No Way Out

Mark McGrath and Brian "Ponch" Rivera

Welcome to the No Way Out podcast where we examine the variety of domains and disciplines behind John R. Boyd’s OODA sketch and why, today, more than ever, it is an imperative to understand Boyd’s axiomatic sketch of how organisms, individuals, teams, corporations, and governments comprehend, shape, and adapt in our VUCA world.

  1. AI’s D&C Cycles Accelerate: Harmonizing Agents and The Big 'O’rientation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD

    4 SEPT.

    AI’s D&C Cycles Accelerate: Harmonizing Agents and The Big 'O’rientation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD

    Send us a text What if we've been thinking about AI all wrong? What if endless scaling isn't the answer, but instead we need systems that understand context, embody knowledge, and grasp causal relationships like living organisms do? In this mind-expanding conversation with Mahault Albarracin, PhD, VERSES AI Director of Research Strategy – recorded on the 49th anniversary of John Boyd's seminal paper "Destruction and Creation" – we journey through the fascinating landscape where neuroscience meets artificial intelligence. Mahault shares how her background in social sciences led her to active inference, a framework that models intelligence after natural cognitive systems rather than linear engineering approaches, echoing Boyd's emphasis on breaking down outdated mental models to create adaptive new ones. The parallels between Karl Friston's active inference and Boyd's OODA loop emerge vividly, as both frameworks highlight prediction, orientation in complex environments, and harmonizing changing tactical actions with evolving strategic intentions. We explore why current AI systems struggle with tasks humans find intuitive – they lack embodiment within spatial-temporal reality and fail to grasp how context shifts meaning, much like the limitations Boyd critiqued in rigid, backwards-planning strategies. Perhaps most provocatively, we challenge the dominant AI doom narratives, tracing them to biases rooted in defense funding, colonial hierarchies, and adversarial worldviews. Could our fears of malevolent artificial intelligence simply reflect our own projections? What if, instead of building systems expecting friction, we created AI capable of empathy, resonance, and connection? As Mahault suggests, "The condition for AI alignment is to give it the ability to love us, to have empathy, to see us as kin rather than just objectives." The conversation ranges from the technical details of the spatial web (creating interoperable standards for meaningful, privacy-respecting data connectivity) to philosophical questions about consciousness, harmony in multi-agent systems, and NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 7 min
  2. Human-Agent Team of Teams: Active Inference AI & The Spatial Web w/ Dr. David Bray and Denise Holt

    26 AOÛT

    Human-Agent Team of Teams: Active Inference AI & The Spatial Web w/ Dr. David Bray and Denise Holt

    Send us a text The technological paradigm we've grown accustomed to—with centralized AI models hallucinating answers and requiring massive energy consumption—is about to undergo a profound transformation. This fascinating conversation explores how active inference AI, inspired by the principles of biological intelligence, offers a fundamentally different approach that could reshape our technological landscape. Dr. David Bray articulates the critical distinction between current AI systems that merely pattern-match based on past data versus the emerging active inference models that continuously predict, observe, and update their (Orientation) understanding of the world. These systems don't just regurgitate information; they develop mental models that allow them to navigate novelty and uncertainty just as our brains do. Meanwhile, Denise Holt explains how the newly ratified spatial web protocol creates the infrastructure for these distributed intelligence systems to operate across networks with shared context and meaning. What makes this shift particularly compelling is its potential to restore human agency in technological systems. Rather than the surveillance capitalism model that has dominated recent decades, active inference AI within the spatial web framework enables pre-compute permissions and constraints, allowing individuals to specify what they want to happen (or not happen) with their digital identity. This represents a fundamental realignment of power dynamics in our technological future. The implications extend beyond individual experience to organizational performance, national security, and global commerce. From detecting weak signals that might indicate emerging threats to managing complex adaptive systems like supply chains, this approach enables decentralized intelligence that can process information closer to where it's needed—at the edge. Ready to explore this new frontier of AI? Connect with Denise Holt at Learning Lab Central to join a community focused on active inference and the s NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 5 min
  3. Outmaneuver Complexity: AI Gold Rush 2.0 & Adaptive Capacity with David Woods, PhD

    29 JUIL.

    Outmaneuver Complexity: AI Gold Rush 2.0 & Adaptive Capacity with David Woods, PhD

    Send us a text What happens when our increasingly interconnected systems face unexpected challenges? Dr. David Woods, pioneer of resilience engineering, explores how organizations can build the adaptive capacity needed to survive in an age of growing complexity. Drawing from decades studying high-risk industries, Woods frames our current technological moment with historical perspective. The "second AI gold rush" unfolds with familiar patterns – promising seamless automation while overlooking the inevitable new complexities and vulnerabilities that emerge. Through compelling examples from Boeing's 737 MAX disasters to financial system collapses, he demonstrates how brittle systems eventually break when organizations prioritize short-term productivity over long-term resilience. Woods introduces core principles of adaptive organizations – graceful extensibility, the capacity to reconfigure and reprioritize under pressure, and the critical ability to anticipate approaching saturation points before collapse occurs. He challenges the linear thinking that dominates most organizations, explaining why reframing – updating our mental models to match changing reality – proves so difficult yet essential for survival. Whether you're navigating organizational challenges, interested in the future of human-AI collaboration, or seeking to understand resilience in an uncertain world, this episode provides essential frameworks for thinking differently about complexity, surprise, and adaptation when failure isn't an option. David Woods on LinkedIn Dept. of Integrated Systems Engineering, David Woods, PhD  NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 46 min
  4. Reorienting Safety: Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) with Todd Conklin

