In Demand: How to Grow Your SaaS and Stay In Demand

Asia Orangio & Kim Talarczyk
  • 5.0 (4)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

Growing a SaaS? Yeah, that's hard. Growing a SaaS without a clue what you're doing from a marketing and growth perspective? Pretty much impossible — especially if you want to break the $1M and $10M ARR marks. Kim Talarczyk sits down with Asia Orangio to extract and unpack all the strategic insights she holds in her brain from working with hundreds of SaaS companies and interviewing thousands of their customers. Together, they break down how to diagnose and troubleshoot growth challenges across every part of a B2B SaaS business. About your hosts: Asia Orangio is the CEO & Founder of DemandMaven. Asia helps founders of PLG SaaS companies troubleshoot their growth across GTM, acquisition, activation, retention, and expansion and get unstuck. In early 2018, Asia founded DemandMaven — a consulting firm dedicated to helping bootstrapped and funded SaaS companies build revenue-generating growth engines. Previously, Asia served in a number of marketing roles, but most notably as head of marketing at Hull where she helped the team 10.5x in growth, and #FlipMyFunnel / Terminus as demand generation manager. Asia also served on the board of Moz before its successful acquisition in 2021. Kim Talarczyk is the Client Services and Operations Manager at DemandMaven, where she ensures all client engagements are executed to the highest standard. With a strong background in client-facing roles and professional service firms, Kim has played a key role in scaling operations and delivering exceptional experiences for both B2C and B2B brands.

  1. 4D AGO

    EP49: Can you be too early to a marketing channel?

    When it comes to growth channels, things are as straightforward as they seem. Attribution is as complex as ever, and if you move too fast, you risk wasting money on strategies that “don’t work”, not because they can’t, but because you’re too early. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim dig into how to understand which channels work (or don't). They unpack false positives and false negatives, the pitfalls of premature ad testing, and why channels should be evaluated as part of a larger system, not in isolation. If you’ve ever wondered whether a channel failed because of timing or execution, this episode will help you separate signal from noise. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Chapters (00:01:00) - How false positives and false negatives can mislead your marketing strategy.(00:03:30) - Why it's possible to be too early into a marketing channel and how channels stack.(00:07:30) - How to do attribution by channel correctly.(00:10:15) - Customer interviews give a more complex picture of attribution.(00:13:00) - How to uncover your customer journey using interviews and jobs-to-be-done.(00:16:30) - When ads look like they’re working, but conversions tell another story.(00:26:00) - The product’s role in growth: if your PLG SaaS product can’t close, your ads can’t save you.(00:32:50) - How to tell if your company is too early for a channel or program.(00:35:30) - When it can be too early to go to a sales-led strategy.

    40 min

  2. OCT 21

    EP48: When non-SaaS companies create SaaS products

    When you’ve built a successful service or consulting company, the idea that building your own SaaS product can sound very attractive: scalable revenue, recurring customers, and product-led growth. But the reality is often far more complex. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim explore why non-SaaS companies struggle when attempting to spin off software products. They cover what makes SaaS such a different business model, the hidden costs and pitfalls of under-committing, and what it really takes to make a spin-off succeed. If you’ve ever wondered whether your company should build its own SaaS product, or you’re already in the middle of one, this episode will help you avoid the most common mistakes and wasted investment. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Chapters (00:01:00) - Why non-SaaS companies get drawn to the “siren song” of SaaS(00:03:00) - How building internal tools triggers the idea of selling a software product.(00:09:45) - Why SaaS is hard and why spinning off a SaaS product often doesn't work out.(00:14:30) - Why parent-company reputation doesn't transfer to a SaaS spin-off as often as you'd think.(00:18:30) - What are the most common pitfalls to avoid if you're thinking about creating a SaaS spin-off product?(00:23:15) - Most SaaS spin-offs require $200K–$800K of investment before they start making money.(00:28:30) - Understanding go-to-market for a SaaS product and the mistakes that parent companies often make.(00:41:30) - The problems that come up with the parent company isn't fully committed to the new product.(00:44:20) - What made Moz and SearchPilot successful when others failed.(00:47:45) - Final advice: hire experienced contributors and treat the spin-off like a true startup.

