Small Efforts - with Sean Sun and Andrew Askins

Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
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Two agency owners and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.

  1. 2D AGO

    Doubled overnight

    Andrew doubles MetaMonster customers in one week and is launching credit-based free trials! 🚀 Sean's still drowning in Miscreants growth (by the way Miscreants is hiring). Plus: LinkedIn strategy shifts, AI acquisition dynamics, and Sean just figured out what "I have to charge" actually means. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:00.83Seanwhats up? 00:01.73AndrewHey, we back. 00:01.83SeanWhere are you? 00:03.17Andrewis this Is this the start of season? What season are we on? Season four? 00:06.65SeanYeah, this is... 00:06.70AndrewThis is season four, episode two. 00:07.29Seanthis is 00:08.18AndrewAre we going to bury episode one forever and make it our new Lost Tapes? Or are we going to, do you want me to release it? Make a decision right now? 00:17.64Seanfeel like... It seems like you want to bury it so we can bury it. 00:20.54AndrewYeah, kind of. 00:21.32SeanYeah. Okay. 00:22.37AndrewI feel like I just rambled for 30 minutes. 00:22.55SeanYeah. We can bury it. 00:24.88AndrewAnd I was also like, You definitely caught me on the downturn of the startup roller coaster like mental cycle. And i'm I'm feeling more positive this week. 00:33.35Seanand 00:35.37AndrewSo let's start on a good note. 00:35.99SeanCool. There was no such thing as everyone. Cool. Done. Easy. Yeah. Great. How you doing? Where where are you? This is not the usual background. 00:45.64AndrewI am it no, no. I'm in Columbia, South Carolina, cat sitting for my parents. My parents are jet setting around Europe, living their retired life to the fullest. 00:52.21SeanNice. 00:56.16SeanCool. 00:57.40AndrewMy German aunt is getting remarried this week. 01:01.31SeanSweet. 01:01.43AndrewSo there went to London and then Amsterdam and then Germany. And then they're going to Denmark on a joint honeymoon with my aunt and her new husband. 01:11.16SeanOkay. 01:12.08AndrewYeah. 01:14.89SeanJoint honeymoon. Cool. Okay. 01:17.32Andrewyeah 01:17.56SeanI've never heard that term like used before, but that makes sense. 01:20.53AndrewIt's not real. Like they, they actually got married a few months ago and this is just like the wedding celebration. 01:22.25SeanCool. 01:25.98AndrewAnd so they just wanted to go on a weekend trip with my parents. And so I've been joking with my mom that she's going on Giese's honeymoon with her, but that's not really what's happening. 01:30.24SeanCool. 01:39.13AndrewI'm cat sitting, hanging out with Ruthie. 01:38.82SeanCool. 01:41.76SeanNice. Nice, nice. 01:42.69AndrewYeah. My cat's got it. 01:44.03SeanI'm going to a wedding. 01:45.87AndrewHuh? 01:46.59SeanI'm going to a wedding. 01:47.80AndrewOh, fun. 01:49.23SeanYeah, but tell about your cat first. What what about Ruthie? 01:51.29AndrewOh, I was just going to say earlier this year, my mom got a, what she calls her resistance cat. cat's name is RBG, uh, and we call her Ruthie. 01:58.81SeanOh, nice. Nice. 02:00.38AndrewSo she's adorable. Big fan. 02:02.45SeanCool. Oh, cool. Hope she also lives to like 90 something. 02:06.11AndrewI hope so too. 02:08.05SeanYeah, i'm going I'm going to like my first wedding ever because it's not even a wedding. 02:12.32AndrewOh my God. How is this your first wedding? I've, I feel like I've been going to weddings nonstop for the last 10 years. 02:21.16Seanmaybe this is the start to that. 02:21.12AndrewMaybe this is like, maybe, yeah, we are different ages, which I forget often. 02:24.29SeanYeah. 02:28.09AndrewI'm old and getting older every day. 02:29.42SeanYeah. 02:32.45SeanYou don't look a day over 40, my friend. 02:38.06Andrewi also wonder if it's partially a New York thing versus a like growing up in the Southeast thing. If my friends got married young. 02:42.58SeanNo, just my a*****e friends just don't like there's like f**k a wedding. We just got married and didn't tell you. And then and then like that's that's all. 02:50.31AndrewTo be fair, that's kind of what I want to do. I think I i want to elope with just like parents and then and then throw a big ass party because I do not want to pay the wedding markup. 02:53.65SeanSee. This is. 02:58.78SeanNice. 03:01.40AndrewI'm not about that life. 03:01.77SeanYeah, fair. I think um fair. I think um this, these friends, he's a summer camp friend from like high school and just always kept in touch for years. 03:09.81AndrewOh, no way. That's cool. 03:12.25Seanloosely, loosely. They also got married in middle of COVID and they just never actually had like a wedding-esque party. So this isn't even, technically I've never been to it. 03:22.42SeanWell, think my cousin got married when I was really young. So I think I've been there, but outside of like, actually as a brain functioning adult, like I've never seen people consummate their marriage or whatever the that's not what that means. 03:36.78Andrewi Yeah, I don't think I have either. 03:38.47Seanas an Okay. 03:38.54Andrewi don't i don't think that's like a thing anymore, Sean. 03:39.62SeanSorry. 03:42.08SeanNot what I'm, I've never seen people publicly like make vows to each other in the, in a wedding setting. Not consummate does not mean what I, 03:49.86AndrewOkay, fair. 03:51.64Seanthought of me you know what's crazy we're gonna go on a tangent really quickly guess what i just realized yesterday after like 18 years you know the song my milkshake brings on the boys of the yard okay this is the this is like 03:58.37AndrewWhat's that? 04:02.17AndrewYep. 04:05.51AndrewAre you just now realizing that's about boobs? 04:08.60Seanno i'm just realizing that when she says i have to charge she meant i have to like charge you money ever since i was a kid ever since i was a kid like when i first heard that song 04:14.92AndrewOh! 04:21.06SeanI thought she meant like, i don't know, I have to like charge the machine or I'm out of milkshake. I have to like recharge it. And I always thought that song made no f*****g sense. But now it's trending because of the whole Cat's Eye Gap commercial. 04:34.45AndrewI have no idea what commercial you're talking about. And to be honest, have never heard that line or never noti...

