Hard to Market Podcast Chef

Dive into the crowded world of marketing with FiveRings Marketing's CEO, Shaheem Alam. Get insider tips on standing out, offering full-service marketing from cold calls to SEO, and selling in a tech-saturated landscape. If you're navigating a noisy market or craving marketing ingenuity, this episode is your playbook for success!

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

Tackling a saturated market.Unique full-service agency approach.Crafting a robust go-to-market strategy.The power of cold outreach.Evolving sales processes & positioning.
Resources:
FiveRings MarketingPodcast Chef
Connect with Shaheem Alam:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
03:06 - One thing is just with our service offerings, I'm not gonna say the only there, there might be more out there, but I haven't come across an agency right now that's doing full service, meaning we do the outbound sales stuff, your cold calling, cold emailing, LinkedIn prospecting, providing BDRs, SDRs, that kind of service. And then also doing inbound, you know, PPC, LinkedIn ads, Google Ads, SEO, content marketing. 01:32 - Brian: What makes your business difficult to market?Shaheem: Got it. I think what makes our business difficult to market is the fact that there are tons of other agencies out there that are doing something similar or doing the same thing or doing bits and pieces of what we're doing. So there's a lot of competition14:25 - Shaheem: So that's like the first challenge that they come with is like,  they need conversations, they need sales meetings. The other thing, which is something that they don't realize, which I'm starting to have more and more conversations with our clients about is while they think that if they get 15 meetings per month, they're gonna close, 20% of them, 30% of them, and then they're gonna get the revenue and they're gonna close these deals in two, three months and they're gonna hit their series A and it's all gonna be, you know, according to plan.Brian: Sunshine and rainbows.12:11: I think PLG requires like a community, a strong presence online, right? Like a lot of that kind of stuff. A lot of buying from a community. And most startups that we work with don't have that. Like, we don't actually come across PLG being a very like, common tactic that like, that's being employed. We have had clients where they do use it because they had an open source product. And they have a huge community built out of that. We have other clients that will come and they had like, Hey, inbound is working really well because they just figured out ads really, really well. But you need all channels humming still, right? So even if you have your community or you have your inbound ads or organic or your referrals or whatever, you still need that outbound component because this is a channel again. And you wanna, ideally, as you grow, have all channels. 17:32 - We have some documents we share with them too, to creating like a good discovery call, and then what's your next step? Advising them on what that next step should be, and then what should, what it should follow up with afterwards, how to follow up to keep moving these leads along your funnel. So we advise our clients and provide them with some guidance around that.
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the marketing mind of Garrett Hammonds! From teacher aspirations to a marketing maestro, Garrett unravels his journey and spills secrets about standing out in digital marketing. Discover B2B success, conference ROI, and crafting relationships that convert. Get your notepads ready!

