Sustain What?

Andy @Revkin
Sustain What?

Sustain What? is a series of conversations, seeking solutions where complexity and consequence collide on the sustainability frontier. This program contains audio highlights from hundreds of video webcasts hosted by Andy Revkin. Revkin believes sustainability has no meaning on its own. The first step toward success is to ask: Sustain what? How? And for whom? revkin.substack.com

  1. 5 HR. AGO

    Essential Insights from a Top Climate Researcher Who Warns Against "Climatism"

    I hope you heard (or now watch) my 2021 conversation with the Cambridge University climate researcher Mike Hulme and science and propaganda historian Naomi Oreskes on trust and mistrust in climate science. The same goes for our 2023 conversation about his latest book, Climate Change Isn’t Everything, which describes what he calls “climatism” - a tendency in climate-policy discussions to put CO2 reduction in the foreground no matter what the issue is. I’ve loaded it above and here we are on YouTube: If you really want to dive in, explore my New York Times articles drawing on his insights as far back as 2007. But I also hope you’ll read this recent reflective essay he posted on his website - reposted here with permission. Hulme describes lessons that emerged through 40 years of climate scholarship and the evolution, and sometimes devolution, of public debate and related policies. I agree wholeheartedly with much of his reasoning. Maybe it’s because we’ve both been at this long enough to see patterns others miss in the rush to the new, and long enough to recognize when our initial internal narratives around climate change and energy transitions no longer match the evidence. Geopolitics, History and Climate Change: A Personal View by Mike Hulme “To think that we can draw some useful analogies from history dramatically underestimates the novelty and scale of the climate challenge.”[2] “In the contest between geopolitics and sustainable climate policies, the former takes precedence.”[3] Starting in the early 1980s, I have spent my entire professional life studying climate change, as well as teaching, writing and speaking about it in universities, conferences, and public forums around the world—in 43 countries at the latest count. With such a professional and personal investment in the idea of climate change, it is not surprising that for a long period I uncritically absorbed the notion that climate change represented the pre-eminent challenge facing humanity in the twenty-first century. Since first immersing myself in the topic in the 1980s, and subsequently being part of the scientific and public story of climate change in the 1990s and 2000s[4], I was easily convinced that the growing human influence on the world’s climate would be a reality that all nations would increasingly need to confront, a reality to which their interests would necessarily be subservient and that would be decisive for shaping their development pathways. For more than half of these 40 or so years, it seemed to me self-evident that relations between nations would forcibly be re-shaped by the exigencies of a changing climate. But now, in the mid-2020s, I can see that I got this the wrong way round. And I can also see why this was so. Rather than geopolitics having to bend to the realities of a changing climate, the opposite has happened. The unyielding force of political realism—the pursuit of the changing and unpredictable interests of nations and great powers—means that the framing, significance, and responses to climate change need continually to adapt to shifting geopolitical realities. Except that too often they haven’t. Whilst the world’s climate has undoubtedly changed over these 40 years, the geopolitics, demography, and culture of the world has changed even more.[5] Too often the language, rhetoric, and campaigning around climate change remains wedded to a world that no longer exists. *** The crucial period which shaped my own (mis-)reading of the prospective power and salience of climate change in the twenty-first century—and many other people’s mis-reading; I was not alone in this—was the ten years between 1985 and 1995, now more than a third of a century ago. This period marked the apogee of optimistic thinking about “a new world order”—in the words of George Bush senior—and about “the end of history”—in the words of Francis Fukuyama. It was marked by the rise of market globalization, the triumph of liberal democracy over state-sponsored communism, and the blithe promise of a world energy transition. In short, this optimism was fueled by the rise of globalism; thinking strategically about climate change was caught-up in this zeitgeist. It was during these ten years that the dominant public narrative of climate change took shape, what Dan Sarewitz later called “the plan”.[6] “The plan”, according to Sarewitz, had two components: one, that scientific knowledge about climate change would lead to action by compelling a convergence of people’s worldviews around the need to take action; and, two, that this convergence of understanding would translate into a consequent convergence around what needs to be done. “The plan” appealed and gained pre-eminence among those who, like me, accepted Fukuyama’s unidirectional progressive view of history. In his famous 1989 essay, Fukuyama proposed that the post-Cold War era would see the replacement of “worldwide ideological struggle” with “the endless solving of technical problems, environmental concerns, and the satisfaction of sophisticated consumer demands.”