126 episodes

For anyone who is interested in following Jesus as his disciple. This podcast will be conversational, talking together about topics of prayer, sharing our faith with others, making disciples, our relationship with the word of God, forming groups and multiplication. If you are a disciple, disciple maker, group leader, church leader or multiplying leader you will enjoy these real experience based conversations.


Conversations as you Go Dave Lawton

    • Religion & Spirituality

For anyone who is interested in following Jesus as his disciple. This podcast will be conversational, talking together about topics of prayer, sharing our faith with others, making disciples, our relationship with the word of God, forming groups and multiplication. If you are a disciple, disciple maker, group leader, church leader or multiplying leader you will enjoy these real experience based conversations.


    126. Campfire Chat

    126. Campfire Chat

    We join Dave as he catches up with Brian and Klaus around a campfire to the west of Canberra moments after a time of praying over the city together.

    Embracing DMM from the heart

    Brian shares a little of his journey towards DMM from being a legacy church leader in the sophisticated city of Canberra.

    “We previously never thought about multiplying evangelism. But then we learnt that to help somebody discover God is to help them multiply.” 

    Brian tells us the importance of having a ‘harvest is plentiful’ perspective. God has a plan for so called ‘tough’ cities like Canberra as we pray for harvest workers to be raised up (Luke 10:2).

    “Prayer has become so much more important than ever before since its about being inwardly transformed, not just learning a slick new method.”

    Renewing our minds as teams

    Klaus joins the conversation sharing how seeing disciple making teams form has been key. Switching from gathering in a hall to homes has allowed their church to become more loving, learning and joy filled discipling communities. 

    “I love the simplicity of how everyone in DMM can share God’s stories. Jesus himself shared stories to connect with the hearts and minds of such a wide range of people.” 

    The willingness to ‘go slow to go far’ as disciple makers, Klaus says, is vital. He says the biggest challenge is inside us as God calls us to renew of our minds to his truth. He describes how using Jim Britts’ book (‘21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker’) with the team is helping them embrace the habits of Pray, Go, Disciple, Multiply in a deeper way. 

    Multiplying everywhere through discipling hubs

    Brian describes their current challenge of continuing to form apostolic and multiplying hubs of disciple makers all across Canberra. 

    “Genuine leadership is leaders multiplying leaders. The multiplication of disciples needs to happen in every part of the operation. Catalytic leaders will multiply catalytic leaders. Movements will even multiply movements.” 

    Pray the edges!

    Before Klaus closes the podcast in prayer, Brian finishes up by emphasising the vital roles of what he calls evolving prayer by urging us to ‘pray the edges’ as we continue to engage with the person of God’s Word. 

    “Everything needs to come from heaven…Every time we have seen a pioneering movement, it has been sponsored by prayer and the Word.”

    • 28 min
    125. Obedience Multiplication and Church with Jim Britts

    125. Obedience Multiplication and Church with Jim Britts

    We continue hearing from Jim Britts (author of the book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker) sharing with us in this last (of three) podcast on the habits of disciple making. 

    Obedience - Jesus' love language

    Jim shares how there is a big difference between learning something and obeying something. We reproduce who we are, not what we tell people to do. Proving our love for Jesus happens through putting his words into real practice, avoiding vagueness (an enemy of obedience). 

    Multiplication - pouring into less to reach more

    Instead of ‘extraction evangelism’, we need to multiply the gospel through key insiders who’ll impact their existing ‘oikos’ (community). This means focusing more on those who are the spiritual sharers as Paul describes in 2 Timothy...

    'And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others'. (2 Timothy 2:2)


    What does church actually look like for Jim?

    Coaching through story telling: this happens over food as people share what God is doing from everyone being intentional with prayer and spiritual conversations. The group then responds with a time of prayer. (This space also includes coaching people to take their next steps in engaging with lost people). 

    Discovery bible study: everyone is empowered to facilitate DBS. There’s a focus on empowering children since it’s worth the mess for the next generation. 

    7 Commands of Christ when becoming a church

    As groups come to Christ (and become a church), they are taken through ‘7 Commands of Christ'. Each week they look at different stories from the themes of Acts 2:37-47 (Repentance, Baptism, Loving one another, Prayer, Giving, Lord's Supper and the Great Commission).

    Final encouragement - be practitioners

    Jim finishes by sharing how the most important thing for us as disciple making leaders is that we are being practitioners amongst the lost ourselves. We will reproduce only who we are, not what we tell people to do. Our very souls need this. 

    Purchase your copy of Jim's book here.

    • 23 min
    124. Discovery and Team with Jim Britts

    124. Discovery and Team with Jim Britts

    We continue our conversation with movement catalyst Jim Britts (who has just released a new book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker).

    Jim starts with some movement stories from the last few years that have come from him stepping into DMM. He shares his personal shifts to helping people come to Jesus through a disciple making process instead of starting with the sinners prayer.

