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Apex Express is a proud collective member of AACRE, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. AACRE focuses on long-term movement building, capacity infrastructure, and leadership support for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice.

  1. 2D AGO

    APEX Express – 10.30.25-We Belong!

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Tonight on APEX Express Host Miko Lee speaks with spouses of detained refugees. We hear about the similarities and challenges of Hmong and Nepali speaking Bhutanese refugees. We also speak with Asian Law Caucus’ Aisa Villarosa about the ongoing campaigns for freedom that ALC has been leading along with a host of other community based organizations. Join us: November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki’s GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.     We Belong! Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express.This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we’re talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities.We originally recorded this episode a month ago, and today is October 29th. 2025 and I have with me Aisa Villarosa a lawyer with Asian Law Caucus, giving us an update in the cases that we’re talking about. Welcome Aisa Apex Express. Aisa Villarosa: Thanks so much, Miko. Miko Lee: Tonight we’re gonna be talking with two spouses of detained folks. One is a Nepali speaking Bhutanese community member, and the other is Hmong community member. In the time since we recorded this, there has been a big update with Lue Young’s case, and I wonder if you could provide us with that update. Aisa Villarosa: Miko since we last spoke, due to some really hard fought campaigning, both behind the scenes and drawing upon allies across Michigan and really across the country. Lue Yang, received a successful pardon from Governor Gretchen Whitmer. We actually received word shortly before Lue Yang was set to be placed on a very large deportation flight. Once we got word of the pardon, it was off to the races for the legal team to quickly draft some emergency motions for Lue Yang and to realize the power of the pardon before the deportation. Miko Lee: Can we back up for a moment and give for an audience a sense of what that means? Lue Young was incarcerated at a detention facility, which Trump has called the FedEx of detention facilities in, Louisana, and explain to us what happened to him and the other members that were suddenly pulled together onto an airplane. Aisa Villarosa: When these removal flights happen, there’s so much confusion, there’s so much fear that families undergo, and often it’s due to the perseverance of the families that we honestly even know where folks are. Shortly before what we call final staging happens, someone is moved from, in Lue’s case, a facility in Michigan to a facility like Alexandria in Louisiana where the planes do take off  from. Families typically look up their loved one on something called the “ice detainee locator.” What’s challenging is when final staging starts. Often that person completely disappears from the detainee locator or information gets a bit scrambled. Because ICE has a bit of a sealed box as far as even telling families where, their loved one is. Families are either left to guess or rely on each other. So for Lue Yang and the pardon what is critical for folks to know is that as powerful, as rare as a pardon is, I can’t stress how extraordinary this is in these very difficult times. A pardon does not instantly, allow someone to say, walk out of an ice facility. There’s, numerous legal filings that need to happen. That is why , the team was so up against the clock. Miko Lee: So let’s break this down a little bit around a pardon. What does a pardon mean in our current system? Because as a lay person, you think, oh, they’re pardoned. That means they’re free and they can go home and be with their family. Tell us a little bit about what a pardon means in our legal system right now. Aisa Villarosa: A pardon is different from a criminal expungement, which folks might be familiar with. In Lue’s case, for example, when Lue was younger, he successfully expunged this record, in criminal court. The challenge is that immigration court, is basically the entity that issues something called a “final order of removal.” This document, is basically what powers deportation for folks. An expungement does not get at the final removal order. However, a pardon has that more direct link. The pardon has the weight of what we call “vacating a conviction.” To explain more legalese and hopefully folks can stay with me. A final order of removal is an immigration court order document where , it gives ice the power to do all these deportations We’re seeing for the refugee community that Lue Yang belongs to. Often these are quite old orders, and so sometimes a loved one might be detained and they might not even realize that they have a criminal conviction or a final order of removal. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking that down. So we described how he was pulled off the plane that was going for his deportation. Tell us where Lue is at right now. What is happening with his case? Aisa Villarosa: The call to action very much remains what it has been, which is we’re calling to bring Lue home. At the moment, Lue is in a facility in Louisiana. Our hope is that Lue can return to Michigan. There is also a call to release Lue on a supervised release. The other component of the legal journey for Lue is something called a motion to reopen. Basically this is how the full weight of the pardon is realized. The motion to reopen calls on the Board of Immigration Appeals to reopen Lue’s case, because years ago he got that final removal order, so when someone gets that order, typically their immigration case is closed. This petition says, Hey, he got a pardon. Please reopen Lue’s case because the underlying conviction that led to the final removal order. Has been pardoned, right? We are hoping that this motion to reopen will be heard in front of the Board of Immigration Appeals, that we can get a great result and that as the campaign calls for that, Lue can come home. Miko Lee: I know lawyers like you are doing incredible work around the scenes. You did not sleep for two days, filing paperwork to be able to make sure that Lue was pulled off that plane. But what can regular people, what can our audience do to get involved right now? Aisa Villarosa: There’s myriad actions along this really terrible deportation pipeline. We’re seeing that folks who might not have, any deep knowledge of the immigration system can still be so impactful. We have partners in LA in the faith community and they’ve started working with community organizations to do things like accompaniment, which is, joining community members like Lue, who often have these ice check-ins. As folks have seen on the news, these check-ins can be really risky because that is where ice arrests can happen. If someone misses their ice check-in, typically that means that a warrant is issued, that immigration forces can come after you. In these cases, community members, particularly folks who are US citizens, accompaniment can be a great way to dig in to show up for our immigrant and refugee siblings. Miko Lee: Thank you so much for breaking down how folks can get involved. It’s so important right now in a time where we feel so utterly helpless to be able to make change. Now we’re gonna go back to listen to our interview that is with the two spouses, Tika, Basnet, and Ann Vue, and also our current guest, Aisa Villarosa Tika and Ann they’re part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, for having me on. We are Hmong. We helped Americans during the Vietnam War. In Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. Because we’re indigenous and we are in the mountains they were able to speak with us and use us. Our Hmong, helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, so that they can make it back home. That is our contribution to the American people. When we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Our legacy of helping Americans with the war. that is who we are and what we bring to America. That’s who I am. I’m actually the first generation Hmong American. I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. They came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship. We were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. My husband also born in Nepal in a refugee ca