    53 min

  3. OCT 14

    EP47: When to (not) hire an agency

    When you’re in the early go-to-market stage, every dollar counts, but founders can feel pressure to move fast and start considering hiring a big agency before they're ready. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim unpack the trade-offs of hiring an agency too early. They explore what signals actually show you’re ready, how to avoid wasting precious cash, and alternative paths like freelancers or contractors. If you’ve ever wondered whether now is the right time to pull the trigger on agency help, this episode is for you.  Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Chapters (00:00:57) - The risks of hiring an agency too early and why you might just be setting cash on fire.(00:04:35) - Key indicators of being ready to bring in an agency: customer volume, software category maturity, and retention.(00:07:25) - Why the best agencies are cautious about early-stage clients.(00:09:30) - Retention as a core indicator: if you’re losing half your customers after 3 months, pause.(00:14:30) - Why most companies don’t truly know product-market fit until at least 12 months.(00:17:05) - Why early-stage founders tend to think they need help from an agency or consulting firm.(00:18:20) - Lessons from Superhuman: taking time to refine before a big splash.(00:20:40) - Why remaining flexible in execution matters and where bringing on contractors or freelancers makes sense.(00:27:30) - The more cost-effective ways to test aquisition strategies.(00:31:10) - DemandMaven’s role in helping founders de-risk early go-to-market strategy.(00:34:54) - Final checklist: what to validate before spending on agency help.

    38 min

  4. JUL 22

    EP46: The churn playbook

    Most SaaS founders pay attention to churn, but beneath the surface of a good or bad churn number, many important details are missed.   In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down the real story behind churn. What the numbers do and don't tell you and how to dig deeper to uncover the patterns driving customer retention (or loss).  From understanding net revenue retention to running effective churn interviews, this is the ultimate primer on diagnosing and solving churn for your SaaS. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven ProfitWell ChurnKey ChartMogul Chapters (00:01:30) - Why a 5% churn rate may not be as healthy as you think.(00:03:55) - How do you measure churn? And getting detailed with qualified vs. unqualified churn and why you need to measure both.(00:06:05) - How to set up onboarding to keep track of qualified vs. unqualified churn.(00:07:30) - Understanding cohort-based churn and net revenue retention (NRR).(00:09:19) - How to interpret NRR and what benchmarks really mean.(00:13:35) - Why getting into segmented NRR is valuable.(00:16:30) - Churn is nuanced. If you are looking at a monthly churn number, you could be missing the bigger picture.(00:17:00) - If you collect cancellation reasons, you may miss the real reasons your customers are churning.(00:21:15) - How to conduct effective churn interviews (with participants who will actually attend) and the churn matrix: qualified/unqualified vs. activated/inactivated.(00:26:45) - What churn interviews can reveal: product confusion, missing features, poor product marketing.(00:27:30) - Product management issues that can come up in churn interviews.(00:31:15) - How to pre-select who to interview to give yourself the best chance of finding meaningful insights.(00:35:00) - Why churned customers are more talkative than trial users.(00:37:05) - What good churn research uncovers: acquisition, pricing, activation, product gaps.

    41 min

  5. JUL 15

    EP45: The onboarding and activation playbook

    In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim take a deep dive into one of the most overlooked revenue levers in SaaS: activation.  They walk through their activation playbook, breaking down how to define activation for your product and sharing tactical strategies for improving onboarding experiences.  Whether you're PLG or sales-assisted, this episode offers clear steps to uncover where users get stuck and how to fix it. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven UserInterviews.com  Respondent.io  Product-Led Onboarding by Ramli John Samuel Hulick  UserOnboard  Reforge Chapters (00:00:55) - Why most founders overlook activation, and why that’s a huge mistake.(00:02:25) - What activation actually means and how to define it for your SaaS.(00:03:30) - Trial-to-paid is not the only way to think about activation, and may be missing a big part of the story.(00:06:15) - How to discover activation metrics using a new user retention report.(00:12:30) - Why session recordings fall short and what to use instead.(00:14:35) - The power of UX interviews and how to run them properly.(00:23:00) - What to watch for in interviews: pauses, furrowed brows, and “it was easy” lies.(00:25:55) - Looking for friction and where people get stuck.(00:27:30) - How to map your onboarding flow and prioritize product fixes once you've done UX interviews.(00:30:30) - Why valuable activation work can fail in organizations where there isn't a clear decision maker (avoiding the problems of compromise land)(00:33:45) - How does activation change in product led vs. sales led organizations?(00:38:15) - Onboarding for high complexity products.(00:43:45) - Book and other recommendations for mastering activation.(00:51:30) - A final reminder about survivor bias. Remember that just because your customers made it, does not mean that your onboarding activation is perfect.

