Cracking Copy Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride

Without a deep understanding of who you are selling to, your chances of writing successful copy that converts is going to be a damn sight harder.
 
In this episode of Cracking Copy, Ella Hoyos delves into the essential world of customer research with special guest Dr. Mimi Zhou. 
 
Mimi, a conversion copywriter and email strategist, highlights the pivotal role of research in crafting compelling copy. The episode reveals how Mimi acquires accurate customer data without unintentionally introducing bias into the process.
 
You’ll learn her methods for gathering valuable insights, including mining reviews, conducting surveys, and performing interviews. And discover Mimi's techniques for making interviewees comfortable and the strategies she employs to ensure the reliability and accuracy of her data.
 
Copyhackers supremo, Jo Wiebe describes her as “One of those quiet, unexpected copywriting talents very interested in the planning and strategy side of email which is rare to find. [She’s] really curious about how to write emails that convert better and better all the time”.
 
The conversation also explores how to translate research findings into effective copy, using frameworks like the “jobs-to-be-done” timeline and the forces at “the switch”. Mimi shares practical examples and tips for copywriters new to conducting research, emphasising the importance of defining research goals and starting with review mining.
 
Whether you're a seasoned copywriter or just starting out, this episode is packed with actionable advice and insights to help you harness the power of customer research in your copywriting projects.



00:00 - Cracking Copy is a marketing and copywriting podcast where we discuss effective copy
01:02 - Research is a crucial skill for any copywriter
02:32 - Mimi is a conversion copywriter for coaches and service providers
04:29 - Why is customer research so important in the context of copywriting and marketing
07:27 - The different types of research that effective copywriters do
09:17 - Does email list size impact the kind of research you do?
10:58 - What systems work best for capturing responses and data for research projects?
13:21 - Techniques for making interviewees feel comfortable and open up
17:38 - The reason you shouldn’t get too friendly during interviews
21:16 - How to glean insights from research interviews
24:42 - Ensuring that research insights are reliable and representative of target audience
26:11 - How do you translate insights into compelling copy?
33:08 - What advice would you give to copywriters new to conducting market research
 
Resources mentioned in this episode: 
Airstory https://www.airstory.co/
Capture research and use it in your writing - no matter where you write online. Put an end to copying and pasting interesting quotes, data points, images and more you find online.
 
About Mimi
Dr. Mimi Zhou revels in customer research--because when you understand what your audience wants, you don't need to guess what they'll pay you for.
Her conversion copywriting projects are built on a thorough research foundation where she studies info your audience provides through reviews, surveys, interviews, and more. Her ability to parse data into numerical information and read between the lines to hear what customers say beneath the surface helps her understand what customers want even when they don't tell you directly.
A fun fact about Mimi: Her path to becoming a professional researcher began at UC Berkeley and culminated in her PhD at New York University. Later, her belief that knowledge is power led her to seek copywriting training from the original conversion copywriter herself, Joanna Wiebe (founder, Copyhackers). 
So Mimi literally got a professional research degree and then studied copywriting with the best person in the business.
Website: mimizhou.com
instagram.com/mimithezhou/
linkedin.com/in/mimizhou/
For monthly emails that break d

If you’re looking to launch an online course or product, what do you need to think about with regard to marketing collateral and messaging?
 
In this episode of Cracking Copy, Ella and Minnie are looking at the customer journey, from building awareness to the buying stage. And we give you our insights into what you will need to create how to communicate your messaging.
 
Having now been involved in our own course launch, we think we have a far greater insight into what’s involved: all the areas where messaging is important and the need to sometimes tweak your messaging along the way,
 
In this episode, we tell you what we did, what worked and how we could have done it better for the next time we launch.
 
We are going to talk, warts and all, about what we did using our own launch as an example:
 
What did we do?
How we did our research
How we planned
And how we delivered it



If you’re wanting to create a course or product launch now or in the future, you need to tune in, as this episode is for you.
 
Contact us
Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover.
 
Twitter @cracking_copy
Facebook @crackingcopy 
 
➡️  Share this podcast with someone who’ll find it useful  
 
You can also find us at:
 
Instagram:
Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing
Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes
 
LinkedIn:
Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos
Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride
 
Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional copywriters and marketers.  We deep dive into a different aspect of copywriting in each ‘snack-sized’ episode so that we can help you become better writers for your business.
 
Support this podcast!
 
If you found this episode helpful you can show your appreciation by making a donation!  This helps offset the costs of producing the show and we’ll love you for it :) 
 
Buy me a coffee

In this episode, Ella Hoyos sits down with Konrad Sanders, the CEO of The Creative Copywriter, to delve into the transformative power of frameworks in copywriting and content strategy. 
 
Konrad shares how his journey from philosophy graduate, to charity work in Australia, then jobless in Israel, were all necessary prerequisites to heading up a thriving London-based agency.  
 
He reveals how practicing copywriting, figuring out SEO strategy and sharing what he was learning on social media, led to the birth of a business that now boasts an impressive client roster, including Krispy Kreme and Adidas. 
 