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  2. APEX Express – 10.23.25 -And We Become Stateless Again

    OCT 23

    APEX Express – 10.23.25 -And We Become Stateless Again

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. On tonight’s episode, we’re focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US’ deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people.   Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam. Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight’s episode, we’re focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US’ deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here’s Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I’m so glad to bring you all together in this time. I’m wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let’s start with Kao Ye. Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I’m from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I’m wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I’d love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don’t know about Bhutan, it’s a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn’t allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that’s indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we’ve always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I’m actually I’m a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn’t actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it’s definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let’s talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I’m wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to artic

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  3. OCT 16

    APEX Express – 10.16.25 – We Belong Here

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. TAKE ACTION Rising Voices campaign for Lue Yang Mohan Karki’s GoFundMe   And please help support these organizations working to support detained and deported folx: Asian Law Caucus Asian Refugees United Ba Lo Project in Vietnam Collective Freedom in Vietnam & Laos Asian Prisoner Support Committee & New Light Wellness in Cambodia November 1–2, people nationwide are joining the Disappeared In America Weekend of Action to stand up for immigrant families and defend due process. Actions include protests at Home Depots, candlelight Freedom Vigils, and Day of the Dead events honoring lives lost to detention.   The following day, November 3, 4pm Pacific time, 7pm Eastern Time, Join us for “We Belong Here, Bhutanese & Hmong Americans in the Struggle Against Statelessness” a live virtual event featuring my three guests tonight, along with performances and conversations. bit.ly/WBH-2025   We Belong Here! Show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to Apex Express. This is your host, Miko Lee. Today we’re talking about detentions and potential deportations and the atrocities that the Trump administration is creating in our communities. And today I am so honored to have three guests with me, Tika Basnet, and Ann Vu, and Aisa Villarosa. Tika and Ann they’re part of a horrible club, which is both of their spouses are currently in detention from our immigration system. But I just wanna start on a real personal note in a way that I often do with my guests. Anne, I’m gonna start with you. I just would love to hear from you, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Ann Vue: Thank you again, Miko and Isa, you guys for having me on. So we are Hmong. And we helped Americans during the Vietnam War. And so, during the Vietnam War in Laos, a lot of our pilots needed a communication. And because we’re indigenous and we are in the mountains, they were able to speak with us and use us. And so a lot of our Hmong, what they did or what they contributed helped a lot of the pilots rescued a lot, like thousands and thousands of Americans, really, so that that way they can make it back home, right? And so that is our contribution to the American people. And so when we were brought to America, was to resettle because of humanitarian purpose. Really because of our legacy of helping Americans with the war, right? So that is who we are and what we bring to America. And that’s who I am. I’m, and I’m actually the first generation Hmong American too. So I was born right here in the capital of Lansing, Michigan. Miko Lee: Thanks so much ann. And Tika, can you share who are your people and what legacy you carry with you? Tika Basnet: Yes. Hi, my name is Tika Basnet. So I am Bhutanese Nepali community. My parents and all the Bhutanese, they ran away from Bhutan in 1990 due to the ethnic cleansing. And they came to Nepal, seeking for asylum, and that is where we born. I was born in Nepal, in refugee camp. Even though I was born in Nepal, Nepal never gave us identity. They never give us citizenship, so we were known as Bhutanese Nepali, but as known as Stateless. And yeah, my husband also born in Nepal in a refugee camp. Miko Lee: Thank you, Tika. And Aisa, I’m gonna ask the same question for you Aisa, my friend that works at Asian Law Caucus. Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Aisa Villarosa: So much love to you, Miko and to you Ann and Tika for being here today. I just am, I’m so honored.My name is Aisa and I carry the love and, Maki Baka spirit of Filipino Americans both in my family across the diaspora. A little bit about the Filipino American story. We came to the United States as part of the colonial machine. The first Filipinos were brought as part of the Spanish Gallian trade. We made California home, parts of Louisiana home, and it’s quite a contrast to a lot of the sort of model minority seduction that many of my people, and myself as a younger person tended to fall into that if we kept our heads down, if we were quiet, we would be left alone. I’m struck because at this moment of just unprecedented government attacks, so many of our communities have this story where someone somewhere said to us, yeah, just keep your head down and it’ll be fine. And we’re seeing the exact opposite, that this is the time to really use our voices, both individually and as one. And I’m also an artist and try to infuse that into my work in fighting government systems. Miko Lee: Thank you Aisa. And in the interest of fairness, I will say I’m Miko. I am fifth generation Chinese American. I grew up knowing that my family was full of fighters that built the railroads, worked in the gold mines in laundromats and restaurants, and my parents walked with Dr. King and Cesar Chavez and Dolores Huerta, and I was raised in a family of social justice activists. So I feel like our legacy is to continue that work and to fight for the rights of our peoples. That being said, I’m so honored to have both of all three of you powerful women join me today. And as I was saying in the beginning, Tika and Anne are sadly a part of this club. Nobody wants to be a part of this club with the sudden, unexpected, harmful detentions of both of your husbands. I wonder if you can each just share the story about what happened and how you first found out about your husband being detained. And let’s start with you Tika. Tika Basnet: So, my husband got his removal in 2014 when he was like minor. Just 17 years old, high school student going from school to home and, he’s a teenager and with his friend, like they were playing around and they wanna go home really fast. So they just cross from private property. And I think that is where someone saw and call 911. So we came from the culture that we love to go people home , walking around, playing around. So my husband came here in 2011. The incident happened on 2013. So he was just, came here without knowing culture, without knowing languages, So he has no idea. So when somebody called 911, he could not explain what happened. First of all, English is his second language, he was barely here without knowing rules and regulation, without knowing culture. The police get them and then they took him to jail I think police gave a lot of charges. And even until now, my husband doesn’t know what are those charges? At that time, nobody explained, this is the three charges you got, and this could lead to deportation. And he feel guilty without knowing those charges. And just because he trusts Nepali translate guy, and he told my husband, like, if you don’t say I’m guilty, you will end up in prison for 20 to 25 years, but if you say I’m guilty, you’ll go home. And my husband said, guilty. And at that time, neither criminal lawyer told my husband, like, if you say I’m guilty, you’ll end up getting deport. Deport to the contrary that you are you never born. Deport To the contrary, you doesn’t even speak their language. And even the lawyer did not explain my husband like, you will not gonna get your green card. You cannot apply your citizenship in your life. If all of, if those things like the lawyer told my husband at that time, he will never gonna say, I am guilty to the crime that he did not even commit. And so when they tried to deport my husband back then, Bhutan say, he’s not my citizenship, he’s not from my country, We don’t know this guy. He’s not belongs to here. And when US Embassy reach out to, Nepal, do you know this guy? They told, ICE no, we don’t know this guy, like he’s not belongs here. And then the ICE officer, they told my husband, like, we can let you go, you need to come here, like order of supervision every years, every three months, every six months, whenever we call you. And it been 11 years. My husband is following rules and regulation. After that incident, never police arrest him. He did not even get criminal record. He did not even get misdemeanor record. So basically he never did any violation after that. So he was following, he got married, he has a life, he pay taxes. He was taking care of his family and in 11 years he was doing everything. And in 2025 for the first time they target Bhutanese Nepali community. And at that time I knew that this is the last time I’m gonna see my husband. And that is a time I think I broke down. Like, when they detained my husband in April 8, I was eight months pregnant. And um, like we dream a lot of things like, you know, we are gonna take care of our daughter. We are gonna buy home, we are gonna work, we are gonna give her the life that we, I’m sorry. Miko Lee: Totally. Okay. Tika Basnet: So, yeah. Um, like I never thought like Bhutanese community can, like deport. Like my parent already , go through this trauma, you know, when Bhutan throw them away due to ethnic cleansing and same thing happening to us. It is unbelievable. I cannot believe that, we’re going through this again and I don’t know when this gonna be stopped. I don’t know whether like my husband gonna come home. I dunno. Like I’m fighting and it is been five month and I really want my husband back. Like my daughter today is, she’s three month old. She need her dad in life. ’cause I cannot provide everything by myself. My husband is the main provider for her aging parent. ’cause even now they cannot pay bills. Like they have really hard time paying bills. And this is the reason, like I’m fighting for my husband case and I want my husband back. And I think he deserve second chance because if you see his record is clean, like for one incident that happened like 12 years ago, that cannot define my husband. Like who he is right now, you know? So yeah, this is what happened. Like I cannot believe that my husband is ab