    54 min

  6. JUL 8

    EP44: A realistic look at the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS)

    One of the biggest pain points for first-time founders is a lack of structure within their business. One of the most popular frameworks for quickly creating structure is the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS), but does it really live up to the hype? In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim do a deep dive into EOS. They break down its key components, where it works (and where it doesn’t), and why most founders should treat it more like a toolbox than a strict rulebook. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven EOS Worldwide  Traction by Gino Wickman  - the book introducing EOS Chapters (00:00:25) - Rediscovering campaign anxiety.(00:06:00) - EOS overview: what it is and why a client recently reached out asking about it.(00:11:00) - “Right person, right seat” explained.(00:15:45) - Issues tracking.(00:20:00) - Where EOS can fall apart for small teams.(00:29:30) - The parts of EOS that Asia likes and uses.(00:32:00) - Rocks vs. OKRs: what’s the difference and when does it matter?(00:39:15) - SOPs vs. “The Way”: document your processes, whatever you call them.(00:42:15) - When are core values useful and when are they just performative?(00:52:00) - Picking and choosing from EOS: take what works, leave the rest.

    58 min

  7. JUL 1

    EP43: Making customer research a core part of your growth process

    Most SaaS companies know customer research matters, but too often, it becomes a one-off project or gets pushed down the list.  In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down how to make customer research a core part of your growth process. They share how their own approach to research sprints has evolved, what mistakes they made early on, and what they do now to consistently uncover insights that drive real decisions. You’ll also learn how to structure a fast, effective sprint, when to run different types of interviews (from churn to win-loss), and how to turn interviews into strategy and not just documentation. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Bob Moesta User Interviews Respondent.io  Wynter Chapters (00:01:00) - What Asia and Kim have changed about their original research interviews.(00:04:09) - How offering small incentives improved response rates and interview quality.(00:06:30) - Why letting clients watch live calls builds buy-in and alignment.(00:11:30) - Debriefing after every interview to map the four forces and pull insights from interviews.(00:15:15) - Going beyond the Jobs To Be Done research interview format to do UX interviews, churn interviews, and more.(00:18:55) - When does it make sense to use tools like userinterviews.com for interview candidates instead of going directly to your customers?(00:24:45) - Why gathering qualitative information is so important, especially for bootstrapped founders.(00:25:30) - What you can learn from churn interviews that you're missing with only a cancellation survey.(00:29:30) - Why win–loss and competitive intelligence interviews are underused growth tools.(00:34:10) - Budget-friendly recruiting tools to help you get started.

    36 min

  8. JUN 24

    EP42: My first 90 days as a fractional CMO

    Asia just hit her 90th day as fractional CMO with a new company, and in this episode of the In Demand Podcast, she shares everything she's taking away from those first three months. This episode is a behind-the-scenes look at how a marketing leader gets up to speed, creates clarity, and shapes outcomes. Asia and Kim cover everything from digging through legacy docs to building team structure and launching new systems.  Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven OfferingTree Chapters (00:01:40) - What Asia focused on first: people, processes, tools, data.(00:07:30) - Identifying mission-critical gaps.(00:10:00) - Once you identify the gaps, you can start to find new opportunities.(00:12:55) - The first two artifacts that Asia created: CMO's Mandate, and a marketing strategy for the rest of the year.(00:17:15) - Month two: hiring new talent, refining workstreams, aligning on OKRs.(00:19:55) - Forecasting vs. budgeting vs. planning.(00:26:45) - Translating CAC and trial goals into action.(00:32:05) - Month three: getting executors executing .(00:35:00) - Relationship-building with product and sales.(00:36:30) - What comes next: aligning the ships, creating momentum, and scaling what works.

    40 min
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About

Growing a SaaS? Yeah, that's hard. Growing a SaaS without a clue what you're doing from a marketing and growth perspective? Pretty much impossible — especially if you want to break the $1M and $10M ARR marks. Kim Talarczyk sits down with Asia Orangio to extract and unpack all the strategic insights she holds in her brain from working with hundreds of SaaS companies and interviewing thousands of their customers. Together, they break down how to diagnose and troubleshoot growth challenges across every part of a B2B SaaS business. About your hosts: Asia Orangio is the CEO & Founder of DemandMaven. Asia helps founders of PLG SaaS companies troubleshoot their growth across GTM, acquisition, activation, retention, and expansion and get unstuck. In early 2018, Asia founded DemandMaven — a consulting firm dedicated to helping bootstrapped and funded SaaS companies build revenue-generating growth engines. Previously, Asia served in a number of marketing roles, but most notably as head of marketing at Hull where she helped the team 10.5x in growth, and #FlipMyFunnel / Terminus as demand generation manager. Asia also served on the board of Moz before its successful acquisition in 2021. Kim Talarczyk is the Client Services and Operations Manager at DemandMaven, where she ensures all client engagements are executed to the highest standard. With a strong background in client-facing roles and professional service firms, Kim has played a key role in scaling operations and delivering exceptional experiences for both B2C and B2B brands.

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