    44 min

  2. 2D AGO

    Season 4! Repositioning MetaMonster and Miscreant's explosive growth

    Andrew moved to Atlanta and is going all-in on MetaMonster while Sean drowns in Miscreants sales calls! 🚀 They dive into repositioning struggles, the push vs pull dilemma, and why lead magnets might be the answer. Plus: DEF CON madness, Webflow disasters, and someone made an AI review of MetaMonster. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:00.50SeanWhat's up? 00:02.12AndrewWhat up, man? 00:02.99SeanLong time. Yeah. 00:04.19AndrewHas been a long time. When was the last one of these we did? Like, at least six weeks ago. 00:08.07SeanThe last... I think the last one we did, you interviewed someone else. I was replaced. 00:12.88AndrewOh, with Louie. OK. 00:14.20SeanYeah. Yeah. That was good one. That good. 00:16.73AndrewYeah, that was fun. 00:17.87SeanYeah. 00:19.34AndrewIt has horrible ah ah stats on Transistor. I haven't checked the YouTube stats. 00:24.88SeanOh. but They just like me. You know? They... 00:28.93AndrewLet's see. 00:30.81AndrewLet's see, let's see. What? Has anyone listened to this? 00:36.56SeanYou know we got 51. 00:36.86AndrewOh, wow. 00:37.08SeanUh-huh. 00:38.26Andrewoh wow. Our latest videos are not doing well. But to be fair, 00:44.08SeanInternally. 00:44.66Andrewyeah that episode, lol, I heard heard our autoplay video. 00:45.51SeanMm-hmm. 00:49.74SeanOh. 00:51.90Andrew43 whole views on on that that episode. 00:55.21SeanNot bad. Yeah. 00:58.62AndrewWe're we're killing it. 01:00.08SeanYeah. ah But we got 51 subscribers, so, like, i don't know. 01:05.20AndrewDo we really? 01:06.10SeanYeah, 51 subscribers on YouTube. 01:08.78AndrewThis is not going to be interesting to anyone listening. Like, we're the only ones who give a f**k how many YouTube subscribers we have. 01:11.100SeanYeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sorry everyone. 01:15.36AndrewAlso, 50 is such a silly number. 01:17.60SeanYeah. 01:19.98AndrewYeah. 01:20.46SeanCan't wait for my 50 subscriber YouTube play button. 01:23.16SeanIt's a cardboard with a little poop stain on it. 01:30.36AndrewYeah, a lot has changed since we last chatted and also not a lot has changed. 01:33.88SeanMm-hmm. 01:35.94AndrewI am now living in Atlanta. 01:39.28SeanAnd you're leaving me. 01:41.66Andrewand Well, just like we're not breaking up. 01:43.04SeanWe're breaking up. 01:45.78AndrewWe're going on a break. It's different. 01:47.22Seanwow Can I see other people? 01:50.18AndrewYeah, sure. 01:52.08SeanWe're breaking up. We're broken up. It's okay. It's okay. I'm happy for you. Anything I'm jealous. 01:57.43Andrewyeah so I'm living in Atlanta. I was, I working with scout last time we talked. to 02:03.08SeanNot on the podcast, I think. 02:05.94AndrewOkay. 02:06.60SeanYeah. 02:07.80AndrewI have a new client. it's been a lot of fun. They're in, uh, you an AI agent platform for sales teams. 02:15.37SeanYeah. 02:16.28Andrewand, uh, I'm basically a fractional CMO, which has been really fun. So I'm like, you hiring agencies and contractors and building marketing processes and trying to figure out how to, how to drive leads. 02:30.29Andrewgot to bring in a friends agency. That's going super well. metamonster like, it's not like not going at all. Like I'm having it a couple of conversations a week probably, but, uh, they are not turning into customers. So, 02:49.04Andrewgotta figure some shit out there which is why i'm talking about taking a break from miscreants work for a little while to focus on metamonster yeah i don't know where do you want to start 03:02.24SeanLet's start, I mean, I don't know, let's talk about MetaMonster. Let's talk about like i feel like, I feel like we're chatting on Slack about like, you know, lead magnets and whether or not you have to nurture folks, you know, it feels like the people that are but you're speaking to are like interested but not ready to like buy or try. 03:20.75Seanare they Are they like, are you giving them a trial or 03:24.94AndrewYeah, so 03:27.06Andrewwe... Okay, so since we last spoke, we updated the Metamonster positioning. So we were calling ourselves like an SEO web crawler and sort of a ah ah site audit tool. 03:34.32SeanMm-hmm. 03:42.18AndrewWe've tried to move away from that to more of like an SEO automation platform. our new so our new h one um scale on page seo optimization with ai and we're trying to sort of position ourselves against like chat gpt and manual processes and you know we didn't we didn't go for like a category because i don't know that ah seo automation platform is like an established category today so i wasn't i wasn't sure that would be widely recognized enough to resonate with people so we 04:18.45SeanYeah. 04:19.95Andrewsort of just have this like use case positioning and then we talk you know ah try to position ourselves against like doing seo work manually in with like just chat gpt or claude and then we've been working on totally revamping the product so know when we started it was like push button get meta descriptions and now 04:34.47Seanyeah 04:48.14AndrewWe're, in the next week or two, going to be like phasing out the old UI and phasing in the new UI, which is all like, it's basically like a spreadsheet with AI superpowers. 04:59.62Andrewso you get a 04:59.100Seanyou know 05:02.65Andrewyou can crawl your site, get all of your site data in a table, and then run prompts, run prompts against like every page on your site. 05:14.35AndrewAnd we give you a bunch of prompt templates out of the box to let you do all sorts of things like page titles and meta descriptions, but also generate H1s and image alt text and structured schema and a bunch of other things. 05:30.18AndrewWe also have like now have like site-wide chat. So you can use that for like site-wide analysis and one-off tasks like the blog post I just published for you last night about how to generate an LLMS.txt file, which by the way, you don't need, but you know, whatever. 05:48.41SeanMm-hmm. 05:49.78Andrewokay. So we, so I've been updating the site to like include lots of screenshots and, and descriptions of the new ui try to update the positioning to be more use case focused, like scale on page SEO, 06:05.86Andrewas the sort of the use case and then we removed we didn't remove our pr...