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

From teaching to marketing guru.Niche focus in digital marketing.ROI tracking in corporate events.Relationship building in B2B.Tools & insights for marketing success.
Resources:
Nomadic Marketing + SoftwarePodcast Chef
Connect with Garrett Hammonds:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
08:38 - We didn't need something as large scale like a Salesforce or you know, a larger plan on something like a HubSpot. So ActiveCampaign helps us be able to automate what we need to keep people flowing through the pipeline. And that's where we keep up with the lifetime value as well. Other things that we use as tracking measures, we do use Zoom Info as a tool. So we know if companies that we have been keeping up with have visited our website, connects up perfect to GA IV and actually passes those parameters into the reports that we can have there. And then we also use Mixpanel. That one's gonna be just kind of a secondary backup to some of our other tracking. So if something ever goes down, we have mixed panel that can, you know, kind of act as a act as another system to pull in.11:47 -  Being a digital marketing agency, we have some different ways in which, you know, we've pulled in clients through free Google Ads audits and you know, there's all kinds of different pathways that we employ. But I think at the heart of all of that, even when looking at any kind of digital piece, it's always gonna need to come back to a core objective of how can I connect with these businesses, these business owners, the people, the humans on the other side, and really listen to the needs that they have and are we a good fit for helping them? And that's where that relationship piece comes in.10:14 - Garrett: Most of the ones we've gone to have been a big success though. But we've gone to specific industry conferences for the verticals that we serve. So staying away from more general professional conferences and going to very, very specific industry vertical conferences.Brian: So you're using those conferences to nurture relationships, you're continuing to grow the referrals you already had and you're increasing your lifetime value for your current client base. And I think that's like,as a three-legged stool, that's a really a great approach.17:45 - Other clients, people are just searching for very, very specific things on search engines you know, finding a very specific industry publication, we've crossed over at times with traditional marketing and magazine things. It really just depends and it's really important for anybody who's trying to market their business to know your market and what it looks like and know your audience. And it's gonna be one of my, one of my big themes that you may hear from me that, that relationship that links back to knowing your audience.20:22 - It's central because the audience at the end of the day, drives demand and their needs, whether they are always initially aware of them or not, their needs are the thing that is going to make it to where you can actually provide solutions for them. Not make sales, but offer solutions. And I think that's key as well, knowing your skills and your tools. One of the most foundational things that have helped me grow in my career has been this one, knowing tools. I didn't of course graduate with a marketing degree
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of marketing with Ashley Behre as she unravels the knots of marketing hard-to-sell issues like a pro. From small-town authenticity to Las Vegas glitz, Ashley takes us on a journey through the dynamic landscapes of digital marketing, community impact, and the fierce world of engaging tech giants. Don’t miss this invigorating chat that's sure to stir up your marketing spirits!

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

SEO and content take center stage.Community impact defines agency ethos.Marketing plans are not one-size-fits-all.Inspiring leadership is marketing gold.Strategic community engagement is key.
Resources:
The Abbi AgencyPodcast Chef
Connect with Ashley Behre:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
15:47 - Ashley: I think the key thing there is the big hearts. We need to find those people because we're the ones who can bring bold to life in a way.Brian: That's awesome. So that sort of charity or community engagement-driven approach to marketing is something that's pretty, a pretty strong differentiator I think for you in the marketplace. 19:29 - I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that you have to make time and space to allow yourself to be inspired. And that like it has been a journey for me. You know, you get into the weeds of everything and time goes by and you kind of forget to stop and smell the roses  per se. But you know, put time on your calendar to read into articles, to walk and listen to a podcast, to find and put yourself in spaces where you can be inspired because that inspiration is what leads to good marketing that matters.07:56 - The best way we're trying to do it in 2024, if I had to boil down our marketing plan in 2024, is show don't tell. I am much more interested in spending time achieving an award that shows the excellence in services rather than telling everyone that I'm really good at what I do, right? So we're doing a lot of that and then I think the next biggest pivot is it's super hard to market to marketers. They're the, we are the biggest critics, right? And I think that's one of the hardest things I find with my job is that my target audience is myself. So I have to really think about and sit down like, what would be of interest to me to learn about? Why, why would I care about that? I I am probably served to the most out of anyone content.17:19 -  The person that we're working with, our partner, and bringing things to life. And I think there's, you cannot forget about the emotional connection with your main point of contact or the people that you're working with because they that might be the draw for you. I will say that the agency also has other elements that may resonate more with potentially the tech clients and that would be our kind of more performance-driven mindset. The test and learning situations that we, build and drive performance from. We try to be as tied to goals and outcomes as possible. Not all industries are as tied to goals as some others are, but making sure that we are as not aggressive is the word, but fierce is, is kind of the word we like to use. 13:26 -  Brian: How are you identifying those?Ashley: Yeah, again, it depends on the market honestly. It's really important to have an authentic approach to each market and to make sure that you're received by the audiences in that market, how best you can be. The best way for me to share that is an approach into the Las Vegas market is very different from how you approach Montana. For example, Las Vegas is a little bit flashier. We have to make the biggest impact we can.
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into a dynamic chat with Beth Trejo, CEO of Chatterkick, as she unveils the transformative journey from boardrooms to the digital world. Discover marketing insights, evolving business strategies, and the social spark igniting company growth.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

