Five and Nine: Tarot, Work and Economic Justice Dorothy R. Santos, Xiaowei R. Wang, AX Mina

Introducing Five and Nine Live!
Following up on Episode 4.07. Awakening the Healer, we present our very first live podcast recording — a special episode for Season 4 recorded live at the Center for the Enlightenment Arts in Bushwick, Brooklyn, at Gathering Future Ancestors: a meditative experience of immersive storytelling, participatory art, and sound — exploring water as an entryway to our shared humanity.
In this discussion, host AX Mina and guest Helen Banach talk about multihyphenate life, the practice of healing and the difference between holding space and holding pain. They close with a tarot reading for the collective using the Mixed Signals Tarot deck designed by M Eifler, with insights on how to navigate grief, cultivate care and tend to the fire within all of us to build differently in this time of deep crisis.
The Season 4 finale will be coming out in the next few weeks. In the meantime, check out our most recent episodes with the 2023 residents of One of Many Studio’s Wadi Rum residency:
* Azad's Kite: Art in a Time of Crisis
* Learning to Trust the Gut
* It's More Clear at the Bottom
* PLUS a bonus minisode of our Embodied Water Practice
Tarot Cards Discussed
* Five of Cups
* Seven of Cups
* Eight of Wands
* Queen of Swords (aka Maker of Swords in the Mixed Signals Deck)
Images of the cards are available at thisisfiveandnine.com.
Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design studio at the intersection of healing and justice work. We envision a movement of Future Ancestors built through transformative, intentionally curated experiences. Connect with OoM on Substack.
Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate.


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

“I was always the busy one,” says our guest Hana of her life before COVID lockdowns. In this final interview of Season 4, we talk about the power of being by oneself, how it feels to jump back into a familiar line of work, and the importance of intuition. We look at present-day Petra, the famous city of stone nestled in southern Jordan, and we close with a tarot reading that captures the essence of acceptance in the face of change. Also: remembering to look up.
Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq, recorded live in Wadi Rum.
Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design studio at the intersection of healing and justice work. We envision a movement of Future Ancestors built through transformative, intentionally curated experiences.
Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.
In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. 


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

Symbolic language is at the heart of magic and also at the heart of human expression. In this minisode, Five and Nine joins Adelle Lin, an artist and technologist who explores the poetry of water and the Arabic, Chinese and Hebrew languages in the desert. We talk about time, displacement, and what it feels like to roll a 160 foot scroll down the side of a hill. Also: Ana offers a reflection on deep time and where water comes from.
Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season recorded on location, with the majority of our episodes produced in the beautiful Wadi Rum desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM).Music performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq, recorded live in Wadi Rum.
Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. OoM works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.
Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.
In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. 


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

This is Five and Nine, a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We’re in the midst of Season 4, recorded online and on location in the Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, but we wanted to take a brief look back at Season 3 with a “retro” episode with One of Many co-founder Nour Batyne.
Futures thinker, artist and creative producer Nour Batyne reminds us to slow down to the speed of presence. The future is not just space travel and new technology but the legacy we leave as future ancestors. We'll hear from Nour how she decided to make the leap from the nine to five life into starting her own studio, and we'll learn about the influence of her teita, or grandmother, on her life and practice, and why land acknowledgements are so important.
Nour offers a meditation that helps us face the climate crisis by honoring our interconnectedness, and we'll hear her and her cousin sing an Arabic Galilean folk song in honor of her grandmother. Also: why the smell of jasmine means freedom.
Season 3’s focus was about rest. In a time of extended crisis, permacrisis and polycrisis, taking time to decompress is not just a benefit but a necessity. Learning to slow down, reflect and make space for expansive thinking is part of what makes rest so sweet but also so elusive. Grab a blanket, turn down the lights, and turn up Five and Nine this season to hear new perspectives on the age old practice of reflection, rejuvenation and recovery.
About Our Guest
* One of Many Studio, co-founded by Nour Batyne and Britt Pham
* Wadi Rum Residency
Tarot Cards Discussed
* Two of Swords
Resources
* Umm Kulthum
* Levina Li
* Seven Generation Principle
Music
* Episode: That soothing serenade (Was just written for me), composed by Harry De Costa and performed by Henry Burr, 1918.
* Closing: يما مويل الهوا (Yamma Mweil Al Hawa), performed by Nour Batyne and Bushra Batyne at Bars for Thought, an open mic poetry night in Brooklyn, 2023.


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

It’s the still of winter here in the northern hemisphere as the solstice arrives, and we just have a few more episodes of Season 4 left.
In this bonus minisode, Season 4 co-hosts Britt Pham and Nour Batyne of One of Many Studio offer a meditation that helps us face the climate crisis by honoring our interconnectedness.
“We are gathering among unceded waters,” they offer. “These waters hold the legacy and the souls of ancestors who stewarded them with humanity in the face of violence and inhumanity. We honor them.”
Related episodes:
* 🌚 3.04. Transformation in Slowing Down, with Nour Batyne
* 🌚 Bonus Episode: A Meditation for Aliveness, by Britt Pham
Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio (OoM), an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. OoM works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.
Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.
In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability. 


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe

What does it feel like to awaken to a new calling? Artist, art producer, and art historian Helen Banach sits down with us to talk about embodying these multiple labels alongside her newest one — healer. We travel to March 2020, when she became a full-time caregiver just as lockdowns began, and we discuss the multihyphenate life, making mistakes and embodiment. A tarot reading takes us back generations, with a message from Helen’s ancestors. Also: we get a visit from camels, birds and even a few buzzing flies.
Five and Nine Season 4 is about crisis. It’s our first season on location, with the majority of our episodes recorded from the beautiful Wadi Rum Desert in Jordan, thanks to a special artist residency hosted by One of Many Studio (OoM). We ask our guests what’s changed since the beginning of the COVID-19 emergency, and how to think about our relationship to the world, the earth and the people around us.
The deck used in Season 4 is the Mixed Signals Tarot, designed by Season 3 guest M Eifler/BlinkPopShift. Music is performed by Hashim Bin Muaitiq and recorded on location in Wadi Rum.
Season 4 is co-presented with One of Many Studio, an experience design & consulting studio connecting people with what it means to be a Future Ancestor. One of Many works at the intersection of immersive experiences and social change, elevating critical conversations to transform the way we relate to ourselves, each other, and our legacies.
Five and Nine is a podcast and newsletter at the crossroads of magic, work and economic justice. We publish “moonthly” — every new moon 🌚 and full moon 🌝 — , and we provide an ongoing critical discussion through readings, reflections and debate. Five and Nine is produced by Five and Nine Futures Lab, a research, design and strategy consultancy that helps organizations and companies build better futures through the lens of work, care and magic.
In this new world, we’re all rethinking the meaning of work and justice in our lives. Our lives and livelihoods are more essential than ever in identifying ways forward for society that can be grounded in care, compassion and sustainability.


This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit fiveandnine.substack.com/subscribe