The Human Risk Podcast Human Risk

How is technology impacting money laundering? On this episode, I'm welcoming investigative journalist Geoff White back onto the show.

In 2022, Geoff joined me to talk about his book and podcast The Lazarus Heist, the story of how North Korean hackers launched an attack on Sony Pictures in 2014.

This time, he's back to talk about his brand new book 'Rinsed' which looks at money laundering in a digital world. 

In it, Geoff explores how thieves who steal digital money that’s highly traceable, launder it so that they can make use of it? 

In a wide-ranging disucssion, we also talk about Geoff’s work as an investigative reporter — how does he get his information, what are the risks in doing what he does and you’ll hear the astonishing reasons why people you might not expect would want to talk to him, actually do.

Links
Hear Geoff's previous appearance on the show talking aboiut The Lazarus Heist:
 https://www.humanriskpodcast.com/geoff-white-on-the-lazarus-heist/

His BBC World podcast of the same name - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvg9/episodes/downloads

Learn more about his new book 'Rinsed' - https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455031/rinsed-by-white-geoff/9780241624838

Geoff's website - https://geoffwhite.tech/

Timestamped Notes (generateed by AI)

[00:00:00] - Introduction
Christian welcomes Geoff White back to the podcast.Geoff's new book "Rinsed" and updates since his last appearance.[00:01:00] - North Korea's Cyber Activities
Discussion on North Korea's cyber operations and the Axie Infinity hack.The scale and speed of the $625 million cryptocurrency theft.[00:02:00] - Money Laundering Techniques
The importance of money laundering in cybercrime.How hackers collaborate with financial experts to launder money.[00:03:00] - Evolution of Money Laundering
The shift from traditional cash-based laundering to digital methods.Examples of how different criminal groups use technology to launder money.[00:04:00] - Money Laundering as a Service
The concept of "Money Laundering as a Service."Comparison with "Hacking as a Service."[00:05:00] - Classic Money Laundering Stages
Explanation of the three stages: placement, layering, and integration.Historical context with examples from the 1980s.[00:09:00] - Digital Era of Money Laundering
Challenges of tracing digital money.The global nature of digital money laundering and its implications.[00:10:00] - International and Technological Aspects
How criminals use technology to launder money across borders.The role of cryptocurrency in modern money laundering.[00:13:00] - Role of Financial Institutions
The involvement of traditional financial institutions in money laundering.How compliance teams can combat these activities.[00:14:00] - Investigating Money Laundering
Geoff's research methods and challenges in uncovering these stories.The importance of firsthand accounts and digital breadcrumbs.[00:17:00] - Notable Cases
Key cases from Geoff's book, including the Axie Infinity hack and others.The significance of technology in these crimes.[00:20:00] - Interaction with Law Enforcement
Experiences with law enforcement agencies during investigations.The case of the Instagram influencer Hushpuppi.[00:23:00] - Personal Safety and Cyber Risk
Geoff's approach to managing personal cyber risk.The importance of...

How can organisations get the best out of the humans they employ and empower them to help deliver desired outcomes? The answer is by focusing on the decisions taken that are critical in determining whether or not the right outcome is achieved.
 
On this episode, I speak to Sarah Abramson, Head of Marketing at Acteon, a communication and learning agency in Cambridge, UK. 
 
I came across Acteon last year after they approached me to be the keynote speaker at their annual event called, appropriately enough, Speak To The Human.    
 
I had such a brilliant time and met so many amazing people — some of whom have been guests on the show, links below —  that not only did I do what keynote speakers hardly ever do and stick around for the rest of the day after I’d done my presentation, but I’m also going back to this year’s event as an attendee.
 
It’s taking place this week, and since Speak To The Human is a very small invite-only event, you can’t buy tickets, and it isn’t recorded or streamed, I thought I’d ask Sarah, as event organizer, to join me on a special episode of this show to share some of the magic that grabbed my attention.
 
In our discussion, we talk about the event, how Sarah goes about curating it and some of the unusual elements she incorporates to make it less a conference and more of a gathering of itnersting people.   What she has to say is a fascinating blueprint for thinking about live events in a post-pandemic world.
 