We explore the challenges and triumphs of agency life, the importance of a strong team culture, and the delicate dance of maintaining a work-life balance in a remote working world. Konrad also highlights the significance of establishing a meticulous onboarding process that sets the tone for client relationships and ensures a mutual fit.
 
The heart of our conversation beats around "The 13 Lenses" - The Creative Copywriter's proprietary framework that has become their north star in quality assurance and client conversion. Konrad breaks down the concept behind this innovative approach and how it has become a key differentiator in a sea of sameness. 
 
As we look to the future, Konrad offers his insights on generative AI's impact on the industry and advises on the importance of embracing technology while maintaining the creative edge that only human copywriters can provide. 
 
This episode is a treasure trove for anyone looking to elevate their copywriting game, differentiate their services, and stay ahead in a rapidly evolving industry.
 
About Our Guest:
 
Konrad Sanders is the CEO of The Creative Copywriter, a London-based copywriting and content strategy agency. With a background in SEO and a passion for creative writing, Konrad has led his team to success by combining data-driven strategies with the art of persuasive copy.
 
Contact Konrad:
 
LinkedIn: Konrad Sanders - www.linkedin.com/in/KonradSanders
Subscribe to his LinkedIn newsletter "Word Science" for more insights.
 
Contact the Cracking Copy show hosts:
 
Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover.
Or send an email us at: hello@crackingcopy.co.uk
 
➡️  Share this podcast with someone who’ll find it useful  
 
You can also find us at:
 
Instagram:
Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing
Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes
 
LinkedIn:
Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos
Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride
 
Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional copywriters and marketers.  We deep dive into a different aspect of copywriting in each ‘snack-sized’ episode so that we can help you become better writers for your business.
 
Support this podcast!
 
If you found this episode helpful you can show your appreciation by making a donation!  This helps offset the costs of producing the show and we’ll love you for it :) 
 
Buy me a coffee
 
 

Tempted to peak behind the curtain to see how a podcast is assembled? 
Then this episode is for you!
In this 30 minute show, we break down our process for Cracking Copy, from planning to recording, editing to hosting and promotion to publishing.
It's the second part of our 2 part mini-series on how we started the podcast and what's involved on a week by week basis.
We also explore some of the key factors in determining what will make YOUR show a success, should you want to start your own podcast.   
Know this - it's totally within your reach! 
***************************************
LEARN HOW
 Did you know we have created a fantastic short course for wannabe Indie Podcasters who want to learn the skills of podcasting for themselves?
To whet your appetite we have a FREE masterclass taking place on Thursday 15 Feb, to kick off the launch.  Join us as we help you bring your inkling of an idea kicking and screaming into life.  We'll help you nail your concept and align it with your business goals.  
It’s from 1-2pm GMT on Thursday 15th February. Register your interest HERE.
You’ll then be on the list to receive all the details.
We'll also be spilling the beans on our brand new 90 day program to Launch Your Indie Podcast.  It comes with 30 days of live support, accountability and weekly coaching to ensure that you have everything you need to get up and running on your very own podcasting journey.
The course serves business owners, marketing managers and service providers who want to create their own podcast for themselves or their company. 
It offers immense value for two distinct groups of people.  It's for YOU if you want to start your own podcast, AND it's for YOU if you want to learn the skills of podcasting so you can offer this as a service to your clients and colleagues.
***********************************
Hop back to the previous episode (part 1 of Podcasting for Beginners) to discover:
An overview of the podcasting industry, why it’s booming and the opportunities out there


The challenges that you might face and how to overcome them


Our podcasting story. An insight into why we started and how it’s going. It’s also ‘National Storytelling Week’ so it’s timely!


Finding your why


Your podcasting goals


So tune in, sit back, listen, and let us know what you think of this episode and get in touch if you have great hooks to share with us. Do continue the conversation by leaving us a message and getting in touch. Contact deets below.
 
Resources
 
Free Podcasting Webinar Workshop 15/02/24 @1.00pm GMT, Launch Your Indie Podcast 
 
Contact us
Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover.
➡️  Share this podcast with someone who’ll find it useful  
 
You can also find us at:
 
Instagram:
Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing
Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes
 
LinkedIn:
Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos
Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride
 
Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional copywriters and marketers.  We deep dive into a different aspect of copywriting in each ‘snack-sized’ episode so that we can help you become better writers for your business.
 
Support this podcast!
 
If you found this episode helpful you can show your appreciation by making a donation!  This helps offset the costs of producing the show and we’ll love you for it :) 
 
Buy me a coffee
 
Twitter @cracking_copy
Facebook @crackingcopy 

Today’s episode of Cracking Copy is the first of a two-parter on podcasting for beginners.
 
It is a subject a little removed from our usual copywriting tips, however it has been and is, a great marketing tool for both of us and we wanted to share our own pod-story to hopefully inspire you to think seriously about whether you have a podcast in you too!
 
Cracking Copy is 18 months old now and we have learnt so much about this incredible medium and we want to share some insider tips with you from our audio broadcasting journey.
 
Why? Because if you’re anything like us, passionate about our craft and authentic community building, you are possibly a tiny bit curious about how podcasting works and if it’s worth it. You may have no idea what you might podcast about or maybe you’re brimming with ideas but you have an inkling that podcasting might be a good move for you.
 
