For the Love Podcast with Jen Hatmaker - Premium For the Love Podcast

In our ongoing pursuit of peace at the end of the year, Jen sits down with Father James Martin, one of America's most beloved spiritual leaders and a New York Times bestselling author. Known for his thought-provoking books "The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything" and "Learning to Pray," Jen and Father Martin talk about the premises in Father Martin’s new book "Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle," which tells the iconic story of the raising of biblical Lazarus from the dead in a way we guarantee you’ve never heard before. If you’ve been in therapy for any time at all, you might have been advised to let go of things that don’t serve you, and lo and behold, this ancient story of Jesus calling Lazarus from the tomb has wisdom and inspiration for today, and promises to leave you pondering on what you might leave behind in your own tomb for a new life.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“That's one of the reasons I write books to just say to people; being on a path is a human thing and you can read about it if you don't want to talk about it. Other people are going through it and have been through it way before you.” - Father James Martin

“The Gospels should be disorienting. God wants to shake us up a little bit. And there's a great line from the Catholic activist and writer Dorothy Day that 'God comforts the afflicted but also afflicts the comfortable,' which I love, and it should be disorienting. It should shake us up. Jesus was pretty disorienting.” - Father James Martin

"If you have difficulties with one or another way of interpreting the Gospels, you have to say, look-- Jesus constantly is with the poor. It's not ambiguous. 'Blessed are the poor.' I mean, you can't get any more blunt than that, but it's hard for us because it kind of challenges our status quo." - Father James Martin

“Until we can let go of things that prevent us from loving God and getting closer to God, we won't be at peace as much as we could be.” - Father James Martin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Father James Martin - https://bit.ly/3uVRuu6
Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin - https://bit.ly/3RCzmyd
Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article - https://bit.ly/3RH3Ii7
Mary Karr - https://www.marykarr.com/
The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton - https://bit.ly/3REwYqQ
Jesuits - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuits
Six Jesuit Martyrs in El Salvador - https://bit.ly/3ToS0uJ
WWJD (Wiki) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_would_Jesus_do%3F
Augustine of Hippo - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Hippo
Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin - https://bit.ly/48YhQLy

Guest’s Links:
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/?hl=en
Twitter - https://twitter.com/JamesMartinSJ
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/FrJamesMartin/

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

In our ongoing pursuit of peace during the holidays, we’re tackling something this week that we might forget others are facing during the holidays (or perhaps we are trying to trudge through ourselves); grief. Everyone's grief journey is unique, but during a season where “joy” is being pushed 24/7, our grief can feel like it’s 10 times its normal size as we struggle to “show up” in the ways we usually do during the holidays. Our guests this week are here to remind us of several important things, including; it’s okay to grieve during the holidays, and it's perfectly okay to take it slow, to pause, to rest. There's no "right" way to grieve.
And that’s why we’re grateful to have some return visitors to the show, the hosts of the Good Mourning Podcast - Sal and Im. Sally Douglas and Imogene Carn met in 2019 after their mothers suddenly passed away just months apart. Because of their shared grief experience, they met in a grief group and decided to launch a podcast together. They know that grief is intense. It hits you physically, emotionally, spiritually. And even during the holidays, during what should be happy moments. The community they’ve created around the topic of grieving brings people together during what can be a really lonely time and reminds them, they’re not alone. There are others out there who know exactly what you're going through. And it's okay to reach out, to seek help, and to take care of your mental health.
Sal and Im give us coping tools, show us how to establish boundaries when we’re grieving and also remind us; the pain does lessen over time. This is your journey, and you get to decide the pace. It's not a race. It's a process. So, take it one day at a time. You're doing just fine.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes
“The festive season is a time when there can be a lot of pressure to put on a brave face and to be happy and joyful. But if you are experiencing any type of loss, it's really hard, it can be really lonely and it can really amplify the things that you are missing. It's tough. I think just give yourself that permission to feel and know that you don't have to put on a brave face all the time.” - Sally Douglas

“It's really important to honor wherever you're at and try not to judge yourself. If you feel like you want to slow down or you just want to sleep for an entire day, even if it's Christmas Day, honor that and just let yourself be wherever you are in that moment without judging yourself.” - Imogen Carn