    16 JUIL.

    Reorienting Safety: Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) with Todd Conklin

    Send us a text The gap between how work is imagined and how work actually happens sits at the heart of our most persistent safety challenges. In this illuminating conversation with Professor Todd Conklin, we explore how Human and Organizational Performance (HOP) has evolved from its origins in high-consequence industries to become a powerful framework for understanding and improving safety across sectors. Conklin traces HOP's development as a response to the limitations of behavioral-based safety approaches, explaining why scared people don't take scary jobs and how high-risk environments require systems thinking rather than worker-focused interventions. The discussion reveals a fundamental shift: redefining safety not as the absence of harm but as a capacity organizations actively build. Perhaps most striking is the transformation in how we view workers' roles. "The worker is not the problem," Conklin emphasizes. "The worker is the problem solver." This perspective upends traditional safety management by recognizing that expertise exists at every level of an organization, and that workers constantly adapt to hold together imperfect systems. Pre-Accident Investigation Podcast Todd Conklin on LinkedIn  NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 23 min
  5. From Big Bang to Brain: How Entropy Shapes Safety and Systems with David Slater, PhD

    9 JUIL.

    From Big Bang to Brain: How Entropy Shapes Safety and Systems with David Slater, PhD

    Send us a text Step into the fascinating world where neuroscience meets safety in this mind-expanding conversation with Professor David Slater. Beyond conventional safety thinking, we explore how our brains actually construct reality and what this means for creating truly resilient organizations. The discussion begins with an unexpected parallel between Formula 1 pit crews and workplace safety. Professor Slater reveals how these highly choreographed teams regularly "cut corners" to achieve sub-two-second pit stops—highlighting the universal truth that humans adapt systems to meet demands, regardless of formal procedures. This adaptation, far from being problematic, forms the core of what makes systems work in reality versus theory. What makes this episode particularly valuable is Slater's masterful connection between thermodynamics, entropy, and organizational safety. He guides us through a compelling framework where safety isn't simply the absence of accidents but the maintenance of quasi-equilibrium states in complex systems. The human brain serves as the ultimate control system in this equation, constantly working to predict and respond to environmental changes. Perhaps most provocatively, Slater challenges the very notion of "human error," calling it "too facile" and "a get-out-of-jail card" organizations use to avoid addressing systemic issues. Instead, he offers a more nuanced understanding of how perception shapes decision-making, explaining why two people can experience the same situation completely differently. This insight alone transforms how we might approach incident investigations and safety culture development. The conversation extends into practical territory, examining how organizations can foster the conditions for adaptation, psychological safety, and high performance. Rather than relying on checklists alone, Slater advocates for systems thinking that accommodates human variability while ensuring everyone understands how their role contributes to the larger whole. Ready to challenge your assumptions about safety, perception, and human performance? This episode will leave you with practical insights and a deeper appreciation for how neurosci NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 2 min
  6. Pre-Event Indicators: Staying Left of Bang With Patrick Van Horne

    2 JUIL.

    Pre-Event Indicators: Staying Left of Bang With Patrick Van Horne

    Send us a text What if you could see disruption coming before it hits? The concept of "Left of Bang" transforms how we understand threat detection and strategic advantage—not just in combat zones, but in boardrooms, investment portfolios, and everyday situations. Patrick Van Horne, co-author of "Left of Bang" and former Marine Corps Combat Hunter instructor, breaks down this powerful framework that was originally developed to help Marines identify insurgent threats in Iraq and Afghanistan. The premise is elegantly simple: "bang" is any critical event that forces reaction, and positioning yourself "left of bang" means you've anticipated it, prepared for it, and can potentially shape the outcome rather than merely responding to it. The discussion reveals how this approach creates fractal advantages across different domains. For business leaders, it means establishing systems to monitor weak signals and market shifts. For investors, it provides a framework to recognize patterns before markets react. For security professionals, it sharpens threat recognition. At every level, the methodology transforms reactive thinking into proactive positioning. Van Horne explains that when disruption hits, organizations typically follow one of three paths: immediate collapse, diminished survival, or adaptive growth. The difference isn't luck—it's preparation, awareness, and the ability to detect what others miss. He introduces practical components like establishing baselines (what's normal), identifying watch points (indicators to monitor), and setting action points (thresholds that trigger decisions). The episode underscores the synergy between Left of Bang and Boyd’s OODA loop, highlighting how both empower individuals and organizations to stay ahead of disruptions by embracing adaptability, decentralized decision-making, and a deep understanding of complex environments. Van Horne’s insights, grounded in real-world applications, make a compelling case for why Left of Bang is essential reading for anyone seeking to thrive in uncertainty—whether in combat, business, or everyday life.  Patrick Van Horne on Lin NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 14 min
  7. Learning War, Winning in the Age of AI: Lessons in Adaptive Strategy with Trent Hone

