Developers Who Test

Testery, Inc

A podcast for developers who ship better software. We talk about all things software testing.

  1. JAN 13

    Developer Productivity Metrics: DORA, SPACE, and What Really Drives Team Performance with Martijn Goossens

    Martijn Goossens is Director of Advisory Services at Cerios, a Dutch QA company with approximately 450 employees. Martijn has about 20 years of experience helping teams improve their quality and implement test automation. He is a regular speaker at developer and software quality conferences. In this episode, Chris talks with Martijn Goossens about developer experience, productivity metrics, and what actually drives team performance. Martijn shares insights from his recent conference talk at Hustef and breaks down the key frameworks teams use to measure their effectiveness. The conversation explores the DORA metrics (deployment frequency, lead time for changes, change failure rate, and mean time to recovery) and the SPACE framework (satisfaction/wellbeing, performance, adaptiveness/momentum, communication/collaboration, and efficiency/flow). Martijn explains why he prefers DORA for its practical, quantifiable nature, while SPACE tends to be more subjective and developer-focused. Key topics include: The Dutch testing community: Why the Netherlands has become a hub for software testing innovation and how strong community connections accelerate professional growthMeeting culture and productivity: The value of no-meeting days, the danger of "Swiss cheese calendars," and how to prepare teams for focused work timeHackathons and innovation: Different approaches to fostering creativity, from quarterly hackathons to dedicated innovation time, plus Chris's "hackcation" conceptIndividual vs. team metrics: Why metrics should be treated as sensors providing information rather than judgment tools, and the cautionary tale of the "Cobra problem" where rewarding the wrong behaviors leads to perverse outcomesThe flight level concept: How management can monitor high-level metrics and only drill down when signals indicate a problemMartijn emphasizes that metrics don't tell the whole story --- they help you know what questions to ask and who to ask them to. A developer with fewer commits might be the team's primary reviewer or architect, while someone with many commits might just be making small edits. Context matters. The episode wraps up with Martijn's experience speaking at Hustef in Hungary (held in a train museum complete with miniature train rides) and his upcoming keynote in Tokyo.

    44 min

  2. 01/24/2025

    Elevating Software Testing in 2025 with Ashish Ghosh

    In this episode of Developers Who Test, we meet Ashish Ghosh, Quality Assurance Architect at ING Bank. Ashish shares his journey from manual testing to leading ING's Quality Center of Excellence, emphasizing the critical shift from tool-centric approaches to fostering analytical and customer-focused mindsets. From pivotal moments that transformed ING's approach to quality to the broader implications of poor-quality software—such as life-threatening incidents and massive financial losses— we discuss how organizations can rethink their strategies. We delve into the importance of leadership's role in prioritizing quality, the dangers of over-relying on automation without critical thinking, and practical steps businesses can take to build a "quality first" culture.

    47 min

  3. 01/15/2025

    Demanding Better Products with Dave Monk

    In this episode of the Developers Who Test podcast, we meet Dave Monk, a software tester at Apple, and learn about his journey into software testing, the importance of QA, and the challenges faced in the industry. The episode explores the courage required to build quality software, the need for consumers to demand better products, and the evolving role of testers in an AI-driven world. ⁠Dave Monk on LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Chris Harbert on LinkedIn Sponsored by Testery

    46 min

  4. 12/17/2024

    Testing Drones with Gabe Smith

    In this episode of the Developers Who Test podcast, Chris Harbert interviews Gabe Smith, a software quality assurance engineer at Teal Drones. They discuss Gabe's journey into quality assurance, the differences between developer and tester mindsets, and the unique challenges of testing physical devices like drones. Gabe shares insights on hardware failures, the importance of data analysis, and creative testing scenarios. The conversation also touches on the real-world consequences of poor quality and offers advice for aspiring SDETs looking to transition into the aviation sector. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Developers Who Test Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠Gabe Smith on LinkedIn Chris Harbert on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Testery

    42 min

  5. 09/10/2024

    Site Reliability Engineering with Evan Niedojadlo

    In this episode, Chris Harbert interviews Evan Niedojadlo, an engineering manager and product operations at Peddle, about his journey from test engineering to site reliability engineering. They discuss the role of site reliability engineering, the differences between big and small companies in terms of site reliability engineering, and how to test infrastructure. They also explore the reasons for switching testing frameworks and the challenges of transitioning to new frameworks. In this conversation, Evan Niedojadlo, an engineering manager at Peddle, discusses the transition from test engineering to being an SRE. They also talk about infrastructure testing, migration, and testing at different stages of the pipeline. Evan shares insights into the challenges and benefits of migrating to new tools and frameworks, as well as the importance of enabling teams to contribute to testing. ⁠⁠⁠Developers Who Test Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Evan Niedojadlo on LinkedIn Chris Harbert on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Testery

    44 min

  6. 08/22/2024

    Burnout & Career Paths with Christine Fletcher

    In this episode, Christine Fletcher shares her journey from being a nurse to becoming a developer and then an SDET. She talks about her burnout in nursing and her desire to do something she's passionate about. Christine started learning HTML and CSS to build a website and eventually went through a bootcamp to become a UI/UX developer. She later transitioned into a QA lead role, where she focuses on both manual and automation testing. Christine discusses the challenges of balancing automation and manual testing in a fast-paced environment. She also shares her interest in project management and consulting for the future. ⁠⁠⁠Developers Who Test Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Christine Fletcher on LinkedIn Chris Harbert on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Testery

    47 min

  7. 07/11/2024

    Risk Based Testing with Adam Sandman

    In this episode, Adam Sandman, CEO of Inflectra, discusses the importance of risk in business and software development. He explains that while revenue and expenses can be predicted and controlled, risk is often unexpected and disruptive. He emphasizes the need for businesses to understand and measure the impact and probability of risks and take measures to protect against them. Adam also highlights the role of software testers in managing risk within an organization, stating that their job is to explore and present the risks to decision-makers so they can make informed decisions. The conversation also touches on the challenges of assessing risk accurately and the potential future of regulated software development. The conversation explores risk-based testing and its role in prioritizing tests and managing risk in software development. It discusses how to identify and prioritize risks, map them to user stories and tests, and use risk scores to determine the most critical tests. The conversation also touches on the impact of observability and rollbacks on risk management, the influence of architecture on risk, and the importance of communication and collaboration between testers and developers. The pragmatic approach to risk and testing based on experience is highlighted. ⁠⁠Developers Who Test Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Adam Sandman on LinkedIn Chris Harbert on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Testery

    43 min

  8. 05/15/2024

    Holistic Quality with Lisa Crispin

    In this episode, Chris Interviews Lisa Crispin, co-author of Agile Testing: A Practical Guide for Testers and Agile Teams. Lisa advocates for a holistic testing approach and highlights the need for collaboration and diverse perspectives in testing. She also discusses the benefits of pair programming and ensemble programming in improving code quality and preventing bugs ⁠Developers Who Test Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Lisa Crispin's Website Chris Harbert on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Sponsored by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Testery

    46 min
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About

A podcast for developers who ship better software. We talk about all things software testing.

Information

  • Creator
    Testery, Inc
  • Years Active
    2023 - 2026
  • Episodes
    22
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Testery, Inc
  • Show Website
    Developers Who Test