“We hear a lot from grievers in our community that the second year is harder than the first year. And that can take a lot of people by surprise because we anticipate that all the firsts are going to be harder, but it takes a long time to even process such a significant loss that's happened in your life.” - Imogen Carn


Resources Mentioned in This Episode
For the Love Episode with Sal & Im - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-40/elephants-in-the-room-part-1-grief-on-your-terms-with-sal-im/
Good Mourning by Sally Douglas and Imogen Carn - https://goodmourning.com.au/book/
The Golden Bachelor - https://abc.com/shows/the-golden-bachelor

Guest’s Links
The Good Mourning Podcast - https://goodmourning.com.au/podcast/
Sal & Im’s Website - https://goodmourning.com.au/
Sal & Im’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/goodmourningpodcast
Sal & Im’s Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa-VkufIMbLoWx-rCAYLFdA
Sal & Im’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/goodmourningpodcast

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

It’s bookclub time - and this month’s selection is a fun change for our readers; a piece of fiction that borders on science fiction (and is quite a bit of a departure for Jen’s usual selections!). "Sea of Tranquility" by Emily St. John Mandel is a poignant exploration of time, space, and human connection. The narrative oscillates between different time periods and geographic locations, from the early 20th-century rural Canada to a future colony on the Moon. The central character, Edwin, a failed novelist turned bureaucrat, is the common thread across these realities. Edwin's life intersects with other characters as they grapple with their personal histories and their places in the universe. In addition to discussing the themes and characters within the book, Jen and Emily go back to the beginning of each of their careers as writers and reminisce what it was like before they hadn’t had a book come out from a publisher, all the way to discussing how Emily’s novel “Station 11” turned into an episodic series for HBO Max (which is a must watch, by the way). We’ll learn how Emily, though writing about time travel, chooses to prioritize people over the devices of time travel in her story, and how she explores trauma and humanity's resilience within the framework of different time periods, effectively underscoring the interconnectedness of events across time and space.


Guest’s Links:
Emily’s Website - https://www.emilymandel.com/
Emily’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/emilystjohnmandel/
Emily’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/emilystjohnmandel/
Emily’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/emilymandel?lang=en

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
The Glass Hotel - https://www.emilymandel.com/the-glass-hotel
Station Eleven by Emily St. John Mandel - https://www.emilymandel.com/station-eleven
Station Eleven (Miniseries on HBO Max) - https://www.max.com/shows/station-eleven/5f205b2b-80b6-47db-be11-35baa657eb4c
All Adults Here by Emma Straub - https://www.emmastraub.net/all-adults-here
Book Club Episode ft. All Adults Here by Emily St.John Mandel - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/jhbc/june-2021-emma-straubs-all-adults-here/
Cixin Liu - https://cixinliu.com/
Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_Atlas_(novel)
The Lola Quartet by Emily St. John Mandel - https://www.amazon.com/Lola-Quartet-Suspense-Thriller/dp/1101911999
The Singers Gun by Emily St. John Mandel - https://www.emilymandel.com/the-singers-gun
Terrace Story by Hilary Leichter - https://www.harpercollins.com/products/terrace-story-hilary-leichter?variant=40991443320866

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
“When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

“If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

“High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

“Most of us have lost all respect for rest. We have great respect for work and we see it as the end all, but we don't really recognize that rest is actually what prepares us to be able to sustain ourselves within the work.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Restorasis - https://www.restorasis.com/
Sacred Rest; Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2
Rest Quiz - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/

Guest’s Links:
Website - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/
Twitter - https://bit.ly/47RTySa

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confi

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:
"In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan

“The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan

“I think the most common thing that happens, and I don't think it's ill intent, but someone says 'Oh, I know. You know what happened to me. I had something just like that.' And it's so sweet. They're trying to relate and they're trying to normalize what's going on, and that can be really helpful. But they're probably wrong. That's the thing. You tell me your thing in five sentences and then I relate to it right away without saying, 'Tell me more. What else? Go on.' I probably don't have your thing right yet.” - Kelly Corrigan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/
Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/
The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt
For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/
Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/
Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast
American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film)

Guest’s Links:
Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/
Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en
Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en
Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/

Connect with Jen!
Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/
Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/
Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker
Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1