In this first part episode we’re talking about:
 
An overview of the podcasting industry, why it’s booming and the opportunities out there
The challenges that you might face and how to overcome them
Our podcasting story. An insight into why we started and how it’s going. It’s also ‘National Storytelling Week’ so it’s timely!
Finding your why
Your podcasting goals
 
Next time in part 2 we are going into the nitty gritty of the production process: pre-planning, planning, recording, editing, publishing and promoting. We’ll also dive into audience and competitor research tactics, market research, content pillars and what we do! If you don’t want to miss out on the next episode, don’t forget to hit subscribe in your podcast player.
 
FREE WORKSHOP 
 
If you are interested in exploring your podcasting ideas further we are hosting a free webinar workshop designed to help you work through what and how you might podcast. It’s from 1-2pm GMT on Thursday 15th February. Register your interest HERE.
 
So tune in, sit back, listen, and let us know what you think of this episode and get in touch if you have great hooks to share with us. Do continue the conversation by leaving us a message and getting in touch. Contact deets below.
 
Resources
 
Free Podcasting Webinar Workshop 15/02/24 @1.00pm GMT, Launch Your Indie Podcast 
 
Contact us
Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover.
 
Twitter @cracking_copy
Facebook @crackingcopy 
 
➡️  Share this podcast with someone who’ll find it useful  
 
You can also find us at:
 
Instagram:
Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing
Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes
 
LinkedIn:
Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos
Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride
 
Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional copywriters and marketers.  We deep dive into a different aspect of copywriting in each ‘snack-sized’ episode so that we can help you become better writers for your business.
 
Support this podcast!
 
If you found this episode helpful you can show your appreciation by making a donation!  This helps offset the costs of producing the show and we’ll love you for it :) 
 
Buy me a coffee

In this episode, Ella sits down with a remarkable guest, Claire Cunningham, a former school teacher turned copywriter, who not only cracked the code to writing captivating copy but also expanded her skills to specialise in website and UX copywriting.
It’s another dive deep into the world of writing that sells, persuades, and connects. 
 
In this 30-minute episode you will learn:
 
✔️ Why writers must consider the reader's journey as much as the message they deliver
✔️ How Claire pivoted from teaching to proofreading to powerhouse copywriting
✔️ What a great user experience journey looks like
✔️ Understanding the users journey via a well-known brand that has UX nailed 
✔️ How to figure out what a great UX journey looks like for your audience 
✔️How you can apply UX copywriting principles to your own business



⭐ Episode Highlights ⭐
 
Claire shares her inspiring journey from a humble start in proofreading to becoming a force in the world of copywriting. How did her teaching background shape her approach to crafting compelling narratives? Listen in to find out.
 
We explore the pivotal role of website and UX copy in creating an immersive online experience for users with real-life examples.
 
In an era where attention spans are shorter than ever, we emphasise the importance of considering the user's journey when crafting online content. Learn how to guide your readers seamlessly through your website while delivering a powerful message.
 
Claire breaks down the symbiotic relationship between user experience (UX) and copy. Discover how a well-crafted user experience can enhance the impact of your copy and drive meaningful engagement.
 
Whether you're a seasoned content creator or just starting out, Claire shares practical tips on how to integrate user experience considerations into your writing process. Uncover the secrets to keeping your audience engaged from the first click to the final call to action.
 
Join us for an eye-opening conversation that proves the power of words extends beyond the message itself. Elevate your copywriting game and enhance the online experience for your audience, so they come back time after time.
 
 About Claire Cunningham
 
Claire is a UX-informed copywriter and mum from North East Scotland who is passionate about crafting engaging website copy that elevates user experiences. Specialising in aligning brand voice with user-friendly, conversion-focused content, Claire’s business, Word Craft, offers services including website copy, SEO-driven blogs, email campaigns and case studies.
With a specialism in crafting strategic websites with a deep understanding of UX principles, Claire understands how words (and design!) are crucial in shaping user experience. 
With a background as an English teacher and school leader, founding Word Craft was fuelled by a passion for refining ideas and messaging. Claire has a nurturing approach to supporting small business owners providing not just copy but the tools and strategies to empower their own content creation. Offering a flexible approach, no project is too small or too big — Claire offers tailored support to meet diverse needs. 
 
Contact Claire
 
Website: www.wordcraftservices.co.uk
Email: hello@wordcraftservices.co.uk



Connect with her community on Instagram
Connect with her on LinkedIn
 
Contact us
Please drop us a voice note at memo.fm/crackingcopy and let us know what you think or what topics you want us to cover.
 
Twitter @cracking_copy
Facebook @crackingcopy 
 
➡️  Share this podcast with someone who’ll find it useful  
 
You can also find us at:
 
Instagram:
Ella Hoyos - @flurrymarketing
Minnie McBride - @minnie__writes
 
LinkedIn:
Ella Hoyos - https://www.linkedin.com/in/ellahoyos
Minnie McBride - https://www.linkedin.com/in/minniemcbride
 
Ella Hoyos and Minnie McBride are co-hosts of this podcast.  We are professional c