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  4. APEX Express – September 25, 2025

    SEP 25

    APEX Express – September 25, 2025

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 25, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

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  5. SEP 18

    APEX Express – 9.18.25 – I Feel That Way Too

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Host Miko Lee speaks with author, activist Michelle MiJung Kim about her new Podcast, I Feel That Way Too. Then we listen to the first episode. Michelle MiJung Kim Website I Feel That Way Too podcast     I FEEL THAT WAY TOO show Transcript Miko Lee: Welcome to APEX Express. I’m your host, Miko Lee, and tonight I’ll be talking with author, speaker, and activist, Michelle MiJung Kim, about the new podcast. So we get to listen after the interview to the very first episode, and you get a little behind the scenes with activist Michelle MiJung. Kim, stay tuned. welcome, Michelle MiJung Kim to Apex Express. I’m so excited to chat with you. You are an award-winning author, activist, and now a podcast host. Hello girl. Welcome. Yay. Michelle MiJung Kim: Hello. Thank you so much for having me, Miko. I’m so excited. Miko Lee: I wanna start with my big question, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Michelle MiJung Kim: Hmm. What a deep question that I can go on forever about. My people are, first and foremost people who are in my life, who have supported me throughout. Everything that I’ve gone through in my life, including my friends and family who have different lineages, people, most of the people that I hold near and dear carry with them, a deep understanding of their historical trauma, their familial trauma, and people who are courageous enough to share them [00:02:00] with me. So that really creates this bond that I have with my people. A lot of my people are in the queer and trans community and in the physical space of the Ohlone land, also known as Oakland, California. A lot of my community rooted in my Asian American identity. Miko Lee: Love this. My follow up, what is the legacy you carry with you from your people? Michelle MiJung Kim: The legacy that I carry from my people that jumps out to me right now is the legacy of my grandparents. My grandparents were both born in Korea. My grandpa from the north, my grandma from the south, and I am always thinking about how my grandpa was fighting for the Korea’s liberation from Japanese occupation, and he was a writer himself. I always saw him writing and he had [00:03:00] stacks of paper ready to be published, but he ended up not being able to publish before he passed. So my book dedication starts with my gratitude to my grandparents and my grandpa specifically. The legacy of his work, his spirit, his love for philosophy, social justice language I carry with me. My grandmother, who was part of the first class of women in her generation to go to a university she was a badass matriarch of our family and her energy, her audacity, her courage, her confidence in her herself and her community is what I try to channel. I think about them every day. Miko Lee: Ugh. I love that. I’m wondering if you could share a little bit about your book. Michelle MiJung Kim: My book is called The Wake Up Closing The Gap Between Good Intentions and Real Change and really it’s part memoir, part [00:04:00] principles of Social justice that I hold near to my heart. I really wanted to write a book that could be timeless and that could put into accessible ways how we can embody these values that are important for our collective liberation. So much of the social justice work that I encountered throughout my education journey had been highly intellectualized and theoretical and sometimes not unpacked in ways that feel human. I wanna see how people are struggling to hold social justice values while living their daily lives. How sometimes it gets challenging to embody the values that we say are important to us because it asks us to trade off our comfort and safety sometimes. I wanted to be really honest about my experience trying to live in alignment with my values, including the parts of my own contradictions and struggles and paradoxes that I’ve had to navigate. Miko Lee: Such a powerful [00:05:00] book for the time of now in that it does have the personal story, but then also recognizing what’s happening in our world. It’s really action forward. Tell me how you got from this book to creating a podcast series called. I feel that way too. Tell me what inspired this whole series? Michelle MiJung Kim: I think it is an extension of the work that I’ve been doing, which really marries personal storytelling and social justice values. I Feel that way too, exploring these tricky life questions like, can we be friends if we politically disagree? What if I’m not above revenge, even though I am a self-proclaimed abolitionist? Why do I have this urge to, be vengeful and why do I feel gleeful when people that have done harm get punished, right? Am I supposed to sleep with one