The Fall of Veii: Part I

396 BCE is finally here! Rome and Veii have been locked in a competition for space and resources for quite some time and it seems like the tide is about to turn. The year 396 BCE is perhaps one of the most significant years for Rome’s history in the early republic. Given the events at play, this episode is considering how the year begins and it might not be quite the thrills you might expect…

Episode 158 – The Fall of Veii – Part I

What’s going on with Rome’s magistrates?

The situation with Roman magistrates in 396 BCE is quite complicated. We spend some time considering some of the challenges we face with the evidence. There seems to have been some problems with the military tribunes which leads to a changing of the guard. There also seems to be great fondness for the plebeian military tribune with consular power, Publius Licinius Calvus Esquilinus, but is he really fit for public duties? We consider the details.

The challenges of our sources

While Livy is providing plenty of narrative material for 396 BCE, every other ancient source seems only interested in some of the big ticket events and not the finer details of family politics in Rome. How can we reconcile these different accounts? We’ll try our best!

Success is not assured…

Rome gets off to a bad start in 396 BCE with a botched Roman ambush led by Genucius and Titinius. After waiting so long with the siege business, it seems a couple of the military tribunes with consular power decide that a little bit of action might be preferable. But things do not go according to plan… it’s only a matter of time for panic to set in among the citizens.

Things to listen out for

• The gradual Etrurian retreat from Campania in favour of the north
• Some of the significant moments between Veii and Rome over the years including the challenges of the Fabian gens at Cremera (see Episode 82 – Fabian Demise), and the death of the king of Veii Lars Tolumnius (see Episode 129 – Lars Tolumnius and the Fate of Fidenae)
• The emphasis in the annalist tradition on the TEN years of conflict between Rome and Veii and the questions that might be asked about this
• The apparent lack of broader support for Veii from Etruscan city-states further north
• Rome’s fondness for building up their enemies in their histories and other written evidence
• Chronological issues with the source material? Shock! Horror!
• Does Livy have a penchant for family histories? Licinius Macer is worth a mention
• Periander as Greek inspiration for Calvus?
• Homeric parallels!
• Igor taking a short break

Our Players for 396 BCE

Military Tribunes with Consular Power

• Lucius Titinius L. f. M’. n. Pansa Saccus
• Publius Licinius P. f. P. n. Calvus Esquilinus (Mr Original Plebeian in the role according to Livy)
• Publius Maelius Sp. f. C. n. Capitolinus
• Quintus Manlius A. f. Cn. n. Vulso Capitolinus? (Pat)
• Gnaeus Genucius M. f. M. n. Augurinus
• Lucius Atilius L. f. L. n. Priscus

Dictator

• Marcus Furius L. f. Sp. n. Camillus (Pat)

Master of the Horse

• Publius Cornelius P. f. M. n. Maluginensis (Pat)

Interreges

• Lucius Valerius (Potitus) (Pat)
• Quintus Servilius Fidenas (Pat)
• Marcus Furius Camillus (Pat)

Our Sources

• Dr Rad reads Livy, 5.18.2-12
• Dr G reads Dionysius of Halicarnassus 12.13-16 and 13.1-3; Plutarch Life of Camillus 5-8; Diodorus Siculus 14.90.1; 14.93.2-3; Valerius Maximus 1.5.2; 1.8.3; Pliny Natural History 33.111; Appian Ital. 8; Florus 1.17; Aulus Gellius Attic Nights 17.21; Eutropius 1.20; [Aurelius Victor] De virus illustribus 23; Augustine The City of God 2.17; Orosius 2.19.1-4; Zonaras 7.21
• Bradley, G. 2020. Early Rome to 290 BC: The Beginnings of the City and the Rise of the Republic (Edinburgh University Press).
• Broughton, T. R. S., Patterson, M. L. 1951. The Magistrates of the Roman Republic Volume 1: 509 B.C. – 100 B.C. (The American Philological Association)
• Cornell, T. J. 1995. The Beginnings of Rome: Italy and Rome from the Bronze Age to the Punic Wars (c. 1000-264 BC) (Taylor & Francis)
• Forsythe, G. 2006. A Critical History of Early Rome: From Prehistory to the First Punic War (University of California Press) 
• Lomas, Kathryn (2018). The Rise of Rome: From the Iron Age to the Punic Wars. Cambridge: Harvard University Press.
• Ogilvie, R. M. 1965. A Commentary on Livy: Books 1-5 (Clarendon Press). 
• Raaflaub, K. A. 2006. Social struggles in archaic Rome: new perspectives on the conflict of the orders (2nd ed). (Wiley).
• Smith, C. 2019. ‘Furius Camillus and Veii’, in Taboli, J., Cerasuolo, O. (eds.) Veii (University of Texas Press), 219-224.