[7] Climate change seemed to be ripe for such technological solutionism; and many believed it. I did too. During those ten years, and leaking (just) into the twenty-first century, western values were casually presumed to be universal. And it was (just about) possible to imagine that the new harmony of nations might unite behind the primacy of America’s ‘benign’ world leadership. Forty years of Cold War had ended, 80 years of ideological struggle between liberal democracy and communism were over. It was, according to Fukuyama, “the end point of mankind’s ideological evolution and the universalization of Western liberal democracy as the final form of human government.”[8] In similar vein, Beck’s “cosmopolitan manifesto” was published in 1998, inserting ideas about world citizenship and ethical globalization firmly into the western mind.[9] Yet this mood of optimistic globalism was dangerous. Writing retrospectively in 2023 about the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, the political historian Timothy Garton-Ash explains the danger: “…deep down we somehow thought – or more accurately, felt – that we knew which way history was going. This is always a mistake and one that historians should be the last people on earth to make.”[10] Around this time, the primacy of western science was reflected in the forging of the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). Created by the UN in 1988, and first reporting in 1990, the IPCC gave the imprimatur of governmental backing to universal climate scientific knowledge as an authoritative guide to climate policy. The UN’s Framework Convention on Climate Change was negotiated in 1992, and ratified in 1995. Subsequent annual Conferences of the Parties to the Convention would hammer out the new institutions, policies and measures around which the world would unite to tame the climate change threat. It was an echo of how scientists had discovered the ozone hole in 1985 and how negotiators had crafted the 1987 Montreal Protocol, and its subsequent amendments, to repair the damage. Climate science’s ascendant power was eventually to lead to the IPCC receiving a joint share of the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize. The new global science of climate change seemed to reign supreme. Yet by 2007, the illusion under which I had been working—that geopolitics would bend to the force of concern over climate change—was already ending. The Kyoto Protocol, signed in 1997, ratified in 2004, had yielded next to nothing in terms of emissions reductions. Also running out of steam was Tony Blair’s campaign of international climate diplomacy conducted during the years 2003-2005, a self-conscious attempt to harness the moral high ground following the geopolitical disaster of the British Government’s support for the 2003 Iraq war. More significantly, the Global Financial Crisis of 2008 was the prelude to this disillusionment, and the failure of the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade Bill to pass in the US Senate in the summer of 2009 the main act. And the denouement came in December 2009 at COP15, billed as ‘the most important meeting in human history’. During a few days in a wintery Copenhagen, China’s growing political and economic muscle was firmly exercised, the impotence of the EU’s climate diplomacy revealed, and the limits of late twentieth century internationalism exposed. The curtain finally came down on Sarewitz’s so-called “plan” during the (northern) 2009/10 winter of climate discontent. In November 2009, the western world was blind-sided by the Climategate controversy over leaked emails between corresponding scientists, and in the early months of 2010 its confidence in climate science further undermined by several challenges to the IPCC’s trust and credibility. Meanwhile, the important geopolitical action was taking place elsewhere. While we weren’t watching, something else was afoot at the turn of this decade. The forces of deglobalization were gathering, coinciding with climate’s ‘cultural turn’—the belated recognition that science is not enough to drive change, that science is never enough[11]—and the beginning of the west’s cultural solipsism and fragmentation. The (short-lived) Arab Spring of 2011 culminated in the decade-long Syrian Civil War and fractious ethnic nationalisms gathered pace, first in Russia and then in the USA, Brazil and parts of eastern Europe. And all the while, China’s belt-and-road initiative was beginning to tighten. So how did the framing and campaigning around climate change respond in the early-mid-2010s to these compounding geopolitical trends? By doubling down on what had worked before. In other words, it responded by offering new science, more science, more scary science. Science was used to reframe what climate change seemed to demand of the wor