    52 min

  3. JUN 20

    Louis Nicholls on the future of SaaS and the top 5 rom coms of all time

    We've got a special guest on the pod today! Louis from Sparkloop joins to share how they evolved from referrals to recommendations and sold to Kit! 🚀 Meanwhile Andrew gets Louis's take on MetaMonster's positioning struggles and they debate how and why the SaaS landscape is changing. Plus: the most detailed rom-com ranking you've ever heard, featuring hidden gems and heated debates about classics. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Louis's Twitter: @louisnicholls_Sparkloop (newsletter recommendations platform): https://sparkloop.app/Grow your newsletter: https://www.growmynewsletter.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:00:01.03AndrewHey, what's up, man? 00:00:02.44LouisHey man, how's it going? It's been a while. 00:00:04.43AndrewIt has. Astute listeners might notice that you are not Sean Sun, founder of Miscreants. Do you want to introduce yourself real quick? 00:00:13.90LouisYeah, my name Louis. I am the co-founder of Sparkloop. I'm a huge rom-com enthusiast, which I think we're going to get to later. and 00:00:23.11AndrewHell yeah. 00:00:24.25LouisI guess I'm a probably more of like a reformed indie hacker. People might know me from that, but more likely nowadays, if you're a newsletter nerd in the newsletter space, you probably have come across Sparkloop or maybe seen me online or something like that. 00:00:41.21AndrewReformed. Does that mean you don't identify as an indie hacker anymore? 00:00:44.76LouisOh, no, no, I do. I just don't hang out in the as much in like the IndieHack bootstrap founder space anymore. my My Twitter and LinkedIn have been taken over by self-interested business interests of talking about newsletters, which is a lot more lucrative. 00:00:51.89AndrewYeah. 00:00:59.73LouisYeah. 00:00:59.94AndrewYeah. So, okay. How long ago now did you sell Sparkloop? How long has it been? 00:01:06.67LouisWe sold just over two years ago. We were bought by then ConvertKit, now Kit, which I think we... 00:01:10.16AndrewOkay. 00:01:14.78LouisDid we talk about this shortly before or shortly? Maybe we met shortly after, actually, I think. 00:01:19.18AndrewI think both. 00:01:20.17AndrewI think we, you and i met in New York. I was working for Grey Noise at the time. And you told me, i don't remember if you actually told me it was ConvertKit. I think you told me you were like considering an acquisition and that there was some stuff in the works. 00:01:31.86LouisHmm. 00:01:33.80AndrewAnd then I think we hung out again, last year sometime after you'd sold to ConvertKit, when I was like starting to, oh yeah, because like last December, you and i were actually talking about like maybe collabing on some stuff. 00:01:48.50LouisYeah. 00:01:49.80LouisYeah, yeah, 00:01:50.82AndrewI quoted you some ridiculously high number to do something. I don't even remember what exactly. like I think some of the like personal brand stuff that you've started doing, was going to help with some of that maybe. 00:02:01.79Louisyeah. Mm-hmm. 00:02:03.39AndrewAnd then then, yeah, I think I probably talked to you to just like ask you for some startup advice at some point, which I'm now doing again under the guise of having you on as a podcast guest. 00:02:15.33LouisIt's the the best way to do it. i yeah I remember we were, i think the last time we properly talked was actually not about about this startup at all. It was about the in-email charts thing, I think, was the last time we had like a proper long conversation. 00:02:33.24AndrewYeah, good memory. I'm impressed that you remember what it even was. Yeah, that was ChartJuice. was I think at the time it was probably ChartKit. 00:02:42.64LouisMm-hmm. 00:02:43.87AndrewAnd then had a co-founder, he left, and he owned the domain, so I bought chartjuice.com. And then... 00:02:54.82AndrewBuilt it, probably shouldn't have ever built it. Like, I don't think it was like ever really a great market. But I did the classic indie hacker thing where I was like, I kind of just want to build something and I wanted to learn to code again. 00:03:08.23AndrewAnd Chart Juice felt very like not intimidating. It felt easy to build. And so I spent a few months building it, launched it to Crickets and then was like, all right, I need to actually build something that I think people will buy now And so, yeah. 00:03:22.97LouisAlways a oh it a good idea. I wish you had, with a name like Chart Juice, it wasn't called Chart Juice at the time, but a name like Chart Juice, that deserves to be a podcast growth agency. 00:03:30.27AndrewYeah. 00:03:35.87LouisThere should be a podcast growth agency called Chart Juice out there. 00:03:39.11AndrewHonestly, that is so true. Someone has like a, someone has a oh, it's, it's a productized service that will submit your startup to a bunch of directories. 00:03:54.29AndrewAnd it's called like submit juice or something like that. 00:03:54.53Louissee 00:03:57.23LouisI don't like that one so much. 00:03:58.44Andrewno, no. 00:03:58.79LouisThat's... No. Gotta be careful with juice. 00:04:01.82AndrewYeah, you do got to be careful with juice. Yeah, honestly, Podcast Curse Agency makes a ton of sense. I love that. I still like... I still have the the site up. like I have like sort of pipe dreams of you know spinning it out into a little like ah ah a little like plug-in for Webflow or you know ah maybe a kit app or something someday. 00:04:28.10AndrewBut yeah, keep I have like ah ah recurring have like a use Todoist. And so there is a to-do in Todoist to... 00:04:38.11Andrewto like revamp chart juice and I just keep punting it out like two months every time it comes up because I'm like this is not the best use of my time right now 00:04:47.20LouisYeah, I know that feeling. I know that 00:04:49.12AndrewYeah. So what what has happened in the last like year? what's What's life like at Spark Loop? and Last we talked, you were pretty happy with the acquisition. like Things were going pretty well. And you all were really running independently, for the most part, under Kit. 00:05:06.00AndrewI imagine helping them build their kind of internal network and powering that, I would imagine. but then like really just sort of focus, you still running the business as the business is what I remember. 00:05:21.42LouisYeah, spot on. It's been a very unusual acquisition, I would say, in that we have kept running separately from Kit for the most part. We do work with them very closely behind the scenes on overlapping tech that we have. 00:05:33.29AndrewYeah. 00:05:33.63Louislike We power their paid recommendations network. They're much bigger company than we are, of course. 00:05:38.38AndrewMm-hmm. 00:05:38.68LouisBut we actually have we function as a sepa...