Before we get to that, Sarah talks about Acteon's work — you’ll hear some fascinating case studies of human risk-related problems being solved creatively.   She tells me about the importance of understanding human behaviour — not the theory of what people should do, but the realities of what they actually do — how storytelling can help effective communication and how to create belonging and connection within organisations. 
 
And we hear about Sarah’s passion for marathon running and coaching, exploring the parallels between athletic training that seeks to get teh best out of individual runners and getting the best of of employees at work


Key Topics:
Introduction to Sarah Abramson and Acteon [00:00:00]Sarah’s role at Acteon and her background in marketing communications.Overview of Acteon’s work in communication and learning.

Translating Strategy into Actions [00:02:00]The challenge of making boardroom strategies actionable for employees.Examples of how Acteon supports clients in implementing strategies.

Moments that Matter [00:04:00]Identifying critical actions that significantly impact strategic success.Case study on health and safety compliance in care homes.

Building a Positive Remote Work Culture [00:05:00]Strategies for maintaining company culture in a hybrid work environment.The importance of inclusive and high-quality hybrid meetings.

Behavioural Science Framework: COM-B [00:07:00]Explanation of the COM-B model: Capability, Motivation, and Opportunity.How Acteon uses this model to influence employee behaviour.

Storytelling in Communication [00:26:00]The power of storytelling to engage and influence employees.Examples of effective storytelling in corporate settings.

Sarah’s Experience in Marathon Running and Coaching [00:45:00]Insights from Sarah’s dual role as a marathon runner and coach.Parallels between athletic training and corporate behaviour.

Parental Insights into Human Behaviour [00:34:00]How parenting skills translate into professional skills.The...

What might the future of society look like & how can we get there?

On this episode, I’m speaking to a best-selling author who has written an extraordinary book about her vision for the future.
 
Unusually, the book is a work of fiction for the show, but the issues it addresses are very relevant to Human Risk.
 
My guest is Manda Scott, who began her career as a veterinary surgeon and is now an award-winning writer and podcaster.
 
Her new book, Any Human Power, has the subtext Dream deeply. Rise up strong. Change is coming and is centred around a protagonist named Lan, a woman on her deathbed who makes a promise to her grandson, Finn. Realising he is struggling with the idea of living in a world without her, she vows to be there for him even after her death. As she passes away, she steps into a shamanic realm known as the void, where she learns to navigate and influence the timelines of the future.
 
Lan's journey is marked by her attempts to keep her promise to Finn, acting from beyond the grave to guide and protect him. The narrative explores the complex interplay between life and death, human connection, and the power of shamanic practices. Lan discovers that she can impact the physical world through the digital realm, using online gaming to connect with Finn and help him in his moments of need.

During our discussion; we explore Manda’s career, what drives her writing and the topics she explores in Any Human Power.
 
Links to relevant topics

Manda’s author’s website: https://mandascott.co.uk/

Her podcast ‘Accidental Gods’: https://accidentalgods.life/

Bayo Akomolafe - The Time's Are Urgent — Let's Slow Down:
https://www.bayoakomolafe.net/post/the-times-are-urgent-lets-slow-down


Francis Weller on the Trauma Culture vs Initiation Culture: https://medium.com/best-of-kosmos-journal/deschooling-dialogues-on-initiation-trauma-and-ritual-with-francis-weller-3f360fe26563
 
The evolution of Audrey Tang https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/27/taiwan-civic-hackers-polis-consensus-social-media-platform
 
How Audrey’s Tang crowdsourced government  https://www.globalgovernmentforum.com/the-wisdom-of-crowds-an-interview-with-taiwans-unorthodox-digital-minister/

Wealth Supremacy by Marjorie Kelly https://uk.bookshop.org/p/books/wealth-supremacy-how-the-extractive-economy-and-the-biased-rules-of-capitalism-drive-today-s-crises-marjorie-kelly/7452410?ean=9781523004775
 
The ‘Bankless’ podcast with Eliezer Yudkowsky  http://podcast.banklesshq.com/159-were-all-gonna-die-with-eliezer-yudkowsky
 br...