    58 min
  2. 2 DAYS AGO

    With U.S. Aid for Lifesaving Overseas Programs Still a Tangle, "People are Dying"

    Here's today’s Sustain What discussion with two journalists from Global Press, an international newsroom supporting female reporters in the world’s most troubled regions. Global Press immediately began widespread reporting on the realtime impacts of the initial USAID freeze and persistent chaos around money flowing to public health and other vital programs from Nepal to Uganda. (I apologize for some audio echo but you can scan the rough transcript as well.) The editor-in-chief, Krista Karch, and Nakisanze Segawa, reporter-in-residence in Kampala, Uganda, offered disturbing descriptions of specific perils created by the Trump administration’s aggressive moves. “People are dying” As Karch says, “The big thing is that people are dying. People are dying. You cannot emphasize that any more.” And of course please read Global Press’s reporting. Here are some of the latest dispatches: * Zimbabwe Braces for HIV Resurgence as US Aid Evaporates - Sex workers are the first to feel the effects, as mobile health clinics that offered condoms and preventative treatments disappear. * The Trump Administration Is Gutting USAID. Nepali Infants Will Starve, Officials Warn - The US government's abrupt stop-work order halts a 72-million-dollar project designed to end malnutrition. It’s worth noting that much of the Global Press output is published in local languages as well, as here in नेपाली. * Without USAID Support, Refugees in Uganda Lose Food, Job Training - Uganda hosts 1.8 million refugees and asylum-seekers, the largest number of any African country. But without US funding, basic services like food distribution are likely to end. * Ebola Breaks Out in Uganda as US Halts Foreign Aid - At least one person has died in the country's latest outbreak. US aid has been key to containing previous outbreaks. How will Uganda fare without it? Some critical comments and questions came in during the live show complaining that African nations should be more self sufficient and wean themselves from colonial support systems. Karch and Segawa said Global Press has stories in the works on that issue, which can also be seen percolating on social media in Uganada. Finally we discussed the unique training and support system Global Press provides to empower and protect female journalists amid challenges that are intense even in the world’s wealthiest countries. Segawa said: Knowing Global Press has my back…gives me the courage to go to places that would rather be deemed dangerous for a female journalist to go to and talk to people and see what's happening and witness events and report about that. Here’s yesterday’s “curtain raiser” post with more links and details: To sustain Sustain What, consider becoming a paid subscriber, which keeps this content open for those who can’t afford to pay. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit revkin.substack.com/subscribe

    42 min
  3. 4 DAYS AGO

    Amid the Worst Surge Toward Autocracy in a Century, Here's How U-Turns Toward Democracy Can Happen

