like it, please jump down to the bottom of your listening app and share a quick rating or a short review with us. It goes a long way in helping others decide if they should listen to Behavioral Grooves. 
Topics
0:07 Introduction 
1:00 Hello from Mary Kaliff
3:46 Welcome and Speed Round with Melanie Green
7:44 Reactance and empathy
16:25 What makes a good story?
22:26 Storytelling in different mediums
27:12 Parasocial Interaction
33:10 Storytelling for social good
38:50 Conspiracy Theories
43:07 Melanie’s music and playlist
47:30 Grooving Session
Quotes 
(14:13) If you do have a story that's not representative, the danger of it kind of having an undue influence on people's thinking and decision making is, I think, a real one, especially with something consequential, like these medical decisions. 
(18:21) the way that stories can inform us and change our minds, is through this process of being immersed in them.
(31:17) And so a story can be a really nice kind of way of summarizing and illustrating the guiding principles maybe that people want the organization to follow
(33:37) restorative narratives tell those stories, you know, how people move from something bad to kind of come back to a better place.
Social Media
Tim @THoulihan
Kurt @motivationguru
Mary @BeSciMary
Other Content
To listen to more podcasts about narratives and messages why not delve into these episodes:
https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/steve-martin-and-joe-marks-the-messenger-is-the-message/
https://behavioralgrooves.com/episode/john-sweeney-everything-is-a-story/ 
© 2021 Behavioral Grooves
Links
Melanie Green:  https://www.buffalo.edu/cas/communication/faculty/green.html 
The Game of Thrones: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_of_Thrones 
Story telling Mirrors in the Brain: https://www.michaelharvey.org/new-blog/2019/12/29/storytelling-mirrors-in-the-brain 
Victoria Shaffer, PhD: https://psychology.missouri.edu/people/shaffer 
The Bible: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible 
The Koran:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran 
The Bhagavad Ghita: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhagavad_Gita 
Pamela Rutledge: https://www.pamelarutledge.com/ 
Guy Schoenecker: https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/12/07/life-story-guy-schoenecker/ 
BI WORLDWIDE: https://www.biworldwide.com/careers/ 
Common Biases & Heuristics: https://docs.google.com/document/d

Leidy Klotz is the Copenhaver Associate Professor of Architecture, Civil and Environmental Engineering at the University of Virginia. His research fills in underexplored overlaps between engineering and behavioral science, in pursuit of more sustainable environmental systems. He has published over 70 peer-reviewed articles in venues that include top academic journals in built environment engineering, engineering education, and design, as well as imprints of both Science and Nature.
We explored the rarity of subtraction from our lives and the fact that we tend to add things much more than we remove things. Granted, we’ve been builders of things since the dawn of civilization, but when is enough, enough? Leidy suggested we begin any initiative by subtracting before we start adding.  
We traced the concept from Lao Tzu through DaVinci through Kurt Lewin and right up into today’s literature with Marie Kondo and Tim Ferriss. But Leidy’s thoughts are truly fresh because he is adding to this historical narrative with scientific data. He offered us fresh ways to think about this uphill battle with our natural desires. 
We also discussed Leidy’s view of the Planetary Tipping Point: where our very fixed-resource planet gets maxed out by humans with an unlimited desire for more. And we were pleased to talk about Kurt Lewin and his force-field analysis and, as you might expect, we enthusiastically discussed Bruce Springsteen as a prolific and gifted writer. 
We hope you enjoy our discussion with Leidy Klotz, and if you do, please leave us a quick review or join our Patreon team at https://www.patreon.com/behavioralgrooves. 
 
Links
Leidy Klotz, PhD: https://engineering.virginia.edu/faculty/leidy-klotz
Lego https://www.lego.com/en-us 
Harry Potter Lego Set - Hogwarts https://www.lego.com/en-us/search?q=harry%20potter%20hogwarts 
Wildlife Bingo https://www.nature-watch.com/wildlife-bingo-game-p-176.html 
Michael Jordan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Jordan 
Bruce Springsteen https://brucespringsteen.net/ 
Mayan City of Coba https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coba 
Marie Kondo https://konmari.com/ 
Tim Ferris https://tim.blog/ 
Da Vinci https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci 
Lao Tzu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laozi 
Bowerbird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowerbird 
Allison Zelkowitz https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-zelkowitz-197431a/?originalSubdomain=lb 
Chaning Jang https://www.busaracenter.org/staff-bios/chaning-8f39x 
Kurt Lewin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Lewin 
Kate Orff, Lexington Waterway Project https://www.scapestudio.com/people/kate-orff/ 
Dan Ariely “Predictably Irrational” https://danariely.com/books/predictably-irrational/ 
Roger Dooley “Friction” https://www.rogerdooley.com/books/friction/ 
 
Musical Links
Bruce Springsteen “Darkness On The Edge Of Town” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg0ekQBmzKs 
Bruce Springsteen “Born In The USA”  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPhWR4d3FJQ 
Bruce Springsteen “Western Stars” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IXzAAKrsFE 
Bruce Springsteen “Letter to You” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQyLEz0qy-g 
 
Topics
3:20 Leidy’s 6-year-old son answers a speed round question
4:34 Speed round with Leidy
7:14 Leidy’s book - Subtraction
13:00 “More-ality”
24:00 Planetary tipping points
26:15 Kurt Lewin force field theory
29:28 Kate Orff Lexington Waterways Project
33:40 Subtraction checklist
37:57 Springsteen
45:24 Grooving
 
Interview Quotes
(8:10) we're doing these mental searches for solutions, and our mind goes to additive solutions before it goes to subtractive ones. 
(12:01) as people are trying to change things from how they are to how they want them to be, we systematically think of adding first and then, only subsequently or with effort or with reminders, think of subtraction
(35:15) so often we ki