    We hear of the next two habits of a disciple maker as Jim reminds us that we need to move from being results to habits orientated in our disciple making.

    Habit #3 - Discovery

    Leading people in starting DBS is vital. We need to move into disciple making relationships, walking alongside who Jim calls 'PPOP' (potential people of peace). By finding someone's 'pain point' through spiritual conversations, Jim encourages us to offer prayer and start sharing discovery style stories.

    "A message discovered is much better than a message delivered."

    Habit #4: Team

    Being in disciple making communities is so important for the ongoing encouragement of disciple makers. The core elements of these communities are always accountability, prayer and celebration.

    "The secret sauce to becoming a disciple maker is simply being with a group of other people who all want to make disciples as well."

    Final encouragement

    Jim finishes this episode encouraging us (from 2 Corinthians 5:17-20) that we all have been given the ministry and message of reconciliation as Jesus' ambassadors. Therefore, disciple making is not what we do, it is the essence of who we are.

    Purchase your copy of Jim's book here.

    • 23 min
    123. Pray and Share with Jim Britts

    123. Pray and Share with Jim Britts

    This episode, we begin our conversations with movement catalyst Jim Britts who has just released a new book, 21 Days to Becoming a Disciple Maker. 

    Jim’s story

    In 2018, after serving as a pastor for 20 years, Jim had a middle-of-the-night encounter with God who said, 

    “Jim, I love the story of your church but you’ve missed the whole point. I called you to make disciples that make disciples and you’re not.” 

    He started reading everything he could get his hands on about disciple making. This soon led Jim to discover what God was doing around the world through DMM. 

    He was rocked by one stat from a Gallup survey. It showed how the church in North America had shrunk by 23 percent from 1999 to 2019. This statistic was especially challenging to Jim since he had started full-time ministry in 1999. 

    He says, “So, on my watch 1 out of 4 people had left the church. Even though I was loving what was happening in my own ministry, I felt that the only thing that really mattered was seeing lostness being penetrated.” 

    In California, where Jim lives, he tells us how 65% of people are saying, “We are never going to church”. 

    Jim says, “In our culture, we have taught the non-Christian that they’re the missionary. If they want to find God, they have to leave their comfort zone. But the game changer for me was when I realised that the Great Commission and Gospels teach us that we are the ones who are supposed to leave our comfort zones. We were to meet these people (the 65%) where they’re at."

    “My life doesn’t look like a harvest worker!”

    Jim resonated with Chris Galanos’ similar discontentment and started going through his DMM training. He was struck, for example, by how he’d never made the obvious connection that Matthew 10 is a detailed description of what a harvest worker is who Jesus urges us to be praying for from the end of the previous chapter (Matthew 9:35-38). It dawned on him, “My life doesn’t look like a harvest worker!”. 

    Over the last five years, as Jim learned to become a disciple maker himself, others joined him as almost everything in terms of ministry for him changed. These days, generation 1 churches and generation 2 groups are being birthed!

    Habits of a disciple maker

    Jim describes how the simplest way to cast vision for DMM has been to show people the Parable of the Sower (Matt 13:1-23). Despite everyone wanting to be the ‘good soil’, nine out of ten Christians say they are in the ‘too busy soil’ (amongst the thorns). Therefore, Jim encourages us that instead of focusing on the results of a disciple maker (that can easily bring discouragement), we can focus on the habits of a disciple maker.

    Jim describes how his church ask each other every week, “Tell me a story about intentional prayer and intentional conversations”…

    Habit #1: Intentional prayer

    Jim tells us how the gateway habit to disciple making is intentionally praying for others. And if we want to be catalysing disciple makers, we need to be spending our time not just praying but multiplying prayer.

    Some of the DMM tools for intentionally praying for others include: 

    The 30 day prayer calendar

    The PrayerMate App

    Phil Alessia’s ‘Pray for 5' (Praying for 5 people, for 5 minutes, 5 times a week)

    Habit #2: Intentional conversations

    Jim encourages us to not just have conversations but always have intentionality when we're interacting with others. 

    • 20 min
    122. Adelaide Case Study with Mike Hey 

    122. Adelaide Case Study with Mike Hey 

    We hear from Mike Hey again who is introduced to us by one of our leaders Jerry, who along with his wife Katie and their family, are pioneering DMM in South Australia. They are connecting with local leaders like Mike from OM who shares with us what disciple making looks like for him in Adelaide.

    Sailing boats blown by the wind of the Spirit  

    Mike starts by encouraging us with a picture: We are all building teams of disciple-makers and seeking to see them sail as small boats, catching the wind of the Spirit.

    ‘Jungle Bible College’

    Mike and Ann were trained in what Mike calls an Indian ‘Jungle Bible College’ through sacrificial prayer and key people like Victor John since the 1970s. After leaving and starting to hear of movements happening back in India, they have sought to catalyse work amongst the unreached ever since. 