    Here’s the podcast version of my Sustain What conversation with three authors of a sobering, and yet slightly hopeful, paper identifying a rising number of autocracies that are followed by a sharp social and political u-turn to democratization. A rough dynamic transcript is here. The paper is here: The hopeful part of the open-access study is this: The analysis presents a systematic empirical overview of patterns and developments of U-Turns [from autocracy toward democracy between 1900 and 2023]. A key finding is that 52% of all autocratization episodes become U-Turns, which increases to 73% when focusing on the last 30 years. The vast majority of U-Turns (90%) lead to restored or even improved levels of democracy. But that has to be set against the trends tracked in the sobering annual reports of the V-Dem Institute (V-Dem stands for Varieties of Democracy), where four of the five study authors work. In our conversation, Staffan Lindberg, the Institute’s founding director, put it this way. Listen to him or read the statement below: This is worse than in the 1930s moving into World War II. The number of countries, 42, at the same time moving back on democracy is higher than ever before. The share of the number of countries in the world is also higher than before. The share of the world population living in countries moving back on democracy is greater than ever before. It's unprecedented the strength of this wave of autocratization. Insert 2/11/2025 - I’ve uploaded V-Dem’s brief summarizing the new study here: Here are the core conclusions: • Contemporary democracies are fairly resilient to the onset of autocratization: Since 1994, 54% have not experienced backsliding. Yet, democracies rarely survive if autocratization sets in [for more than a decade].• Breakdown does not prevent a return of democracy: Roughly 50% recover shortly after a democratic breakdown in a U-turn episode.• [Early], active, stiff, and coordinated resistance against autocratization from pro-democracy actors and institutions is key to making a U-turn. Please explore V-Dem Institute’s annual reports and its graphing tool, which provides a dynamic view of country-by-country scoring on a variety of democracy “vital signs.” Here’s the United States, and you can see the effect of Trump’s first term on the indicators: We discuss the underlying data, the analysis on u-turns toward democracy following autocratic surges, and - most important - the societal and governmental capacities that seem essential to foster such reversals. Breaking norms Lindberg explains how the simplicity and vagueness of the United States Constitution is both the source of the adaptability and resilience of American democracy but also a source of deep vulnerability facing extreme disruption. The country runs on norms as much as hard-edged rules, he says. And when a figure like Trump comes in, deadset on pushing norms to the breaking point, that spells trouble: It's very easy to tear down democracy in the U .S. if the elites want to do it. There's a famous political scientist, Giovanni Sartori, who was at Columbia University for many, many years. He said once that the American democracy works not thanks to, but despite, the American Constitution. That's almost swearing in church in the U .S., right? And he said it works only as long as the Americans wanted to work. So that in these times, I think, that’s a critical aspect of democracy in the U .S. that one needs to keep thinking about. Fabio Angiolillo, another author, explains how public resistance, including by people in key professional sectors like journalism, is essential, as is overcoming naive discounting of the risks of autocracy in countries that haven’t experienced it: There’s much, much more and I hope you take time to listen. And do share this post. There are more links and other resources in the “curtain raiser” post I published on Sunday: Independent insights Vanessa Williamson, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, wrote an excellent three-part brief on the erosion of American democracy in 2023. Part 3 was Democratic erosion: The role of executive aggrandizement. Key points: * Even a legitimately elected leader can undermine democracy if they consolidate power or use government resources to debilitate their political opposition. * Election integrity is threatened if incumbents can weaponize the provision of government services or government jobs for partisan ends. * Given the dysfunction in Congress and the current ideological makeup of the courts, there are reasons to worry about executive aggrandizement in the United States. Sustain What is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit revkin.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 3m
  4. FEB 7