person for the rest of my life? Am I a bad daughter? These are all the questions that I’ve struggled [00:06:00] with. I wanted to have an opportunity to unpack them with raw honesty and with guests that could really help guide me in thinking about these things while trying to stay tethered to my values around social justice. I’ve always been a fan of audio storytelling. So this was the perfect opportunity to explore that, especially in an era where the world is constantly insisting we solve these issues in isolation and we deal with our traumas in shame and without each other’s witnessing. This is my way of hopefully making people feel a little bit less alone in their struggles and also in a way that, helps us to build more courage and community through stories. Miko Lee: I binge the entire season. Super fun, super personal., I was wondering how did you decide on these topics? Did they come naturally [00:07:00] or did you create an arc? Tell me about your process. Michelle MiJung Kim: I had probably two, three pages long list of topics that I wanted to explore and we had to pick and narrow it down. I wanted to tackle questions that felt existential in the collective psyche. I look at and feel into the zeitgeist of what is happening in the world . These are the questions that I wanted to explore because of my own life, but also some of these questions bring up a lot of shame and tension. when I looked at other podcasts that were exploring similar topics, I just felt as though a lot of these issues were being talked about in a very intellectualized way, in a very theoretical way without the raw sort of personal storytelling aspect that I was craving. So this was my attempt at being, courageous and practicing what I preach and being able to share some of the more vulnerable [00:08:00] tensions that aren’t typically explored in the public arena. Miko Lee: Oh wow. So two whole more pages for future seasons of shows to do. I was, struck by how vulnerable the episodes are, how they’re so personal. The first one being around, supporting your single mom and around financial and really emotional stability that really struck me as being so very personal and deep. I just wonder, has your mom and dad listened to the series or particularly that episode and what has been any response? Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. Um, my dad, no, but my mom, yes. I wanted my mom to listen to it before it aired. ’cause I thought that was the only fair thing to do. I gave her the option also to not have this air if she didn’t want it to go live. And I was. So [00:09:00] scared about how she was gonna receive it. And for the listeners, the story really goes deep into my struggle around prioritizing her needs over my desires, and constantly living in this. Feeling of guilt for not doing more to support my mom. And also our definition of love and sacrifice being entangled in ways that feel sometimes impossible to navigate. I had attempted to have this conversation years ago with my mom that like completely backfire that I talk about on the podcast and, since then, I just never broached the subject because I was so nervous about how she was gonna take it. , And my biggest fear was her feeling less loved and feeling, hurt by my honesty. And so when it came time for me to present this podcast to her, I was incredibly nervous. What ended up happening was we ended up listening to the episode together. She was sitting [00:10:00] right there on the couch behind me and the, I played the episode and I just couldn’t look at her face. So instead of looking directly at her, I had my camera on , so I could look at her through my phone. And I had my back toward her, and within the first five minutes she started crying. So I would pause the episode, talk to her about what was coming up for her. We would cry, we would fight, we would argue, we would apologize and we would cry again. So the entire episode that’s 30 minutes long, took us three hours to get through. Miko Lee: Wow. Michelle MiJung Kim: It was incredibly difficult emotionally. And it was probably one of the most pivotal interactions I’ve ever had with my mom. I’ve been able to be more honest than ever with her. [00:11:00] She got to also be honest in her reaction and response, and we were able to be really brave with our vulnerability, which we had never done because most of our lives, our love and , especially our pain was communicated through silence. Just pretending that we’re not hurting because we don’t wanna hurt the other person. Very Asian. It was hard, very Asian, but it was also really healing. Miko Lee: Wow. I would love, love, love a follow up episode with you interviewing your mom. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I don’t if request that. Miko Lee: I dunno if she’d be downed for that, but that would, I’m curious if you could share a little bit more about your needing to have your back toward her in the beginning and if that shifted over those three hours. Michelle MiJung Kim: Yeah. I think it was my fear of my truth being seen by her ,