Why is misinformation so prevalent, and what can we do about it? On this episode, I’m speaking with Alex Edmans, a London Business School Finance Professor who has written a book called  ‘May Contain Lies: How Stories, Statistics, and Studies Exploit Our Biases and What We Can Do About It’.

Alex’s areas of focus are purposeful business, sustainable investing, corporate governance, and behavioural finance. He’s also very prepared to use his platform to challenge people who propagate inaccuracies or misleading information.
 
In our discussion, we explore why he wrote his book,  the impact of cognitive biases on decision-making, and practical solutions to navigate a world rife with misinformation. 

You’ll hear about the pitfalls of relying on research produced with an agenda in mind and why we need to be wary when we’re told that a particular academic establishment has published a piece of research. 

Alex also explains why the popular belief that if you spend 10,000 hours on a particular activity, you’ll have to be skilled at it might not be all it seems and why popular management mantras like ‘start with why’ aren’t as effective as those who propose them might like us to believe.
   
He talks about his own experiences and why his judgement has been just as vulnerable to biases as ours. Find out why cognitive diversity matters and why we shouldn’t listen to everyone’s views.


Timestamp Highlights: (Produced by AI)
[00:00:00] IntroductionChristian introduces Professor Alex Edmans and discusses his impact on social media and public discourse.[00:01:00] Motivation for Writing "May Contain Lies"Alex explains his transition from academic research to writing about misinformation and the importance of discerning data accuracy over personal biases.[00:02:00] Cognitive Biases and Their ImpactDiscussion on confirmation bias and black-and-white thinking and how they affect our perception of data and evidence.[00:04:00] Personal Experiences with BiasAlex shares personal anecdotes illustrating how even experts can fall prey to biases and misinformation.[00:08:00] The 10,000 Hours RuleA critical look at Malcolm Gladwell's popular concept and its misinterpretations.[00:13:00] Research and Decision-MakingThe importance of scrutinising academic research and the pitfalls of relying solely on endorsements and institutional affiliations.[00:21:00] Statistical LiteracyAlex emphasises the need for statistical literacy from an early age and practical ways to teach it.[00:23:00] Balancing Data and AnecdotesHow to effectively use stories and data to make informed decisions.[00:25:00] Encouraging Cognitive DiversityThe value of different perspectives in decision-making processes and organisational settings.[00:29:00] Flaws in Consultant ResearchCritique of research produced by consultancies like McKinsey and the difference between advocacy and genuine scientific inquiry.[00:36:00] Limits of Cognitive DiversityDiscussing when it might be necessary to draw the line in accepting diverse viewpoints, especially in the context of misinformation.[00:41:00] Societal Solutions to MisinformationProposals for improving transparency in endorsements and the peer review process to combat misinformation.[00:46:00] Role of GatekeepersThe diminishing role of traditional gatekeepers in the age of social media and the importance of self-regulation and critical thinking.[00:55:00] Ethical...

What is the Rainbow Ceiling, and why does it matter?
 
On this episode, I’m speaking to the author of a new book that explains the significance and the ways we can help to remove it.
 
A rainbow ceiling is similar to a glass ceiling, a metaphor for the various structural barriers that hold down women or minority groups as they try to climb the career ladder and prevent them from reaching top jobs—but applied to LGBTQ+ people.

It’s a rainbow partly because it symbolises LGBTQ+ people but also because the concept of the arc of a rainbow suggests that different people are affected in different ways.
 
If, like me, you’re straight, you might not ever have given much thought to what it’s like to be LGBTQ+ and why those who are can find life more difficult.

My guest, Dr Layla McCay, is the author of a brand new book called ‘Breaking the Rainbow Ceiling: How LGBTQ+ people can thrive and succeed at work’
 
As you’ll hear, although this is ostensibly a book to help LGBTQ+ people, it’s also incredibly insightful for everyone else.
 
