From Isolation to Collaboration: Exploring State-Level Education Policy with Paul Manna

In this episode of In the Lead with UCEA, Executive Director Dr. Mónica Byrne-Jiménez talks with Paul Manna, Isabelle and Jerome E. Hyman Distinguished University Professor of Government at William & Mary. 

Mónica and Paul discuss Paul’s career focused on K-12 education, federalism, and policy reform. Paul shares his insights on how states act as educational policy actors and his recent work with the Wallace Foundation to support the preparation and development of high-quality principals. Their conversation also delves into the impact of state-level policies, the importance of leadership within education, and how educational institutions can better collaborate for effective policy implementation.

In the Lead with UCEA  is produced by University FM.

Episode Quotes:

Engaging elected officials in conversations about supporting education leaders.

[05:41] The good news from the education policy [and] education leadership field is there's a lot of evidence that great principals also make differences in schools and in school districts and in the lives of children. And so, obviously, military leaders and business leaders, their jobs aren't identical to what principals do. There's differences. There's important differences, but some of these broad principles of leadership do cut across these arenas, and so I think having conversations with elected officials that remind them about those other contexts where there's parallels that's, in a way, could be a door opener for them to understand the import of this and why it's worth it to train up people and support people who are leading schools, just like we would want to have great people leading businesses, large or small, or leading troops, or whatever it might be. We need great people leading in schools.

Politicians sometimes gloss over the nuanced differences that exist within educational leadership.

[09:28]  I think even within education there could be a better appreciation for the varieties of leadership roles that there are in education, right. And I think state standards in some place, like, they've started to come around to this that it's not necessarily a great idea to just have general standards for leaders because the principal of the school has a different kind of job than the superintendent of the district, right? Or some other leader, like within a school, a teacher who's maybe a department head within a certain program area, or a leader who leads the assessment, part of a district role, or the nutrition part. Like, these are different roles. And so I think having an appreciation for that difference is important. And sometimes politicians, kind of, gloss over that, because they just think leadership is all the same, you know? But to your point, like, it isn't necessarily, and so helping them understand that maybe what you're expecting out of an assistant principal for licensing doesn't necessarily need to be the same thing as what you would expect out of a principal. And you'd want something even different or more for a superintendent, let's say.

Good policy entrepreneurs know how to communicate with policy makers.

[21:15] If you really have an interest in policy and getting involved in conversations to shape policy, then you should have some element of your work that gets your nose into the weeds of how policy is actually carried out. [21:24] Sometimes the worst impulse of faculty, and everybody's fallen prey to this at some point in their career, is that we think we've got these great ideas and these great answers, and then we show up in a room and we're speaking a language that nobody understands. 

Show Links:

• Developing Excellent School Principals to Advance Teaching and Learning Considerations for State Policy
• Faculty Profile | William & Mary
• LinkedIn Profile
• Paul Manna’s Home Page
• Democracy in Five Minutes Podcast
• Google Scholar Page
• Wallace Foundation Reports
• Social Profile on X
• Social Profile on Bluesky