    1h 42m

  4. JUN 12

    Black Hat deadline madness, AI-powered content tactics, and the auth provider dilemma

    Sean survives on 1.5 hours of sleep while juggling Black Hat submissions and client launches! 😴 Andrew discovers a new MetaMonster content strategy and shows off the new grid UI that's generating page titles and scoring them for engagement. Plus: should you delegate your therapy homework to Claude (hint: no), auth provider decision paralysis, and why internal linking breaks the table concept. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:00.81SeanOh, you stopped. 00:03.40AndrewYeah, that would be the most obnoxious sound in the world. I was doing the, like, little kid exasperated sound. 00:10.45SeanYeah, yeah. What is that? What do you, what do you, how do you, like, what is the English phrase for that? 00:16.64Andrewhave no fucking clue. 00:17.80SeanIt's not like rolling your R's, but it's like blubbering. 00:21.54AndrewIt's like flapping your lips. I don't know. 00:23.97SeanI guess. 00:23.99AndrewI was doing this. Pfft. 00:26.94SeanThat's a thumbnail. 00:28.02AndrewOh, God. 00:28.21SeanThat's good. 00:28.89AndrewJesus. 00:32.72SeanThat's a good thumbnail. I'm going to have Jonah try that out. We'll see how it performs. 00:36.82AndrewTry what? 00:37.93SeanYou just blubbered. 00:40.08AndrewPlease no. 00:40.97SeanOkay. 00:43.70SeanHow you doing? how's how's How's it going? 00:48.00AndrewI'm good. I just pushed out a YouTube video, LinkedIn video for Metamonster. 00:54.94SeanNice. 00:55.68Andrewi I think this is maybe going to be a ah new tactic is I saw um like an SEO influencer type share something about how AI overviews really like structured schema. 01:12.35AndrewAnd so I was like, dope. I'm going to go write a prompt to create structured schema in the new MetaMonster UI, record myself doing it, tag this person in the post, 01:22.19SeanCool. 01:24.43SeanSick. 01:24.60Andrewand like shout them out in the video. And then did comment on my post. i don't yeah know They didn't share it or anything, but they commented on my post. 01:30.77SeanSick. 01:33.39AndrewAnd so that was kind of cool. And I'm like, I think this is probably a good tactic to follow is just like take the things that people are talking about and just record short videos showing how you can use MetaMonster to execute on them. 01:38.71SeanYeah, 100%. 01:47.17SeanYeah, all all of that makes perfect sense. that like 01:49.42AndrewYeah. 01:50.67Seanthat That feels like exactly what to do to grow Metamonster. 01:54.27AndrewYeah. Yeah. 01:55.81SeanIn fact, I would not be surprised if that was the way grew your user base to your first 500 to 1,000 this point. Yet, yet, to to ah thousand at this point so 02:06.85AndrewMaybe. i mean, no one is watching, like, our videos aren't getting any, yeah, any views. 02:09.98Seanyes yet yeah 02:12.87AndrewAnd, like, my like LinkedIn, most of the people liking my LinkedIn posts about Metamonster have been, like, my friends. So I haven't gotten, yeah. 02:22.08Seanyet yeah i think you need you need one you know ah ah you need like 02:26.86AndrewYeah, you need one to go viral-ish in the SEO world. And you need, yeah, I just need to stick with it and... 02:33.43Seanyeah plus i mean the content just gets reused so for the blog anyway or or the website anyway so yeah um i absolutely yeah but that sounds perfectly correct to me that's 02:45.76AndrewYeah. I also, um i so I recorded this one today with Screen Studio, was fun to play around with. I like some parts of it a lot. I found myself really wishing, though, that it would generate a transcript like Loom does. 02:59.46Andrewcan probably use, like, a transcript generator. I can just find something like that. But the reason is, i have gotten alex from like Lex like Lex.page set up pretty well. 03:12.97Andrewprobably do it in Claude too. But I've got it generating pretty good marketing emails based off of video transcripts. And so it's been like a really nice way to like just, you know, reuse content as I record the video. 03:30.97AndrewAnd then I upload the transcript to Lex and I have Lex generate a, generate a marketing email, I edit that email, and then I copy it over to loops and send it out to the Metamonster list. 03:47.74AndrewSo I've also been thinking about playing around with some of the automation tools to see if I could actually automate that whole flow. 03:50.05SeanCool. 03:56.02AndrewAnd it would still be, like, human in the loop because I want to edit it before it goes into loops. 04:00.35SeanYeah. 04:00.43AndrewBut, like, even if it created it as a draft in loops, I could then go to loops and edit it there. 04:04.58SeanYeah. 100%. 100. 04:08.89Seanhundred percent and 04:10.32AndrewSo... 04:12.64SeanYeah, 100%. um I always, well, okay. Sorry, 100%, you can do that. I always struggle with the idea of doing that because I feel like the time it takes to like do that is sometimes not worth the just doing it manually. I feel like I could be automating Okay, one of the things I could definitely be automating is sending you the link to this Zencaster thing. But every single every single time I do it, I'm like, yeah but it's just so easy to just make it. 04:42.92SeanAnd it's so much more work to go figure out how to do it in N8N and like increment the number by one. 04:48.73AndrewSuper fair. 04:50.98SeanWhich... 04:51.09AndrewThis is the classic problem with delegation in general, right? Whether it's automation or delegation, it's just you've got to get over that hump of it's easier to do it myself. 04:57.56SeanYeah. 05:00.78SeanYeah. Yeah. Well... Okay, well, that's that's a different way to think about it. That's kind of like death by a thousand. I'll do it myself until you can't do it yourself anymore. 05:12.62SeanI'm not going automate it. 05:12.73AndrewYeah. 05:13.46SeanIt's not going to happen. I'm just going to send you. 05:14.86AndrewYeah, I'm probably not going to automate this for a while either. 05:15.60SeanYeah. yeah cool okay uh on to another productive topic that we didn't talk about before the show but now i want to know last time we had a call or two times ago we were talking about uh that you were writing down the story of why you would be pushing something off and procrastinating 05:22.29AndrewOkay. 05:26.80AndrewYeah. 05:37.62AndrewOh, shit. You just made me realize ...