Sound Credits

Our music is composed by the amazing Bettina Joy de Guzman. Additional sound effects from the BBC Sound Library,

Partial Reconstruction of a Temple at Veii – Photo credit to ArtSupp.

Automated Transcript

Lighted edited for our wonderful Australian accents.

Dr Rad 0:15
Welcome to the Partial Historians.

Dr G 0:19
We explore all the details of ancient Rome.

Dr Rad 0:23
Everything from political scandals, the love affairs, the battled wage and when citizens turn against each other. I’m Dr Rad

Dr G 0:33
And I’m Dr G, we consider Rome as the Romans saw it, by reading different authors from the ancient past and comparing their stories.

Dr Rad 0:44
Join us as we trace the journey of Rome from the founding of the city. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of the Partial Historians. I am one of your hosts, Dr Rad

Dr G 1:05
and I am Dr G and I am so excited for this episode, because we are hitting a bonanza of a year. It is 396 BCE and oh boy. After a long time of not a lot happening, except people sitting around in a siege. I think something might be about to happen, Dr Rad.

Dr Rad 1:26
I think you might be right. Dr G, oh, it’s been 10 long, wintry years.

Dr G 1:31
Yeah, look, I’ve grown a whole fur coat in that period of time, and it’s not going away.

Dr Rad 1:38
Oh, Dr G, this is a big year. And you know, I was saying to you the other day off mic, that it feels a bit like our podcast journey sometimes oddly mirrors that of ancient Rome, because during the early republic, due to locations of recordings being switched around and issues with microphones, etc, etc, we had some ups and downs in terms of our experimentation with the show, and I feel like we’ve got it all sorted out just in time for 396 which you could kind of see as one of the most important years in early Republican history, I think.

Dr G 2:16
This is a massive time, so we’re building the hype, and I don’t think that this is something that we’re over hyping at all. This is actually going to be an exceptional time in Rome’s history, and the Romans know it as well. Just to put that out there, maybe a little bit too much, they are well aware, and when they write their histories about this time period, there is a great consistency to the sorts of things that they talk about. So I’m looking forward to delving into that. But perhaps we should do a bit of a where are we at recap, before we dive in.

Dr Rad 2:54
You read my mind, I was going to say I know we did talk. I know that every time Veii has come up, we have talked about the relationship between Rome and Veii, but this is the last time that we’re probably going to really need to do this, and it is the end of the big conflict, the big feud. So I do think a recap is in order.

Dr G 3:17
Veii? Who are you and why do you exist?

Dr Rad 3:22
Why are you so far south? Why can’t you be further north, like all the rest of the Etruscan cities?

Dr G 3:27
Well, the thing about Eturia as a kind of a group of people is that they used to be much further south than they appear to be by the time we get into Roman history proper. So as far as we’re aware, there’s good evidence for the Villanovan culture, which is the precursor to Etruscan culture. Archeologically, as far down as Campania, which is, you know, the Amalfi Coast, Naples, Positano, Pompeii, Herculaneum…

Dr Rad 3:57
All the gorgeous places to go on holiday.

Dr G 3:59
Exactly. And so Etruria actually extended right through the region where Rome has sort of popped up like a little city state mushroom. And now we’re dealing with what is a legacy of kind of a fallout of many centuries of Etruscan retreat out of the south and the more substantial investment that they’ve had in their northern places of influence, so all the way up to what is now modern Milan, for instance.

Dr Rad 4:30
Yes, this is true, and we have seen some really interesting dynamics b