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  6. APEX Express – September 11, 2025

    SEP 11

    APEX Express – September 11, 2025

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. The post APEX Express – September 11, 2025 appeared first on KPFA.

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  7. SEP 4

    APEX Express – 9.4.25 – Obbligato with Mari Yoshihara

    Asians and Asian Americans are numerous within the classical music industry, but their identities are often politicized and racialized in this Eurocentric musical genre. For the third episode of Obbligato on APEX Express, Isabel Li discusses this intersection with Mari Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music (2007) and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro (2019). Tonight’s episode features music by Chinese American composer Zhou Tian. To learn more about Mari and her work, please visit her website: https://www.mariyoshihara.com/index.html  Musicians from a Different Shore: https://tupress.temple.edu/books/musicians-from-a-different-shore-2 Dearest Lenny: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/dearest-lenny-9780190465780?cc=jp&lang=en&  Transcript  Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.    00:00:53 Isabel Li  Good evening. You’re listening to KPFA 94.1 FM. My name is Isabel Li and I’m delighted to be hosting a new edition of Obbligato on Apex Express, which is a semimonthly segment specifically about AAPI identities in classical music. Tonight’s guest is someone I have been incredibly excited to speak to because her writings have actually very much informed my studies and research. In fact, her books are exactly about the subject matter of Obbligato. I am honored to be speaking to Mario Yoshihara, Professor of American Studies at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa and Professor at the Center for Global Education at the University of Tokyo, Japan; author of many books, including Musicians from a Different Shore: Asians and Asian Americans in Classical Music, published in 2007, and Dearest Lenny: Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro, which was published in 2019. Welcome to Obbligato on Apex Express. Mari, how are you doing?  00:01:55 Mari Yoshihara  I’m doing fine. Thank you for having me.  00:01:58 Isabel Li  Of course, my first question for you is how do you identify and what communities are you a part of?  00:02:06 Mari Yoshihara  Oh well, that’s actually a little bit complicated I am. I am a Japanese woman who have spent a little bit over well, maybe not more than a little more than half of my life in the United States. Born in New York but raised in Tokyo, educated mostly in Japan, but also earned my graduate degrees in the United States and most of my academic career has been in Hawaii, so I’ve been in American academia for almost 30 years now, but I also have a dual appointment with the University of Tokyo in Japan. So I split my time between Japan and Hawaii now.  00:02:54 Isabel Li  Can you tell us a little bit about your work and your books? I had a chance to read Musicians from a Different Shore, but how would you summarize your research to someone who might not have read your book?  00:03:04 Mari Yoshihara  So I am a scholar of American studies, which is an interdisciplinary field that has anything to do with America broadly defined. And within that, my area of expertise is about, well, I would say I’m a scholar of US cultural history. US Asian relations, mostly US, East Asian relations, especially in the cultural dimension, cultural studies, gender studies, Asian American studies, etc. And so I have written a number of books, both in English and Japanese, but the one that you’re referring to, Musicians from a Different Shore, is a book that I did research for more than 20 years ago and was published in 2007. It’s a study of Asians and Asian Americans and classical music. So it was partly historical in that I examined the ways. which Western music, so-called western classical music, was introduced to East Asia and how also East Asians became have become so successful and prominent in this field that is generally considered a white European elite art form, so it was partly historical, but then the rest of the book was based on my ethnographic field work and interviews among Asians and Asian Americans in classical music looking at how well who these people are in the first place and then also how musicians, Asian and Asian musicians themselves, understand the relationship between their racial and cultural identity on the one hand, and their practice of Western classical music on the other, so that was my study.   And then I also wrote another book called Dearest Lenny. It’s about—the subtitle is Letters from Japan and the Making of the World Maestro. It’s about Leonard Bernstein’s relationship with two very special individuals in Japan. And through that story, I interweave an account of various things. For one thing, how Leonard Bernstein became a world maestro and also the relationship between politics and arts, gender, sexuality, art and commerce, etcetera, etcetera. So that was my most recent book published in English and then, I’m sure we’ll talk more about this, but I’m currently doing a follow up research on the on Musicians from a Different Shore, taking into account all the changes that have been taking place in the classical music industry in the United States in the past, I would say five years or so especially so that’s my that’s the abbreviated version of my research.  00:05:55 Isabel Li  That’s really cool, and I also want to ask you about these changes, if you can talk a little bit about the classical music world. I feel like classical music is one of those genres that seems to be unchanging on the outside. But as a scholar of classical music, what types of changes have you observed that has influenced how AAPI identities play into this world?  00:06:18 Mari Yoshihara  Yeah, I think especially in the last, I would say, yeah, 5 to 10 years, especially in the last five years, classical music industry in the United, I mean I say specifically in the United States because I don’t see the similar kind of changes taking place in Japan where I’m currently located. And I also don’t really know the situation in Europe. But the field of classical music in the US is changing. I think most significantly because of movements like the Black Lives Matter movement and also with the onset of COVID and the rise of anti Asian hate, there’s been a lot more heightened awareness about how issues of race and also class shapes classical music. So there’s a lot more vibrant conversations and debates about these topics in the industry and also in terms of AAPI community, are the biggest changes, the biggest change I’m seeing is that Asian and Asian American musicians themselves are being a lot more vocal and active in issues of race and racism in the field and there I’ve encountered many Asian and Asian American musicians who have, for instance, you know organized events or organizations, or taken up various forms of advocacy and activism on these issues. So compared to, say, 20 years ago, 20, 25 years ago, when I was doing the original research, I see a lot more kind of, you know, explicit awareness and awareness and articulation of these issues by Asian and Asian American musicians themselves.  00:08:12 Isabel Li  That’s really interesting. Just because classical music is also one of those genres, that doesn’t seem like a genre that most people explicitly associate with politics or activism. What are some examples of these, like activist movements that you’ve observed within the Asian American community in classical music?  00:08:32 Mari Yoshihara  So for instance, some Asian and Asian American musicians are are becoming a lot more vocal about the actual like racism or sexism that they have themselves experienced, or that they witness in the industry, like in in schools, conservatories, orchestras, opera companies, etc. Either through the media or you know their own writing, and also like speaking up within the organizations that they work in. So that’s one. There are other kinds of advocacy and activism in that they demand more diverse repertoire, and I think the repertoire is in terms of the industry industry changes. That’s the area that’s changing the most, the the kind of repertoire that many orchestras for instance perform have become a lot more– I mean overall it’s still very white, European centered– but in terms of the actual numbers of pieces that are performed, works by living, composers and composers of color, women composers, etcetera. That is significantly increased in the last 10 years and that is, you know significantly to do with the advocacy and activism on the part of, you know, artists of color.  So yeah, so things like that and then, you know, many Asian, Asian American artists are doing their own programming, for instance, like event organizing programming. So yeah, those are the areas that I see changes. I see things happening that I didn’t see 25 years ago.  00:10:20 Isabel Li  Definitely. I remember reading your book, and your book has been published since 2007, so a lot of changes have happened since then. But in general, when you did your research at first, what how would you summarize the dynamic of Asian identities, Asian American identities in this very Eurocentric field, it’s a juxtaposition of two different cultures and identities that a lot of people also observe in orchestras. There’s a large population of Asian and Asian American musicians, conductors just in general. It’s a very large population, but yet this identity is still not quite represented in media. It’s not quite seen, so talk to us a bit about this juxtaposition and how you observe these dynamics in your research.