    44 min

  5. JUN 6

    When Webflow goes down

    Pre-Black Hat crunch time hits Miscreants hard as brand audits pile up and Webflow goes down for half a day. Andrew's new MetaMonster grid shows AI's bipolar nature - brilliant one moment, baffling the next. 🤖 Plus: positioning challenges, category creation in the AI era, and why Poboy the cat makes a terrible hide-and-seek player. Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:01.03SeanWhat's up? 00:02.39AndrewYour energy is different after we hit record than it was before. 00:06.79SeanI know, I gotta turn it on I gotta turn on for the podcast. 00:10.99AndrewWhat's going on, man? 00:12.23SeanI can't believe we both just went like double peace signs on an audio podcast, by the way. 00:12.40Andrewyou're a 00:17.63AndrewWe have video now, Sean. 00:19.07SeanWe do, we do, and do. We have great intros. 00:20.91AndrewIf if somebody would ever approve the latest videos to go live, then we would have even more video. 00:27.34SeanYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that sounds like That sounds like a job for someone. 00:33.60AndrewOh, hey, we have a new episode up. 00:34.09Seanand 00:36.53AndrewSomeone finally approved something. 00:36.57SeanYeah. Yeah. I'm working on it. 00:40.65AndrewAll right. 00:40.64SeanI'm doing it. It just sounds like a job for someone who doesn't have 30 hours of meetings a week right now. So... 00:46.70AndrewJesus Christ. Yeah, I'm not going to lie I've been trying to meet with you and JJ at the same time lately and trying to find overlap where neither of you has a meeting is almost impossible. 01:00.43Seanit is It is pretty much impossible. 01:00.69AndrewOh, boy, you sure you want to go out? Can we pause real quick? 01:05.95SeanYeah, sure. OK, we'll come back. No problem. 01:09.12AndrewThank you, thank you. Po'boy wanted out of the office, but also Wally, guy who works on our house, over. And so then Po'boy was immediately terrified and regretted his choice to leave the office and ran and hid under the covers of the bed. 01:26.62SeanGotcha. 01:27.14AndrewIt's pretty funny and kind of adorable. Like when our cat wants to hide from something, he just hides under the covers and it's like the most obvious lump in the entire world. So it's a completely ineffective hiding place, but he feels safe because he can't see anything. 01:42.68SeanLook, man, if I can't see you, you can't see me. That's how it works. 01:45.72AndrewHe's an adorable, dumb little f******d and I appreciate him. 01:46.52SeanThat's 01:52.19Seanthe... 01:53.48AndrewYeah. Yeah, yeah. Trying to get time on your calendar right now is tough. 01:58.27Seanyeah Yeah, same. Me too. It's like you start the day with yesterday's to-do list, you have a bunch of meetings, and you end the day with a new compounded to-do list, and then 02:11.16AndrewSo what's going on? I thought i thought you were like removing yourself from a lot of client work. And yeah, what are all these meetings? 02:18.30Seanah so i am ish but i also am not because it's pre-blackhat crunch time and i really have like i think i need to be there like to help you just get things across the finish line we launched a site last week we just launched a site that today we launched a site like the week before we're another monthly sprint to launch like two more sites 02:45.30SeanYeah. Plus every single client wants a brand audit because, you know, they work with us at the early stage. We built, we built them a brand. It works really well for the first phase and they all reach a point where like they need to advance it, which is fine. It's normal. It happens with every single client. They just all consolidated onto the same last couple of weeks. 03:07.59AndrewInteresting. 03:07.84SeanSo 03:08.03AndrewSo you're actually doing a brand audit of your own branding work? 03:11.43Seanyes. 03:12.20AndrewHuh. That's kind of cool. 03:13.24SeanYes. Yeah. Well, it's because like... 03:18.53AndrewSort of seems like a racket, but... 03:22.74SeanFair. Fair. I mean, it's not like we're charging for them. So it's part of the retainer. 03:26.12AndrewWait, why are you not charging for them? 03:27.78SeanIt's part of the retainer. It's part of... 03:29.03AndrewOh, okay, okay, okay, okay. 03:29.02SeanIt's, its you know... 03:30.39Andrewokay 03:30.35SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. 03:30.90AndrewYeah, yeah, yeah. 03:32.56SeanIt's like it's time to evolve. 03:33.04AndrewYou're charging for them, but you're not charging separately for them. 03:36.84SeanYeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. 03:37.60AndrewOkay. Okay. 03:38.75SeanSo it's like half a racket. No, it's, it's ah a you know, when you are in early stage company, you are asking for very specific things to get you up and running, right? 03:48.30AndrewYeah. 03:49.09Seanand And over, you know, a year or so as you grow, like, lore gets built about your company more meaning. 03:56.03AndrewHmm. 03:56.18SeanYour product changes, your content strategy changes, and all this sort of stuff. And, like, it at some point it evolves past that. what the branding that we did in the beginning can support and honestly what the branding they paid for can support, which is totally fine because it's like, you know, there's no reason that we start off and you pay us a bunch of money to do all this thinking about your brand for you to like possibly never even use it because you are still in that PMF stage, like finding PMF stage. 04:09.70AndrewMm-hmm. 04:25.49SeanBut yeah, a bunch of brand and and also competitors exist and the competitors copy you and it's like, and now, you know, At this point, we should just build invoices to some security companies because every time we do something, shows up on their site. 04:38.04SeanI'm just like, dude. 04:38.96AndrewDang. Shots fired. 04:41.55SeanYeah, yeah, yeah. 04:42.03AndrewYou to call names? 04:43.42SeanNo, absolutely not. No, security companies, we love you all oh equally. and But if you would like someone to just do, if you like work from the source, you might just, you know, hit us up. 04:54.89AndrewWe love the ones that pay us money more. I think that's fair to say. 04:58.44SeanYeah, that's fair. That's fair. We do love the ones that pay us money more. 05:03.82AndrewYou can buy our love. 05:03.86SeanYeah. 05:04.68AndrewYeah. 05:05.48