    Music for Trump Time - 🎶 Save Dreams for Sleeping, It's Time to Get Real

    Here’s a fresh tune for these times from my songwriting side, which has been energized since I signed on to a two-decade-old annual project called February Album Writing Month (FAWM.org). There’s more below about this remarkable effort - aimed at getting participants to write 14 songs in 28 days (yes, FOURTEEN!) - including a video explainer by its founder, Burr Settles, a machine learning researcher focused on language learning at DuoLingo and, of course, on music. I hope to interview him soon. My new song, Save Dreams for Sleeping, is still in beta mode. I’ve been trying various chord and melody approaches and instruments. But given what’s going on in the early weeks of the Trump Vance Musk administration I don’t want to hold off. Below you can listen to another topical song by me and find links to some other off-the-news songs from #FAWM2025 and my favorite #fastfolk musician, Jesse Welles. Save Dreams for Sleeping © 2025, Andy Revkin, Written Feb. 4, 2025 We all hold a dream somewhere deep in our minds, Where everything’s fair and everyone’s kind. Flowers all blooming, no smoke in the skies. No wars in the headlines, no tears in your eyes. But save dreams for sleeping. It’s time to get real. Hard workers are suffering while billionaires steal. Young women in trouble can’t find caring hands. House builders born elsewhere get bundled in vans. I’m not saying it’s easy. All good things take time. Those trying to divide us are good at their crimes. But if we stop dreaming, dive into the storm. A more perfect union will start being born. Our country needs mending, but how to begin? With problems so tangled, no start and no end? Reach out to a stranger. Get out of your pack. Find what you agree on and walk that one track. The trust that you build - day by day, two by two - Will carry us further than fighting will do. I’m not saying it’s easy. All good things take time. Those trying to divide us are good at their crime. But if we stop dreaming, dive into the storm A more perfect union will start being born. Let me know what you think! Here’s the initial rough take from February 4. Good news from 2044? Here’s the other new tune from me, spurred by a FAWM prompt to write a song about a time macine. I travel to the presidential election year of 2044 and muse on what it might be like of Sasha Obama and, yes, Barron Trump, were the candidates. (I doubt either will run but 2044 is the first year Barron Trump would be eligible.) It’s called “Good News from 2044?” and is also still a work in progress, as you can clearly hear! The lyrics etc. are here. This is a 60-second snippet. The full song is on YouTube. The world needs more “Fast Folk” Most of my songs are not straight off the news. I am not remotely like the amazing songwriting machine Jesse Welles, who seems to pump out several topical tunes a week and has hand built a significant following. But songwriting, for me, is an extension of my wider philosophy of using all possible skills and media when pursuing some goal. Given the state of the world, it’s been gratifying to get into this mode, which I call “fast folk,” drawing on a movement that began in and around New York City (and a couple other cities) from the early 1980s into the early 2000s. I see Welles as reviving this form, as I noted around the election. In 1999, I wrote a New York Times feature about the Fast Folk movement centered on a core leader, Jack Hardy. Here’s my gift paywall-free link. ''The whole idea was to do it fast,'' Hardy explained to me. ''You could hear a song at an open mic or songwriters' meeting and two weeks later it was being played on the radio in Philadelphia or Chicago. It was urgent, exciting. It was in your face.'' Writers met each week in Hardy’s Greenwich Village walkup to test drive their latest compositions for peers. It was far more an acid bath than a soothing circle. Some heralded alumni include Suzanne Vega, Shawn Colvin. Steve Forbert, John Gorka, Lucy Kaplansky, and Christine Lavin. The effort resulted in Fast Folk Musical Magazine and a series of recordings that ended up released by Smithsonian Folkways. I hung out at Hardy’s sessions off and on, tossing in a song or two on occasion in the late 90s. But my tunes were a bit too literal and conventional to get big thumbs-up responses. The more of this the better, and that’s why the annual FAWM monthlong songwriting slam is so great. There are thousands of participants, and the songs range across every possible genre and theme. Explore away! Here’s Burr Settles describing this year’s FAWM push: Given that I don’t have a day job now, financial support is appreciated if you can afford to help keep Sustain What going and open to all. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit revkin.substack.com/subscribe

    2 min
  5. FEB 6

    Caught in the Trump & Musk Flood Zone? Narrative Analyst Randy Olson Has Some Advice