That is why I wanted to get Layla onto the show. In reading it, I had some revelations: I recognised that I didn’t really understand some of the challenges faced by LGBTQ+ people. 
 
I figured that if that applied to me, it might apply to others as well. But my revelations went further than a lack of understanding.
 
I also came to realise that I had often inadvertently either helped to foster a work environment that wasn’t as inclusive as it could have been or not done simple things that I could have done to make it.
 
I think inclusion is important, not just because it’s the right thing to do but also because by excluding people, we’re not getting the best out of everyone or the cognitive diversity we really need.

Topics

On the show, we explore:
What the Rainbow Ceiling is and how it manifests itself;

How everyday business practices, such as business travel, pose unique challenges and discomfort for LGBTQ+ professionals;Why many LGBTQ+ people are forced to go ‘back into the closet’ at work, and what impact that has;The challenges of ‘coming out’ at work;

How policies can unintentionally exclude LGBTQ+ people, and what we can do to make them more inclusive;

The importance of visible symbols of support; the transformative power of LGBTQ+ visibility in leadership; And much, much more.

Resources
Layla’s book “Breaking The Rainbow Ceiling’: https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/breaking-the-rainbow-ceiling-9781399410762/
 
Layla on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/LaylaMcCay
 
Her NHS profile: https://www.nhsconfed.org/people/dr-layla-mccay
 
For more on what LGBTQ+ means:  https://www.verywellmind.com/what-does-lgbtq-mean-5069804

A crash course on LGBTQ+: https://www.cps.edu/globalassets/cps-pages/services-and-supports/health-and-wellness/healthy-cps/healthy-environment/lgbtq-supportive-environments/key-terms-for-understanding-lgbtq-identities.pdf

What can we learn from artists about decision-making?  More than you might think.
We often see decision-making in binary terms and whether decisions are good or bad.  But what if they’re more subjective and akin to the way an artist looks at the world?  That’s what my guest explores in her new book.
 
That guest is Elspeth Kirkman, Chief Programme Officer at the innovation agency Nesta and a Visiting Senior Research Fellow at King's College London's Policy School and Exeter University's Business School.  She works at the intersection of design, data, and experimentation to solve societal problems.
 
Elspeth’s book ‘Decisionscape’ explores how the decisions we make are influenced by a variety of factors, many of which are personal to each of us.
 
In our discussion, we explore:
Elspeth’s career and work;

What Decisionscapes are and how using an artistic lens can help us to understand how and why we make decisions;

How factors like social capital can lead people to make seemingly counter-intuitive decisions;

Parallels between the creative process in writing and decision-making;

the impact of everyday choices on life's narrative and long-term happiness;

the significance of small, habitual decisions in shaping our lives;

the concept of counterfactual thinking and finding contentment in reality;

the enjoyment of making decisions, even without complete information;

why embracing imperfection in decision-making can help us live more satisfied livesand much, much more.
 
Links to topics we discuss during the show

The Green Day concert where the audience sings Bohemian Rhapsody - https://youtu.be/cZnBNuqqz5g?si=SSkpKTIZ1OVv4qfn
 
Oliver Burkeman’s Book ‘Four Thousand Weeks’ -  https://www.oliverburkeman.com/books
 
Pablo Picasso’s Picture of a Bull - https://drawpaintacademy.com/the-bull/
 
Links to Elspeth and her work

Decisionscape - https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262048941/decisionscape/
 
Behavioural Insights, the book she co-authored with Michael Hallsworth - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/647522/behavioral-insights-by-michael-hallsworth-and-elspeth-kirkman/
 
Elspeth’s work at Nesta - https://www.nesta.org.uk/team/elspeth-kirkman/
 
Her profile on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/elspethkirkman
 
Twitter/X - https://twitter.com/Karminker
 
Previous episodes of the show

I have featured topics related to decision-making in many episodes of the show, which are available at www.humanriskpodcast.com.
 
Two recent episodes of particular relevance are my discussions with:
 
Dr Melina Moleskis -  a...