    48 min

  6. JUN 3

    Chasing taxis in the Canadian wilderness

    Fresh from a techno festival, Andrew's planning an escape to Lion's Head National Park in Canada while working through therapy insights about procrastination. 🏕️ Plus he's thinking about how to reposition MetaMonster away from tools that might be seen as cheap. Meanwhile Sean's juggling multiple client launches and working on mapping the security operations of a bank to help other people on the Miscreants team understand what it's like to work in a security org. Also: Ferrari shots, cognitive distortions, and landing new clients! Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:01.05Andrewnot much got a got a new haircut went to a rave this weekend not really a rave the movement festival the like big techno festival that happens in detroit every year was this weekend so uh we last year went for the first time got a one day ticket one day is all my old man old man ass can handle so 00:04.76SeanYeah, what's fresh? How was that? Who did you see? 00:14.70SeanCool. 00:25.98SeanAre you a techno guy? Are you? 00:27.81AndrewNo, not really. I like house better than techno, but Detroit is the birthplace of techno. 00:28.71SeanOh, okay. Gotcha. I 00:34.22AndrewSo yeah. 00:35.31Seani didn't know that. And yeah also the birthplace of Eminem. 00:38.87AndrewAnd i'm a I'm a Detroit guy. So big Detroit guy. 00:40.85SeanYeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 00:44.76AndrewYeah, it was fun. 00:45.52SeanYeah. 00:46.53AndrewI could not tell you who we saw. I have no f*****g clue what any of their names were. 00:50.17SeanOkay. 00:51.79Andrewi was just there vibing and dancing. 00:54.88SeanCool. you Did you partake like many techno folks tend to? 00:59.05AndrewNot this year. No. 01:00.38SeanI see. I see. 01:01.08AndrewNah, we were just... I had... I, you know, sipped on a few seltzers. Had a... 01:06.13SeanNice. 01:07.04AndrewHad a Ferrari shot before we left. 01:09.49SeanWhat is a Ferrari shot? 01:10.94AndrewA Ferrari shot is equal parts for Nett and Campari. For... Ari. 01:16.49SeanCool. like 01:17.37AndrewYeah. It's like... 01:20.58SeanDo you like Frenet? 01:20.71Andrewi feel... I don't know. 01:21.50SeanAre you a Frenet person? 01:24.71Andrewi 01:25.07SeanOh. Interesting. 01:25.68AndrewI want to be a Furnette person. i love Amari. And my cocktail nerd friends generally like Furnette. And it's a Furnette shot is called a bartender's handshake because it's apparently a big like industry thing where you're like, you know, start, start your shift or something with a shot of Furnette. 01:35.35SeanInteresting. 01:42.16SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 01:46.36AndrewAnd so I feel like, like that just sounds so cool. Like a bartender's handshake. Like that sounds so cool. And like, I'm never going to be a real bartender, but I can at least learn to like for net. 01:57.22AndrewI like it better. 01:57.21SeanOh, 01:59.49Andrewit it just, it can overpower things and tastes like toothpaste. So I like, I prefer it with other things. I really want to try the I found out the most popular cocktail in like Argentina is a for net and Coke. 02:17.32Seanoh interesting. 02:18.68AndrewSo yeah, it sounds really weird. 02:18.85SeanNow want 02:21.05AndrewI want to try it. 02:22.31Seanyeah i hear uh i hear fernet was like popular in sf for a bit it's a big sf people drink yeah yeah i don't mind it it's not bad yeah i would like to try fernet and diet coke that feels yeah well fernet diet coke break with the the cigarette 02:26.88AndrewI can see that. It seems like a SF hipster thing. 02:39.81AndrewYeah. Yeah. 02:44.25AndrewKind of like a Calimocho. Have you ever heard of that? 02:48.67SeanNo, no, you know more about cocktails than I do. 02:49.83AndrewCalimocho is like the... My friends in Spain told me it's like kind of a college kid drink, but it's red wine and Coke. 03:02.87SeanYou know what's really good that people are going to think is this guy? Red wine and Sprite. 03:07.24AndrewOh, yeah, yeah. They call that Tinto de Verano. Yeah. 03:09.90SeanOh, no, none of my ideas are original. 03:11.03AndrewYeah. 03:12.70SeanI see. 03:12.87AndrewYeah, red wine and either like some sort of citrus soda. 03:13.06SeanOkay. 03:16.34AndrewSo often it's like a sparkling lemonade or a Sprite or something like that. 03:17.18SeanHmm. 03:21.28AndrewIt's kind of like, you know, poor man's sangria. If you don't have like fruit and don't want to do a whole like put all the work into making a sangria, just have a Tinto de Verano. 03:25.45SeanYeah. 03:32.24SeanYeah. Nice. 03:34.34AndrewWe drank a bunch of them on the Camino. 03:34.38SeanCool. Speaking of the Camino, you're going on your next trip. 03:41.14Andrewyeah uh if i can get this f*****g newsletter out then i will be leaving to go up to canada for a three-day backpacking trip with maddie at lion's head national park it looks beautiful it's like cliffs that are stick out it's a peninsula that sticks out into lake huron these like big cliffs and crystal clear water 03:50.95SeanNice. 03:53.69SeanCool. Cool, cool. 04:05.29AndrewBut the high is like 55 and it's supposed to be cloudy and like maybe rain a little bit. So little nervous, but really excited to be getting on trail. 04:10.79SeanOkay. 04:16.66AndrewI am like having a little bit of tech overload and 04:21.55SeanYeah, it was just i I was just saying to JJ other day that like Andrew's going to go on a trip any one of these days. like It's been a while. He hasn't hasn't left to to go touch grass in a minute. 04:34.22SeanYeah. 04:35.01Andrewyeah i've been craving it i was gonna try while i was uh in between miscreants projects i was gonna just take off in the middle of the week one week but the weather just wasn't cooperating the trail i wanted to do the two times that i looked to like get ready to go it was gonna be rainy the whole time and i was like fuck that rainy and cold so 04:45.46SeanNice. 04:54.89SeanNice. Nice. Well, glad you glad you get to do it now. 05:00.01AndrewYeah. One of my goals is five backpacking trips this year. 05:00.58Seanhope it's 05:03.05AndrewSo this is number one and we'll see if I can get all five. 05:04.06Seancool. OK. 05:09.80Se...