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  8. AUG 28

    APEX Express – 8.28.25 – “And we became stateless again”

    A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists. Important Links: Hmong Innovating Politics: Website | Instagram Asian Refugees United: Website | Instagram Bhutanese American Refugee Rights website Transcript Swati Rayasam: You are tuned in to Apex Express on KPFA. My name is Swati Rayasam.  Since the onset of the Trump administration, immigrant and refugee communities have been under increased attack, being kidnapped in broad daylight, detained in unsanitary and unsafe conditions, and deported to countries many of them barely know. All without due process or communication to their loved ones and communities. On tonight’s episode, we’re focusing on a particular segment of our immigrant and refugee community, Hmong and Bhutanese refugees. Both of these targeted communities are stateless with no land to call their own, and their deportation carries the very real danger of disappearance and death. Robin Gurung from Asian Refugees United and Kao Ye Thao from Hmong innovating Politics, discuss their community and personal refugee stories, and talk about the intersection of the US’ deeply broken immigration and criminal legal systems, otherwise known as crimmigration. We also get to hear from the wives of two detained refugees, one Bhutanese and one Hmong, who are currently fighting to keep their families together and to protect their loved ones from the dangers of deportation as stateless people. I also want to note because this is a rapidly developing situation, that this episode was recorded on August 13th, 2025, and is being released on August 28th, 2025. For the most recent updates, please go to bhutaneserefugeerights.org or check out the Pardon Refugees campaign. Now, here’s Miko. Miko: Welcome to Apex Express. Thank you so much for being here today. I’m so glad to bring you all together in this time. I’m wondering if I could ask you each to introduce yourselves and tell us a little bit about the community your organization serves and what you do, and let’s start with Kao Ye.  Kao Ye: Hello everyone, and thank you for making space- my name is Kao Ye Tao. I use she her pronouns, and I work as the director of policy and partnerships with an organization called Hmong Innovating Politics. We are an organization that serves Hmong youth and families in Sacramento and Fresno, which holds two of our largest Hmong American communities in California. And our work with Hmong youth and families is really about developing their leadership to organize towards social justice and to get the resources that their communities deserve. Miko: Thank you, Kao Ye and Robin, could you please introduce yourself? Robin: Sure. My name is Robin Gurung. I use he, him, his, I’m from the Nepali speaking Bhutanese community. I live in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. my role at Asian Refugees United is the co-founder and the co-executive director. We have our program in California and Pennsylvania. California programs are, are serving Asian diaspora and then, Pennsylvania programs are focused serving the Nepal speaking Bhutanese community. We work in the intersection of arts and healing, storytelling, civic engagement, leadership development. Thank you. Miko: Thanks Robin and I am your host Miko Lee, lead producer at Apex Express. And all of us are part of a network called AACRE Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality, which is a network of progressive Asian American groups. So you all work with refugee populations. I’m wondering if you could tell a little bit more about the backstory of your community, and also if you feel comfortable about how you personally came to be a refugee in the United States. And, Robin, I’d love to start with you on that one. Robin: Sure. My community is Nepali speaking, Bhutanese refugee community. And we are ethnically Nepali, which means culture wise and language wise we speak Nepali and follow the Nepali culture tradition. Our ancestors like maybe in 18 hundreds, 19 hundreds migrated from Nepal to Bhutan and became the citizen of that country. And most people don’t know about Bhutan, it’s a very tiny country between China and India. And, if people know about Bhutan, then people know it through the cross national happiness concept, Bhutan is considered the happiest country in the world. So our ancestors were in mostly in the southern area of Bhutan for generations, they became the citizen. They had their own home, their own land. And then later, 1980s, early nineties, there was a policy by the government of Bhutan, which is the monarchy government system- king rules the country. They brought a policy called One Nation, One People Policy. Which means all different groups of people would have to follow the same culture, same religion, kind of follow the same dress code and because of that policy all people were forced to stay away from following our own culture or our own religion, which, most of our folks were Hindu. Our people protested against it and because of that, the government expelled over a hundred thousand of our community members. And, they expelled to India and then from like India wouldn’t allow us to stay and we had to resettle in Nepal in seven different refugee camps under different international agencies like U-N-H-C-R and other agencies. Miko: And then Robin, can you tell a little bit about your personal story and how you came here? Robin: Yeah. Yeah. So 1992 is when my family had to leave Bhutan. And at that time I was three years old. I remember growing up in a refugee camp in Nepal, from three years until I was 23 years. So 20 years of my life I was in a refugee camp in Nepal. And in 2012, I came to US through the refugee resettlement program introduced to our camps in 2008, and through it US agreed to resettle 60,000 of our committee members. By 2017, I think US has resettled about 70 to 80,000 of our Bhutanese community members.   