Task Cohesion: Managing a Larger Team in a Flatter Organization amidst a Climate of Uncertainty with Al and Leanne Elliott (1/2)

How can managers be effective when they are expected to manage larger teams? To strengthen relationships with team members and support team cohesion, start with task cohesion.

Al and Leanne Elliott, former guests and the hosts of Truth, Lies and Work join us to explain how uncertainties in the world have impacted business owners, entrepreneurs, and people managers. In episode 340, we explore the reasons behind industry trends of layoffs, flatter organizations, and larger teams. If you’re a manager in need of help or someone seeking to lead a team, Al and Leanne Elliott have practical tips to manage well in a challenging environment.

Original Recording Date: 07-12-2025

Topics – Welcome Back Al and Leanne Elliott, Uncertainty’s Impact on Current Trends, Keeping the Entrepreneurial Spirit, Organizational Flattening, Challenges to Effective Management of Larger Teams, Management and Coaching

2:35 – Welcome Back Al and Leanne Elliott

• Both Leanne Elliott and Al Elliott are back to join us for a special discussion today. They are the hosts of Truth, Lies & Work and have each been guests on the show in the past (but never at the same time).
  • To listen to the episodes featuring Al as a guest, check out:
    • Episode 235 – The Best Bad Option with Al Elliott (1/2)
    • Episode 236 – Having the Vision, Charting the Path, Removing the Blockers with Al Elliott (2/2)
  • To listen to the episodes featuring Leanne as a guest, check out:
    • Episode 237 – The Psychological Transition of Layoffs with Leanne Elliott (1/2)
    • Episode 238 – Managers as Culture Keepers with Leanne Elliott (2/2)

3:13 – Uncertainty’s Impact on Current Trends

• Our discussion with Al and Leanne is to revisit themes of job uncertainty and economic uncertainty and to look at some trends we’re seeing.
  • A few years ago, the job market was booming. Right now, we’re advising people in times of uncertainty. We knew Al and Leanne would have a unique perspective on this topic.
• We tend to have a US-centric view of things and may not have a global picture of economic uncertainty and job uncertainties. What perspective can Al and Leanne share in this regard?
  • Leanne says in the UK uncertainty is a great way to categorize the situation. Some companies are doing layoffs, but many are taking a pause. This pause could mean lack of growth, lack investment, or a slowing of revenue. People are definitely fearful.
  • Business owners in the UK are pursuing what’s called a lifestyle business – a business which provides a blend of the specific lifestyle and purpose that owners want.
    • “Rapid hypergrowth is no longer the number 1 priority.” – Leanne Elliott
  • Al says in the UK, upwards of 90% of people are employed by small businesses. Many people believe the labor government in the UK is not really doing the things necessary to stabilize commerce.
    • “There are big businesses who are frightened as in ‘I might lose my job when a new CEO comes in,’ but the smaller businesses with say 50, 60 employees are frightened going, ‘if I don’t get this right, I’m going to lose everything and everyone’s going to lose their jobs.’” – Al Elliott
  • Is the lifestyle business Leanne mentioned focused more on the business owner, or does it also include the lifestyle of company employees?
    • Business owners Leanne has talked to or heard of through colleagues are mindful of their employees, deciding not to take unnecessary risks like pursuing growth during times of uncertainty. Business owners are focusing on quality, efficiency, and automation right now.
    • In the UK specifically, there have been a number of employment laws made under the labor government which sound great but bring risk for businesses in their execution. Leanne shares some examples like rights to flexible working on day 1 and National Living Wage.
    • While the laws mentioned above do help employees, business owners hesitate when they are unclear on how to embed those laws in their business operations (i.e., lack of guidance, etc.). They might choose to employ more contractors instead of hiring new employees under these laws, for example.
    • Leanne thinks business owner decisions at present are being driven by uncertainty, ambiguity, and fear.

7:41 – Keeping the Entrepreneurial Spirit

• Does the fear Leanne mentioned crush the entrepreneurial spirit? Entrepreneurs may be leading some of these small businesses that they’ve founded.
  • This calls back to Al’s story in the episodes shared above.
  • “I think true entrepreneurs…they live for challenges. And when things are going well, that’s when they normally mess it up.” – Al Elliott
  • Al thinks entrepreneurs react well to challenges in the first 3-4 years of starting a business but may struggle to be effective beyond that. He feels the current climate is just another challenge to the entrepreneur.
  • Al highlights the UK’s IR35 and its rules for hiring contractors. As a result of legislation like this, entrepreneurs and business owners might find it simpler and less risky to hire contractors over full-time employees.
    • There was a trend of focusing on hiring full-time employees in the last 10 years, but that may be halted or turned in the other direction because of the current climate and additional governmental rules placed on hiring full-time employees.
    • Al highlights for us that in certain European countries, firing a full-time employee requires a business to pay the employee 6 months of salary.
  • In Al’s opinion, entrepreneurs are more optimistic people by nature, but the decision about how quickly to scale a business by hiring more people requires careful consideration due to the current climate we’ve discussed.
    • “I think it’s remembering that…globally and in the UK as well, it has been relentless for business owners since 2016…. There’s been so much disruption and so much change that I honestly think entrepreneurs, business leaders are exhausted. They’re burning out…. An entrepreneur wants to keep fighting. They want to keep going, but it’s how they invest their energy…. So, during this period where the business may be fairly stable, they’re finding other ways to fill that entrepreneurial need and that meaningful work they are currently lacking in a business that isn’t in a growth stage, which is hard for an entrepreneur.” – Leanne Elliott
    • Leanne mentions change of government in the UK, the pandemic, and other changes in the context of the impact to business leaders and entrepreneurs.
    • Business owners in the UK who have chosen the lifestyle business approach are spending more time on side hustles and diversifying what they are doing with their business. This is more about the individual business owner / entrepreneur than the organization as a whole.
• John asks Leanne and Al if the laws apply only to businesses of certain sizes? In the US, for example, certain laws might only apply once a business reaches a certain number of employees.
  • Leanne’s understanding is the size of the business does not matter, so the laws would apply as soon as the first employee is hired. It is a drastic shift and a high risk for small businesses, and they are choosing not to focus on growth right now.
  • John thinks in the US there is additional risk in growing a business past a certain size. Some owners may want to take lessons learned and start multiple businesses below that threshold to diversify instead of running just a single company. Differences in laws across countries and even states might create microclimates of opportunity for businesses (i.e. venue shopping).
  • Al says there are conditions that allow businesses to employ and fire people easily without having to pay a large severance upon separation from the company (i.e. contract employment). This can make entrepreneurs feel more at ease about recruiting people because it lowers risk.
  • Leanne thinks it is a fine balance. In the UK there used to be probationary periods for employees that would provide full benefits and rights at the end of that period, but now employees have the same rights on day 1 as employees with a long tenure at the company. There’s been this weird shift of power and rights between employers and employees over time (before, during, and after the pandemic).
  • Leanne highlights a conversation with psychologist Rose Soffel from Truth, Lies and Work about the trust crisis.
  • “We’ve had so much push and pull and power swings over the last year years… I think with the changes in laws, geopolitics…there’s so much conflict in every sense of the word… in society and in our workplaces. People are just lacking trust – trust in their bus