    48 min

  7. MAY 22

    Pool tables, positioning, and people ops

    Andrew and Sean talk about hiring tools, positioning MetaMonster, and Andrew's struggles to increase his publishing velocity. Meanwhile, Sean is slammed with inbound after RSA, is putting project management systems in place for Margins, and just got a pool table!  Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/Apply to Miscreants: https://tally.so/r/nrWOlNFor more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:01.27SeanWhat's up? 00:02.35AndrewNot much, just digging through job applications for this senior product designer role. 00:07.89SeanYeah. Yeah. 00:09.34Andrewit 00:09.45SeanHow's that going? Do you like it? 00:10.30AndrewIt really makes me want to build an ATS. 00:12.75SeanYeah. 00:14.07Andrewi I looked at Home Run again, and 00:15.97SeanUh-huh. 00:20.47Andrewit's gone up to, like, their base price starts at, I think, $90 a month or something like that. and JJ has essentially built a, an Excel Google sheets, ATS, uh, which is solid. 00:34.46AndrewIt's, it's not bad at all. 00:34.71SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 00:36.55AndrewI think the email automation stuff she's been trying to do isn't working yet. then I have spent a chunk of today trying to figure out how to run a script inside of Google sheets that'll, 00:50.78Andrewintegrate with an AI detection API because so many of these applications are so clearly just copy and pasted from ChatGPT and not actual applications. 01:00.49SeanI see. I see. 01:02.97AndrewYeah. 01:03.27SeanYou can use GPT for sheets. 01:03.42AndrewWhich 01:06.08SeanAnd then... 01:07.03Andrewdo you think how how good is ChatGPT at detecting itself? 01:12.38SeanI think if you give it a rubric, it it's good. Because, like... 01:15.84AndrewI don't know if I know enough to give it a good rubric. 01:18.86Seancan give you my, like... You know, it's not a rubric. It's just like, hey, generate this blog post. Don't use these words. Don't use this phrasing. Don't... 01:27.51AndrewYeah, and you could try to kind of reverse that rubric. 01:30.27SeanYeah, yeah. 01:30.85AndrewYeah. 01:31.58SeanGod, that's funny. 01:33.39AndrewYeah. And, like, there's there's, like, a small part of me that is, like, well, you know, I don't... 01:35.17SeanYeah. 01:42.50AndrewI don't have a problem with you using ChatGPT to help you write your application. But if you're clearly just like, if it's 100% copy and pasted from ChatGPT, then I have no way of knowing if it's legit information or not, or if you're just completely bullshitting. 01:53.80SeanYeah. 01:58.15AndrewLike, I got several answers to the same question that seemed almost identical. 01:58.74SeanYeah. 02:04.19AndrewAnd I was like, hmm, okay, so this isn't a real life experience you had then probably. 02:08.60SeanYeah, I bet. That's so funny. I bet there's like apps now also like apply with AI like one click and then it just generates that stuff. 02:16.65AndrewOh, I'm sure there are. yeah Yeah, so I mean, I think part of it is... 02:20.17SeanHow would you build an ATS differently? Let's build a bit sauce. 02:27.31AndrewLike, I think it's an area where I would try to compete on price because ATS systems tend to be pretty fucking expensive. And so I think if you tried to be a fairly minimal, simple version that was at more of an entry level price, I think that's like step one. 02:43.52AndrewNow, the s****y part is to build even a simple ATS. You're basically building a CRM, an email marketing system, and a form builder all in one. and like kind of a website builder too. 02:54.26SeanYeah. Yeah. 02:56.31AndrewSo it's it's not a simple product. 02:59.09SeanHmm. 02:59.43AndrewSo I totally understand why they're expensive. But I still think ah ah most of that is sunk cost, not like ongoing cost. 03:10.24SeanYeah. Definitely 03:10.80AndrewI don't think they're that expensive to operate. Just you know there's a high barrier to entry to build you the base features you need. 03:14.24Seannot. 03:20.98SeanHmm. 03:22.20AndrewSo I think I'd do some of that. i think I would also, think it could be really interesting. Like I've always been interested in salary transparency and stuff like that. 03:31.98AndrewSo I think it could be interesting to try to do some like, try to talk people into doing some data sharing around salaries and stuff like that. 03:40.80SeanMm-hmm. 03:41.87Andrewon both sides of the equation. i think it would be cool to build in, know, some, I remember when we, I know, 03:52.68Andrewwhen we were trying to care about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and like learn about it, part of what people said you should do is like serve like conduct anonymous surveys to determine you know try to determine if there's what bias there is in your application process and like you know some people say you should hide names from applications and stuff like that and i yeah that kind of stuff 04:25.09SeanYou could do a lessannoyingATS.com. Yeah. 04:27.83AndrewYeah, like I think, and that kind of stuff was often hidden behind like really high enterprise prices. 04:28.44Seancome 04:33.54AndrewAnd so just making that stuff more widely available, offering good rubrics, like good default rubrics for like, here are good application questions. Like here's some templates you can choose from and here's a good rubric to like help you reduce bias in your process and doing some different stuff like that. 04:49.85Seanyeah 04:51.78Andrewthen just trying to make it balance that with also making it reasonably quick to eliminate people who clearly aren't a good fit and then like narrow your list down because those are the two kind of competing priorities for good hiring managers. is like On the one hand, you have a massive stack of applications to get through normally. 05:11.51AndrewAnd on the other hand, you want to be respectful of people and like you you want to get through those in a reasonable amount of time while also giving people their due. 05:15.57SeanMm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 05:21.64AndrewAnd so trying to walk that balance with thoughtful tools. 05:21.73Seanand 05:24.68Seanyeah maybe like hard filters and soft filters as you're going through applicants it'd be cool like you i mean if it's cheaper it's better for smb and then the templates make a lot of sense because i mean hiring is hard your first hundred times i'm pretty sure especially because there's differ...