Beth unveils Chatterkick's origin story.Powerful SEO tips hidden in plain sight.Social media's role in business hiring.Venturing from local to national circuitsStrategy shift: from high-volume to consultative sales.
Resources:
ChatterkickPodcast Chef
Connect with Beth Trejo:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
19:16 -  Number one is be curious. Always like want to learn more. I think that's really important. Another is to be kind. You never know what someone's going through on the other end of that conversation, whether it's a real conversation or it's a social media conversation. And I think the third is to make sure that you respond, call them back. When they call you, call them back, whatever that looks like. I think too many businesses just ignore their digital phones and they're real people on the other end of this. And I think if you really wanna make business work on social media, you have to form those real human connections.11:27 - I think right now just our field in marketing as a whole is shifting. And I think it will continue. It has, it's always evolved and we're still gonna need people to help tell businesses stories. Like, I don't think that there's going to be a fall or demise of marketing, but I think the way that we're doing it on behalf of businesses is changing at a very, very fast pace. And social media is still a big category of how individuals, especially individuals under the age of 40, want to interact with brands, but businesses are not embracing it at the pace that they really, that their customers want.15:08 - There is all of this other stuff that comes up. And if you don't create that presence for your business, someone else will. Your employees will create it on Glassdoor, your customers will be posting about you on TikTok, you're gonna get out there. But it's just a matter of like, who do you want to tell that story? And sometimes businesses make the strategic choice not to be in that spot, and that's their call.  15:43 - What drives me crazy is when businesses are using preconceived notions or assumptions about their customers without actually going through that journey themselves. Like, have you tried to apply to your own jobs? Have you tried to go through your website and be a customer? Can you find your phone number? and it's those type of things that I think are the big biggest misses that a lot of businesses are just blindsided with.09:51 - You need to make sure you know how to hire the right type of salesperson. In the beginning, we hired high-volume salespeople. And I always call, that's like the hunting dog mindset, right? Just like, go get 'em, go get 'em, go get 'em. And those individuals were great, but because they like need that constant drip of dopamine from a sale, they would sell things that sometimes we didn't even offer, or they would sell things incorrectly because they just wanted the sale. And so we kind of got into a spot where we had to say, hold up. We need someone who can really consul, consultative sell this service. We need them to really understand enough about digital marketing and the tools that we're using. And really they need to want the sale not just for the money, but because they know it's going to be a long-term partnership.
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the dynamic world of podcast marketing with Ilana from Heard of Media and host Brian Mattocks. Uncover the secrets of audience building, relationship forging in B2B podcasting, and the subtle art of podcast promotion. Explore media landscapes and tactics that turn the microphone's magic into a thriving listener base.