    Adelaide, the city of the church

    Mike describes that church as ‘ekklesia’, with all kinds of expressions, is at the heart of DMM. He has learnt how gathering disciples of Jesus is what brings a ‘disciple making momentum’ towards a disciple making movement. Disciples are people who learn to ‘go, gather and grow’ as they engage in prayer, the Word and being led by the Spirit.

    ‘Beautiful Feet’ in Adelaide’s north

    “We were making disciples but not multiplying disciple makers.”

    After returning to Adelaide, Mike shares how he and Ann started to pray and engage with others for Adelaide’s multicultural northern suburbs. They joined a church planting team and began to ask questions about building relational connections and pointing people to Jesus. And so began what Mike describes as a ‘Beautiful Feet’ initiative to see God’s people  activated in witness as they walk together to make disciples who will make disciples. He describes it as something that is gathering ‘disciple making momentum not yet movement’.

    Mike says how those who are part of this initiative are followers of Jesus from lots of churches who are seeking to simply…

    Walk with Jesus. 

    Walk with a friend. 

    And walk alongside others as they make disciples who will make disciples. 

    Mike’s paradigm shifts and lessons learned

    From outreach to ‘in-reach’: Seeing disciples made through an insider movement is key.

    From addition (get them into the church) to multiplication 

    From gathering to grow to gathering to grow, go and scatter

    Take your fishing rod (fish for people around you) but remember the Holy Spirit is weaving and casting a larger net, not us (each of us are a strand on this net). 

    Keep walking, the river will rise. 

    Stay in the mud until it clears. (Don’t jump out when it gets tough.)

    Grassroots prayer leads to green shoots of life. Prayer onsite brings insight. 

    Its all about relationship - keep gathering to scatter (multiply). 

    Taking church to the park

    Mike shares how once a quarter, he takes an established local church into their local park to do a DBS. He then helps this church to invite everyone in their neighbourhood to a community BBQ gathering. This is where a smaller group of Christians search for People of Peace. More regular DBS and BBQs can then happen.  

    Mike prays for our cities and challenges us

    “We pray for green shoots of authentic worship to rise in every neighbourhood across our cities”

    • 39 min
    121. Dave Coles – Cabbages in the Desert #2

    121. Dave Coles – Cabbages in the Desert #2

    In this episode, we continue on from last week’s conversation with Dave Coles, hearing about his exciting new book release, ‘Cabbages in the Desert’, the story of Aila Tasse. A story of a young Muslim being called by Jesus to see movements birthed across East Africa. Today we continue to draw out from Dave the DMM principles of how we are going to see movements in the West. 

    Cabbages in the Desert is available here.

    “Baheesi have you become a pastor!?”

    Dave shares the stories of Baheesi and Ruth that demonstrate how simple obedience by seemingly ‘insignificant’ men and women can lead to seeing movements launched. These African leaders have impressed Dave with their calm confidence and a Holy Spirit led creativity and flexibility in making disciples in tough Muslim contexts. Because movements are indigenous, the stories of these leaders show us how they start somewhere and shepherd something that God is doing.

    Levels of leadership in movements

    Aila’s paradigm of a so called ‘leadership pyramid’, demonstrates a humble empowerment of others to form teams, hubs and networks that aren’t dependant on one leader or organisation. This ordered leadership process is not an oppressive structure. But instead it identifies where people are at and so allows various types of leaders to develop their gifts and grow. 

    Training through apprenticing 

    DMM training in Africa is highly relational and hands on. Doing life together through an apprenticeship type training model. 

    The lifestyle of a movement leader is summarised by one leader, Albert in the book: 

    “You can only make disciples if you too are a disciple. That means you are a person of prayer. You’re obedient to the Word of the Lord. You're passionate and committed to making disciples and you have patience with them through the process. And you remember that the Lord Jesus was patient with the disciples. He took time to explain the parables. To even allow them to make mistakes. Similarly you are not afraid to release your groups to go on and form their own groups.” 

    What’s next for Dave Coles the author? 

    Through his upcoming books and literature, Dave seeks to continue to show us how God is working globally in creative ways amongst different people. This will include a book of another African leader working amongst Muslims in similar yet different ways. A second book (‘Leadership Breakthrough’) with Victor John will give a much needed Asian voice on leadership. These as well as a number of smaller accounts of various movement leaders from across the world. 

    Dave’s prayer for the West

    “That we would maximise everything we have been given to be like Christ and to be and spread his fragrance among all peoples.”

    Dave’s final encouragement

    “We are privileged to hear how God is using our brothers and sisters in other contexts. But it is not just for them. There are principles that are relevant that we can also apply in our context. These stories are encouraging to our hearts but are also insightfully wise for developing strategy. It’s wonderful for us to follow Jesus and follow in the footsteps of those he is using powerfully to touch the ends of the earth.”

    This is the continuation of the amazing stories of movements that are being catalysed that we’ve been hearing out of East Africa from other leaders like Justin and Wilson

    You can listen to our previous podcasts with these leaders by selecting a link to the Podcast episode below: 

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