Miko: Thank you so much for sharing. Kao Ye I wonder if you could talk about your community and the refugee resettlement program that your community was a part of. Kao Ye: The Hmong American community, or just the Hmong community overall, is a group that’s indigenous to East and Southeast Asia. And through our ancient history, we’ve always been a stateless, people fighting for our autonomy to live to practice our customs and our culture. And particularly where we come into this history of refugee is during the Vietnam War where many Hmong people, alongside other ethnic groups in Laos, were caught in the crossfire of the United States conflict in Southeast Asia. And so with the Vietnam War. The Hmong as well as many other ethnic communities that lived, in the hills and the mountains were recruited in covert operations by the CIA to fight back against the Vietnamese, the Northern Vietnamese communist forces, as well as the Putet Lao. And so once the US withdrew from Southeast Asia, it created a vacuum of conflict and violence that our people had to escape from in order to survive. And so after the Vietnam War in 1975, we saw the mass displacement of many Southeast Asian ethnic communities, including Hmong families. And that is where my history starts because my parents were born in Laos and because of this war, they fled to Thailand refugee camps and lived there for a few years until they were able to come to the United States in 1992. And I’m actually I’m a child of refugees and so what I know about this part of my history comes from the stories of my grandparents who raised me as well as what little I could learn in the textbooks of public education. And so it wasn’t actually until going to college and. Being able to access more of this literature, this history that I really learned about what the United States had done in Southeast Asia and the ramifications of that for myself and my family and so many others, refugees that. Have to have had to resettle in the United States. And so it’s definitely a history that runs very close, because we have relatives that live through that refugee experience. And so it is very well and alive. And so as we now approach this conversation around ICE and deportations, it really is a reminder of the trauma that our people face, but are still facing as a people that have been seen as disposable to the United States government. Miko: Thanks, Kao Ye. Let’s talk a little bit more about that. But first I wanna say, did either of you ever hear about refugees in your textbooks? I never did. So I’m wondering if, you said you learned a little bit about that from textbooks. Was that something you learned in public education. Kao Ye: I did not learn about refugees or refugees experience. I learned about the war and as a Hmong kid it brought me so much delight to try to scroll through the history books just to see if Hmong people were mentioned. And even then the refugee experience was not ever something that we talked about. I felt like definitely not in, in high school. I think it was college really, that then started to articulate those terms and that Southeast Asian identity, that is really where I think I also became politicized in that. Miko: Yeah, because I think in textbooks there might be a little section on the Vietnam War, but it does not talk about the, all the Southeast Asian ethnic peoples that actually fought in the war. We have to dig that information out on our own, but I wanna move us to what is happening right now. So the Trump administration has created. Culture of fear among immigrants and refugees, these ICE raids and disappearances. It is so intense and using immigrants as a fear tool to prop up white supremacy is so blatant right now. I’m wondering if you can each talk about, how this administration’s policies are impacting your communities. And, Robin, let’s start with you. What is happening right now? I

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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
9 Ratings

About

Apex Express is a proud collective member of AACRE, Asian Americans for Civil Rights and Equality. AACRE focuses on long-term movement building, capacity infrastructure, and leadership support for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders committed to social justice.

Information

  • Creator
    KPFA
  • Years Active
    2015 - 2025
  • Episodes
    25
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025KPFA 312700
  • Show Website
    KPFA - APEX Express

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