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

Boost podcasts by swapping promos.Audience growth is a slow burn.Use YouTube for podcast SEO.Audience indicators for podcast growth.Testing content for audience appeal.
Resources:
Heard of MediaPodcast Chef
Connect with Ilana Susnow:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
24:56 - You bring up an important point and I think it's something to be mindful of for our listeners and that is that even in many ways what's defined as a podcast is now changing, right? It's no longer just an audio that people can listen to while they go for right. It's now an audio plus a video channel plus a TikTok stream plus this, that, and the other thing. And with all of those sort of silos coming down, you have to understand that you're now playing in a media landscape. It's not just that niche conversation and in a media landscape, there's folks that have been in that a lot longer than you have out there doing this work. There are some things that even experienced podcasters can learn about the way media operates to help grow and engage an audience in a meaningful way. 9:13 - Advertising data shows that people traditionally are more likely to buy from a host red ad that they hear in a podcast from a, you know, someone they follow regularly. And by follow, I mean their podcast, necessarily their socials or whatnot, right? They're hearing it in their ears or on the YouTube, on the YouTube channel. Like, I love this product, buy it because that's one of the reasons advertisers love podcasting and that sort of share of ears so much.22:15 - And in success, you'll be able to go on those bigger shows where you can get bigger hits at once. The other thing I think is just a misconception and again I think I did mention this earlier, is social media is great for brand awareness, really hard for it to bring in actual new listeners and downloads. I do think YouTube is changing that a little bit, changing that game. So that's the other big conversation right now in podcasting.30:52 - Brian: In your marketing journey so far, what are your three biggest lessons that you've learned?Ilana: Don't be afraid to test. If you have the bandwidth to do it, be very mindful of how your paid, earned, and owned. Opportunities inform and play against each other. So be ready to continuously optimize and scale those to raise your profile and also your audience not duplicate efforts in the different spaces. 'cause they do overlap a lot and you know, I think you don't need to be on every social platform, but finding the platform that you get the most engagement from with the audience you're targeting or knowing where your audience is, is really where you should be investing your time and your content and adjusting it specific to that audience.13:34 - One of the things with brands that I didn't really focus on earlier, but is a strategic way to think about podcasts especially if you're videoing your podcast, you can break that up and use it as content across all the platforms that your brand exists on. So, you know, you can take this interview and cut it up into moments add subtitles, I mean add copy to the screen and put it in it, it shows up in people's feeds, right? And you highlight whatever you're talking about again and see what is resonating and what people are following.
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
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Dive into the world of B2B marketing, where strategy meets social science. Join our guest, Julie Williamson, as she unveils the secrets behind effective leadership, channel partnerships, and the art of aligning teams. Get ready for insights that could transform your organization!

Here are a few topics we’ll discuss on this episode of Hard to Market Podcast.

Powerful marketing meets social science.Referrals bridge client expectation gaps.Targeting new leaders for growth opportunities.Nurturing the channel partner ecosystem.Aligning leaders for organizational change.
Resources:
Karrikins GroupPodcast Chef
Connect with Julie Williamson, PhD:
LinkedIn
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmail
Quotables:
21:28 - How do we get the leadership team to fully engage on the strategic goals, the transformation effort, the change that's afoot in the organization so that they can accelerate and really drive that transformation as effectively as possible. That's our sweet spot. We do a lot of other work too, but that's where we really shine is if you feel like something is kind of gummed up or decisions aren't getting made quickly enough or you're not heading in the right direction, we can help organizations to align and deliver together.06:33 -  So just from a purely tactical perspective, if people are thinking about how do I get someone to be a referral for me, don't ask for too much of their time. You don't need it because that social proof happens very quickly. It happens within the first five or ten minutes that the person who is getting the referral is deciding whether or not they trust in this person and they trust that the information being shared is valid. So you don't need an hour. So we look for that little slot of time that we can get with them to get the two of them together. And then we generally host the conversation, at least for the first few minutes to make introductions to say, you know, here's the work that we did, here's the work we're thinking about doing, and connect the dots at that point. Sometimes it can be really helpful to drop off and let the two of them have a conversation just between them.09:34 - Because once people have the opportunity to work with us and, to hear what we have to say and also to see what it's like to be in a meeting with us or be in an experience with us, then things actually move pretty quickly from a sales perspective. So the marketing process of getting someone through a referral conversation generally opens the door for us to get more into that experiential marketing.12:03 - I find prompts them to come back and want more, right? So again, it's that idea of giving them something that's really useful and tangible that they can put into play right away. And then they say, okay, I get it. I see the value of this. How can you help me build a strategy that will let me stand kind of apart and set apart this group? Or how can you help me with the growth strategies that we have in place that we need to accelerate?13:56 - And that's where our channel partners really come into place into play. So we have the referral program that we do with clients where we ask them to give us introductions or to speak on our behalf. But the channel partner approach for us is proving to be really useful for getting us those inbound leads because they can listen for and start to pull in customers who feel like they're in the right space. So that's been really interesting for us to explore.
Connect with our host, Brian Mattocks:
LinkedInEmailSchedule a Free Podcast Consult