    I’ll wager that most of you have already heard or read Ezra Klein’s powerful audio “Don’t Believe Him” manifesto examining Trump’s take on Steve Bannon’s longstanding “flood the zone” strategy designed to overwhelm media and institutional capacity to convey and challenge his unfolding demolition derby presidency. If not, here’s the captivating opening. But it’s vital to get past the initial statement about Bannon’s strategy. In his piece, Klein notes Trump is already getting caught up in his own flood tides, with initial overreaching steps already facing legal setbacks and more resistance likely. That may add up and stall Trump out in the long run, but in the short run substantial human harm is unfolding. Read Nicholas Kristof today for the impacts at the US Agency for International Development: The World’s Richest Men Take On the World’s Poorest Children. After watching Klein, I wondered what my old friend Randy Olson - a brutally honest communication strategist - would think about how the wide-field “flooding the zone” strategy relates to Trump’s superskill - holding to an almost primally simplistic story line. Listen to our pop-up Sustain What chat above and/or please share this post or share the webcast on X/Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn or YouTube. Olson began his professional life as a marine biologist, shifted to filmmaking and now mainly works with science-based organizations to improve their impact through refining their narrative strategies. He’s produced a batch of books that amount to workouts at what he calls The Narrative Gym. Here are just a few of the books and other references Olson cited or recommended in our conversation: * I brought up a new study showing a pattern of u-turns toward healthier democracy after autocrats take and then lose power (I’m planning a chat with the authors); Randy countered with a sobering December 2016 New York Times column by Eduardo Porter referencing The Great Leveler, a book by Walter Scheidel, a professor of history at Stanford, who found: From the Stone Age to the present, ever since humankind produced a surplus to hoard, economic development has almost always led to greater inequality. There is one big thing with the power to stop this dynamic, but it’s not pretty: violence. * He noted the relationship of the zone flooding strategy to the “Gish Gallop,” which emerged from the creationism arguments of Duane Gish. * Read The Economics of Attention - Style and Substance in the Age of Information, by Richard A. Lanham. * Read Neil Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business. In the short run, you might read the 2017 Guardian op-ed by Postman’s son Andrew Postman: “My dad predicted Trump in 1985 – it's not Orwell, he warned, it's Brave New World.” * Read Gary Keller’s bestseller The ONE Thing: The Surprisingly Simple Truth About Extraordinary Results, or watch the scene in the 1991 film “City Slickers” when the crusty cowboy played by Jack Palance tells Billy Crystal’s character about the importance of pursuing “one thing.” To sustain my Sustain What effort, consider becoming a paid subscriber if you can afford it. Here’s one of my earlier Sustain What chats with Randy: Is science communication really worse than it was 100 years ago? Can simplicity help? Click here for my Randy Olson coverage in The New York Times. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit revkin.substack.com/subscribe

    40 min
  6. 12/06/2024

    Clarifying Methane Sources and Solutions

    Here’s the video and audio podcast of my #SustainWhat show offering a valuable update on trends in emissions of heat-trapping methane and emerging science showing the tropics are the dominant driver of the recent rise in the flows of this potent greenhouse gas. Listen and share and weigh in. Background on my guests along with a batch of relevant links are in the “curtain raiser” post below. Here are some additional sources we touched on in the conversation that weren’t in my initial post: * Human activities now fuel two-thirds of global methane emissions (Global Carbon Project, R B Jackson et al 2024 Environ. Res. Lett. 19 101002) The distribution of emission changes from 2000 to 2020 by latitude emphasizes the tropics, which contribute an estimated ∼60%–70% of the total global change over the last two decades for both approaches (BU: 45 [29–68] Tg CH4 yr−1; TD: 36 [6–47] Tg CH4 yr−1) (table 2). Mid-latitudes are responsible for the additional 30%–40% increase in global emissions; in contrast, emissions from higher latitudes (60–90°N) are estimated to be stable or to have decreased slightly, attributable to slightly decreasing anthropogenic emissions (table 2). * Microbes, not fossil fuels, are behind recent methane surge - Climate.gov staff, Oct. 29, 2024 * Maine Farmers Receptive to Seaweed Feed - Survey highlights receptiveness of organic dairy farmers to feeding methane-reducing feeds * Atmospheric methane removal may reduce climate risks (Sam Abernethy and Robert B Jackson, Environmental Research Letters, April 12, 2024) Sustain What is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit revkin.substack.com/subscribe

    1h 3m

About

Sustain What? is a series of conversations, seeking solutions where complexity and consequence collide on the sustainability frontier. This program contains audio highlights from hundreds of video webcasts hosted by Andy Revkin. Revkin believes sustainability has no meaning on its own. The first step toward success is to ask: Sustain what? How? And for whom? revkin.substack.com

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