    26 JUIN

    Learning War, Winning in the Age of AI: Lessons in Adaptive Strategy with Trent Hone

    Send us a text What can today's organizations learn from the US Navy's approach to innovation during the rapid technological changes of the 1920s, 30s, and 40s? Trent Hone reveals how naval leadership created a remarkably effective learning system during this era of transformation. The Navy's secret wasn't centralized control—it was distributed experimentation coupled with systematic assessment. Junior officers were encouraged to test new approaches with radar, aircraft, and fire control systems, while the organization built mechanisms to evaluate results and incorporate successful tactics into doctrine. This systematic approach to innovation allowed the Navy to adapt quickly to changing circumstances while capitalizing on the creativity of its personnel. As Hone explains, this balance shifted during WWII when standardization became more important. The post-war Navy continued innovating but in a more centralized, top-down manner. Today's Navy could benefit from recapturing elements of that earlier, more distributed innovation system—particularly when facing technological revolutions in AI, software, and uncrewed systems. The conversation explores leadership lessons from iconic naval commanders like Nimitz and Spruance, who maintained multiple paths to victory rather than fixating on single approaches. Their close working relationship created tacit understanding that made complex operations flow more smoothly—a lesson for any organization navigating uncertainty. Nimitz's cross-functional organization of his Pacific command stands in contrast to MacArthur's more traditional hierarchical approach, showing how organizational structure impacts adaptability. Whether you're leading a tech company navigating AI or a military organization facing emerging threats, this discussion offers valuable insights on building adaptive organizations through systematic innovation, team cohesion, and maintaining strategic optionality in complex environments. Join us for this fascinating exploration of how naval history illuminates the challenges of innovation in today's rapidly changing world. Trent Hone NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 11 min
  8. Drones, Airspace, AI, and Decision Making: DroneUp CEO on Leading in Complexity

    2 JUIN

    Drones, Airspace, AI, and Decision Making: DroneUp CEO on Leading in Complexity

    Send us a text When Tom Walker walked into a Best Buy and saw drone technology more advanced than the space shuttle selling for under $1,000, he knew aerial autonomous systems would fundamentally change society. What he couldn't have predicted was reconnecting with a former 13-96 OCS classmate decades later to discuss how military experience shapes innovation in the rapidly evolving drone industry. The stakes couldn't be higher. With over a million drones now flying in US airspace—outnumbering manned aircraft four to one—and that number projected to double by 2027, we face an unprecedented airspace integration challenge without adequate systems to protect general aviation. Recent near-misses, go-arounds, and actual collisions with manned aircraft highlight the urgency of finding solutions that balance innovation with safety. Drawing on his submarine background, Walker brings unique perspectives to these challenges. The military's emphasis on teamwork, contingency planning, and mission focus has directly influenced his leadership approach in an industry where pivoting is essential for survival. "I don't want the subject matter experts defining the outcome," he explains, "but I know I need them to help me understand the complexities of each stakeholder." Perhaps most fascinating is the discussion around autonomy and human oversight. As AI advances, Tom and Ponch agree that human judgment remains irreplaceable in critical decision-making. When a drone approaches a target and discovers a daycare center nearby, or when a delivery drone encounters an unexpected dog, who makes the final call? This tension between technological capability and ethical judgment permeates both commercial and military applications. The conversation culminates with a powerful insight about resilience: "Sometimes getting punched in the mouth means you're on exactly the right path. You just didn't realize the significance of the change you were trying to make." In an industry transforming how we think about airspace, transportation, and autonomy, this philosophy may prove essential for those brave enough to lead the way. Want to hear more conversations with innovative leaders applying milit NWO Intro with Boyd March 25, 2025 Flow Learning Lab Find us on X. @NoWayOutcast Substack: The Whirl of ReOrientation Want to develop your organization’s capacity for free and independent action (Organic Success)? Learn more and follow us at: https://www.aglx.com/ https://www.youtube.com/@AGLXConsulting https://www.linkedin.com/company/aglx-consulting-llc/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/briandrivera https://www.linkedin.com/in/markjmcgrath1 https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevemccrone Stay in the Loop. Don't have time to listen to the podcast? Want to make some snowmobiles? Subscribe to our weekly newsletter to receive deeper insights on current and past episodes. Recent podcasts where you’ll also find Mark and Ponch: The No Bell Podcast Episode 24 ...

    1 h 5 min
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À propos

Welcome to the No Way Out podcast where we examine the variety of domains and disciplines behind John R. Boyd’s OODA sketch and why, today, more than ever, it is an imperative to understand Boyd’s axiomatic sketch of how organisms, individuals, teams, corporations, and governments comprehend, shape, and adapt in our VUCA world.

Informations

  • Création
    Mark McGrath and Brian "Ponch" Rivera
  • Années d’activité
    2023 - 2025
  • Épisodes
    124
  • Classification
    Contenu explicite
  • Copyright
    © 2025 AGLX - No Way Out
  • Site web de l’émission
    No Way Out

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