    54 min

  8. MAY 15

    Miscreants is growing fast! And Andrew is rebuilding MetaMonster

    Whoops! Our last recording got botched halfway through and only Andrew's audio was saved. So we recapped what we talked about in the last podcast and got into some new stuff in today's episode.  Sean is back from his busiest RSA yet and growing Miscreants like crazy! In fact, they're growing so fast that Andrew is hiring a full-time product designer to join the Miscreants team. Meanwhile Andrew is also rebuilding MetaMonster from the ground up (well, Austin is) and thinking about how to build products with AI at the core instead of just tacking it on. The guys talk about the Vercel AI SDK, the value of time in market when growing an agency, Sean's progress on his new Margins product, and more.  Links: Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskinsAndrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsunMiscreants: http://miscreants.com/Margins: http://margins.so/Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/. Transcript:00:00:01.81AndrewYo, so funny reason that I was late to this podcast recording. I was distracted trying to write a job description for the miscreants product designer role that we're trying to fill. 00:00:13.82Seanyeah. 00:00:17.66SeanThat's true. You want to write the other ones, by the way? trying to hire like three more roles at this point. Yeah. 00:00:24.94AndrewThat's nuts, man. Hey, actually, i was going to put in here. 00:00:26.23SeanI'm 00:00:28.46AndrewHow many people have you hired in the last year? 00:00:31.76SeanI don't f*****g know. I don't know, man. I can't. 00:00:34.90AndrewIf you had to guess, like, give me give me a number. 00:00:37.42SeanIn the past year, 00:00:41.08Seanfive, six. 00:00:42.96AndrewI guess six. So I'm just going to leave it as six. 00:00:44.50SeanYeah. Okay. to fire Yeah, we've hired so many full-time. 00:00:50.71AndrewOr should I say, like, we've grown the team by 50% or something like that? 00:00:55.02SeanSure. Yeah, we've grown the team by 50%. It sounds way better. 00:00:58.97AndrewYeah. 00:00:58.92SeanWe've doubled in size. we're about to double the fucking team again at this point i think i like said on a call that jj heard where i was like yeah like we're trying to be like you know 25 30 people by the end of the year and she so yeah that was her reaction don't know 00:01:10.57AndrewYeah. 00:01:15.03AndrewI'm sorry. What? 00:01:19.88AndrewI wonder why. i wonder why your COO would be is shocked to hear you want to triple it in size by the end of the year. 00:01:27.88SeanYeah, yeah, but this was, you know, it's not triple in size. It's six times in size because just kind of said it 00:01:36.66Seanlast year. ah home or or like the beginning. I think I said in the beginning of the year. i mean, I don't know. Inbound has been good. Inbound has continued to be really good. 00:01:47.89SeanRSA was really good. So it just has kind of kept growing. and It was i was kind of said not in jest, but in hyperbole. 00:01:59.66SeanIt was hyperbolic. I feel a little less hyperbolic at the moment. 00:02:00.98AndrewYeah. I will say... 00:02:06.94AndrewI will say always thought that like 20 to 30 people would be kind of the perfect size for an agency because at least for us, it was big enough that we could have enough clients to that. 00:02:14.82SeanMm-hmm. 00:02:22.91AndrewLike if we lost a client or two, it wouldn't be like 20% of our revenue, 30% of our revenue. 00:02:27.42SeanYep. 00:02:28.04AndrewLike it would be a smaller chunk. It would be, 00:02:30.23SeanYeah. 00:02:30.70AndrewYou know, we could have a good manageable number of clients. It was still small enough that you wouldn't have a whole lot of process or red tape. It would still be pretty flexible, pretty collaborative. 00:02:40.12SeanYeah. 00:02:41.74Andrewand And also big enough that, like, if you lose an employee, like if ah if an employee takes a new job, you weren't losing, like, you know, when we sold Crit, we were six full-time people, 10 including part-time. 00:02:47.89SeanMm-hmm. 00:02:53.71AndrewAnd so if we lost one person, like one full-time person, that was, you know, 00:02:54.21SeanMm-hmm. 00:02:58.47SeanIt hurts. 00:02:59.71Andrew20% of our full-time workforce. 00:03:01.87SeanYeah. 00:03:03.66AndrewThat's brutal. 00:03:05.33SeanYeah. 00:03:06.87AndrewSo I do think that's a good size. Now, would you want to stop there? Because you are more ambitious than I am, probably. 00:03:14.82SeanI am i am greed personified. Yeah. I mean, when when the years started, i like one of the exercises I did with JJ was that we sort of mapped out what a 20-5 to 30-person agency would look like. 00:03:30.21AndrewYeah, I remember this. 00:03:30.53Seanyou know with yeah yeah and Yeah, I think maybe I showed you as well that org chart. 00:03:34.35AndrewYeah. 00:03:36.49SeanI mean, I think agency-wise, I'd probably stop there. I'm saying probably, i don't know, give it like six more months, I'll let you know. 00:03:46.79SeanI can't, i think i i I think I can't fathom like more. 00:03:51.38AndrewRunning a 50-person agency or something. 00:03:53.54SeanYeah, yeah, like that, like I can, I think at that point it's just, like, I 00:03:54.31AndrewYeah. 00:04:01.50Seani think, I mean the market is huge for sure. 00:04:06.89SeanI think I would just, I think my shiny objectpreneurism would just want to do other, like even in that 30, right? There was still like two people were doing merch. other There was like a developer on a product and I think those things would grow. 00:04:19.97SeanI think mysteries as a whole, I can see becoming larger and larger, but like pure client services, I don't know. I think it's, I think quality of work still matters and I still worry about getting too large in that way. 00:04:31.97AndrewIt's definitely like possible to scale while maintaining quality, but it is f*****g hard. 00:04:36.95SeanYeah, I mean, we've won deals because people are unhappy with killer agencies because ultimately, you're large, even now, can't even now we can't like even now when a creator comes to us and they're like hey i only have like this much money to do it like like i have three thousand dollars to do something right it's like dude we can't like we can't take that but like at this point we'd rather just do it for you as a like here's a free creator program and like you know ultimately like you have to know that you're not going to get like 00:04:55.63AndrewMm-hmm. 00:05:11.23Seancreative director bends time on every single part of it, you're gonna get, it's gonna be a training project for ah junior. It's still gonna be go...

    1h 4m
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About

Two agency owners and friends talk about cybersecurity, design, and the continuous small efforts it takes to build a business.

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  • Creator
    Sean Sun and Andrew Askins
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2025
  • Episodes
    64
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Sean Sun and Andrew Askins