Data Gathering to Assess Patients Needs - Part 2

In this episode, guest host Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf, Director of Breast Medical Oncology at Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center – Jefferson Health examines the role providers play in collecting social determinants of health data from cancer patients to assist with receiving the care they need. Dr. Abu-Khalaf is joined by Dr. Luis Raez, Co-Director of Memorial Cancer Institute of Florida Atlantic University and Whitney Renau, Patient Care Coordinator of Hematology and Oncology from North Florida and South Georgia Veteran Health Services.

TRANSCRIPT

The guests on this podcast episode have no disclosures to declare.a

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: Social Determinants of Health in Cancer Care podcast. I'm Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf, Director of Breast Medical Oncology and Interim Chief of Cancer Services at the Sidney Kimmel Cancer Center at Jefferson Health. I'm joined today by Dr. Luis Raez, Co-director of the Memorial Cancer Institute at Florida Atlantic University and Florida Cancer Center of Excellence, and Whitney Renault, patient care coordinator of hematology and oncology for North Florida and South Georgia Veteran Health Services. Thank you both for being a part of the conversation on data gathering. 

Dr. Luis Raez: It's a pleasure to be here.

Whitney Renau: Thank you for having me. 

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: In this episode, we will discuss the challenges and barriers to collecting and documenting social determinants of health information for patients after a diagnosis of cancer. Our guests will share their experience in collecting social determinants of health information from patients and share who in their clinical team has been tasked to assist in obtaining this information. Last episode, we discussed data gathering from a patient's perspective, but we'd love to know why you both believe it's important to address social determinants of health and social needs when providing care for your cancer patients. 

Dr. Raez, would you like to just give us your thoughts on the importance of social determinants of health? 

Dr. Luis Raez: Yes. Thank you. I am a medical oncologist. I'm a director of the cancer center here at Memorial and South Florida. It's a public healthcare system. I practice lung cancer. And as much as the social determinants of health topic is a topic that many medical oncologists believe is not ours, that is in the realm of the social worker or somebody else, there's no way to avoid that. Because when you are providing the best target therapy of the world or the best immunotherapy of the world, and the patient has insurance, and you see that the outcomes are not the outcomes that you see in the clinical trials, you see that there is something else other than the biology that has an influence. That is why I consider the social determinants of health very important. In our own cancer center, we have several publications about target therapy, immunotherapy in black patients or Hispanic patients that clearly show inferior outcomes, despite the fact that they are getting the same drugs, the same doctors, the same care that we provide. That's why we're considering our healthcare system, as I said, Memorial Healthcare system, that very important topic that we have been trying to address for the last years.

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: Thank you so much. Whitney, would you like to add to this?

Whitney Renau: Absolutely. Exactly. It indirectly affects all the outcomes or overall disease survival. If they can't get to the treatments, if they don't eat well during the treatments, if they don't have support during the treatments, it's going to negatively impact all of the outcomes. We do a great job in being able to pay for the drugs and have great regimens, but if we can't get them to the drugs and the regimens and keep them coming, they're going to have overall poor disease survival rates. 

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: Absolutely. Thank you for that. Well, let's touch on the physician and clinician perspectives. Dr. Raez, there has been a lot of interest in evaluating the impact of SDOH and patient social needs on cancer care delivery. Can you tell our listeners how you ask your patients about SDOH and their social needs and does it happen during the clinic visit or at a later time point?

Dr. Luis Raez: The point of collecting the data of SDOH is the first step because even though you don't have an idea what is the impact of this, that is why in our healthcare system, we are 2000 doctors, we have created a dashboard of SDOH, social determinants of health, that basically we collect 13 of them from social connections, tobacco use, depression, transportation, physical activity, etc.. So this is a dashboard that is embedded in the EMR. So when the physician opens the EMR, if he has, on the left side, the vital signs, the dashboard of SDOH is on the right side with the medications, allergies, everything. So in that way, the physician cannot really ignore it because it's part of his dashboard. 

So we figured out this working with Epic Systems, Epic is one of the most popular EMRs in the United States and this has the capability to do that. So, we were working at the level of the healthcare system, not only for cancer but for everything else. Now that we have these 13 SDOHs, what we do is we are trying to flag a green or red, depending on what deficiency the patient has. You know, if the patient has food insecurity, there is a red. If the patient has transportation it is a green. So the physician can easily see if there is any red in the SDOH dashboard that can bring awareness about if there is something wrong that needs to be addressed. And as we said before, I cannot expect that the patient will have a great outcome if I'm looking at a bunch of reds in the SDOH dashboard, despite the fact that I have the best chemos in the world on the left side.

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: And are you as a physician collecting this information during the clinic visit? Or is there someone in your office that does that before they go into the clinic space to see you?

Dr. Luis Raez: The dashboard, we already have the template of the dashboard, and then it's being populated by the social workers. When you get a new patient, you come as a new patient in the cancer center, you interview the social workers, the nutritionist, the multidisciplinary team, and then we start to populate the dashboard. But as you understand, also collecting data one time is not enough. The necessities can change. The patient may have transportation one year, next year, no. So, once that dashboard is created and kept by the social workers, the medical assistants in each visit briefly ask the patient if something has changed. The same when they change age, any of your medication has changed, and the medical assistant has to fix it if you have a new drug or not, the medical assistant keeps track of the dashboard whether it is updated or outdated.

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: Okay, wonderful. So it's continuity of care. It's not something that you just would do one-time point. Every time they come in, the MA makes sure that it's updated, and you as a physician, during the clinic visit, will address any of the social needs that are identified or flagged to you.

Dr. Luis Raez: Yeah, or if I cannot address them because some of them are out of my expertise, for example, the patient may be the patient lost insurance. Now it's January 2, and the patient lost insurance. But at least if I see that red flag, I refer the patient to the social worker immediately because now we need to fix insurance. The patient just lost insurance or something like that. You cannot pretend to ask the doctors to fix these things by themselves because the doctors are really very reticent, very negative about doing more clicks. That's why when you present this to the doctors, the first reaction is everybody goes to the back like, “Oh, my God, they're giving me more work.” 

But it doesn't have to be like that. That's why we work as a team. We want you, at least at the minimum, that the doctor has to do, is notify the social worker, send a- it’s a couple of clicks in the EMR. So we know that this needs to be addressed. We are not asking the doctors to fix things because otherwise, the doctors get against this because they think it's more work for me in the less time, and I don't get paid anything extra, and it's not my problem. It's not like that. It's the same thing when you see that the blood pressure is high, and you notify the nurse to give a pill. Now the SDOH has red flags, and I will notify the social worker to please fix this or the nutritionist or somebody else in the cancer center that can address this. 

Dr. Maysa Abu-Khalaf: And I think that's very important because this comes up a lot. How much work is it? Can you really fit it in during a clinic visit? And the way that you've outlined this, it's a team of clinicians and staff that need to address this collectively and longitudinally. It's not a one-time point where you address it and you move on. 

Whitney, can you tell us, since your work has been with veterans, are there templates or guidelines that you found useful when asking patients about SDOH and social risks? 

Whitney Renau: Great question. Thank you. And that sounds like, again, one of the reasons my job exists is to help physicians, such as yourself, be able to keep determining along the continuum of care what's going on with the vet and if they are having changes. We use the NCCN distress thermometer and problem list, and the nurses actually in our infusion are seeing every single patient and assessing them upfront, and then if they score higher than a four they're being sent to the social worker to be able to assess for needs support. And then we actually are creating a consult to kind of flush out